Dr. Harley's advice was to Plan A your wife without lovebusting.

What you have described above is what stinks about Plan A when a spouse is in an active affair. It is hugely disrespectful to and difficult for a betrayed spouse.

From what you have written here, it does not sound as if you have the emotional strength to Plan A. I can empathize with that. In and around planning little vacations, time away, dinners out, I was really slamming the DJs and AOs in the days after D-day and before NC. And then some for months after that, when H was indulging in trickle truth.

Have you listened to the radio show several times to really get the gist of what Dr. Harley was telling you? Are you planning to follow his advice or are you going to follow your own path? If so, do you have a plan for what you will do?

AM

bill,

I think you are expecting to much too soon....this is a long road, remember the first word, Patience.........this takes time you have to show your wife that you can change and that the things she might be afraid of are things that you can change and be open about.........
Think about the dogs if it were me I would think kindly about the help and I think that is what she needs to think right now......
I know it seems like you are doing the work right now but that is where it starts, one person puts out some kind of olive branch and it slowly starts from there, does it matter where it starts or how?
A new relationship, a better one takes time, you can't just jump back into the one you had, that didn't work...take the time to rebuild a better one, this time enjoy the process............
do this with compassion, understanding and let her see the man of her dreams.....you will see if you put yourself in the best light she will notice.........
Right now she is still mad but she loves you Bill, wait for her........
She knows you are fighting for her.........every woman loves that, but it has to come across gently.........
jessi

AM, Jessi

I'm not a vet, but I disagree. Taking on the dog care is NOT meeting his wife's EN, it's enabling her in her waywardness.

She says "I'm done, but btw will you take the dogs while I'm out of town?" Uh-uh.

Freefall,

Did you listen to Bill's session with Dr. Harley on the radio show earlier this week?

AM

We had an issue with our Daughter yesterday that required an intervention.....this was AFTER the Wife told me "I'm done!"
We had lunch with our daughter and intervened as Loving Parents.......and after lunch.....I took the Ladies to the car......bent over towards the Wife and she put her arms around my shoulders for a moment.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this.......but I think Love is "Still in there"!!
Gotta give her the time......Thanks Jessi.......Thanks again!

OK: I left a text message and phone message offering to watch the dogs.......but it seems humiliating.

AM,

Yes, I listened to the show when Bill was on. Dr. Harley talked about opening the door and allowing WW to talk about the issues in the marriage that led to her affair.

I don't think Dr. Harley was suggesting that Bill dogsit for WW, who has left the home, has rebuffed Bill's attempts to reconcile, and wants to go away on a trip. I don't see this as an EN for "financial support." I see it as enabling WW's decision to move out of the home.

Bill DID step up when the daughter had an issue and supported his WW and his daughter. This I DO see as fulfilling an EN--the need to be emotionally available and supportive. Bill gave his wife and daughter the strong message that he wants them all to be a united family and that he's there for them. That should earn him some love bank points.

One thing I've been thinking about is how Bill's wife must have felt emotionally after her cancer and hysterectomy. In addition to the physical trauma of it all, I imagine it was also very emotionally traumatic. She may have felt that she lost her "womanliness" and needed validation that she was still attractive as a woman, which could have been at least part of the impetus for the affair. . .not that this is justification.

I totally agree with Dr. Harley that Bill should continue to try and engage her in discussion of what she needs and wants in the marriage, but it is very difficult when she is not living at home and rebuffs his overtures for reconciliation.

The wife NEVER emotionally processed the cancer, the surgery OR the hormone imbalance that resulted from the hysterectomy.
If I attempted to broach the topic I could see the tears begin but she would FORCE them back EVERY TIME!
She's a powderkeg emotionally.....and will NOT admit it.

I don't think Dr. Harley was advocating affair talk. My understanding was that Bill make himself be an attractive alternative to the other man, be the better choice. Talking about things that make her feel bad are enemies of good conversation and don't fill a love bank. Supporting her with the daughter would contribute to the love and bank. Offering to watch the dogs couple also do the same.

Plan A stinks. Dr. Harley advises that women stay in Plan A about three weeks. He also says that men generally can handle a lot longer period of time. If a man can't deal with Plan A and is losing too much love for the WW, then Dr. Harley recommends Plan B. Bill, if it is too much, adjust your plan. But, have a plan.

I understand about the surgery. I had cancer twice, had a hysterectomy and am on hormone replacement therapy (I will fight for my pills until I die). It is tough stuff, physically and emotionally. For years, every time I had a small change in physical status - could not run as fast one day, etc, I thought I was getting sick again. And during my H's A, I most definitely felt physically unwomanly. Like almost everything, those feelings do get better with time.

AM

Of course dog-sitting could be seen as meeting the emotional need of financial support if her only other choice was to board the dogs. It also meets her need for domestic support. Bill, you really should go by Dr. Harley's advice versus the advice of a new poster. Afterall, Dr. Harley is the expert here.

It sounds like the episode with your daughter made some huge love bank deposits. Go you! Was this AFTER you agreed to dog sit?

Probably both of you are emotional powderkegs, given the situation.

A hysterectomy, not to mention the possibility of dying from cancer, may have left your wife feeling very isolated. Clearly she feels very strong emotions surrounding the events. Empathy, support, and reassurance that she is still the woman of your dreams may be something she very much needs from you, even if she cannot express her emotions to you about the cancer, surgery, and hormonal issues.

She may have been afraid of the hormone replacement therapy because of fear that it might make her more susceptible to other forms of cancer. Perhaps she could speak with her gynecologist about the risks vs. benefits of the treatment. More than anything, she probably needs reassurance that you accept her as she is.

The request to dog sit was AFTER the Daughter intervention.....I initially refused, but sent some text and phone messages this morning again offering to watch the dogs......the wife turned it into an opportunity to manipulate the situation....I kept telling her that last night when I refused to "sit" the dogs I was just emotionally exhausted from the day and have a clearer head today and will be glad to have them.
The Wife used that as a chance to manipulate the situation and try to guilt trip me......tonight? No dogs in the kennel.
It was her choice.....I tried to make it right.

I agree......maybe Plan B is the best choice right now?!?


I have CONSTANTLY reinforced that she is STILL the woman of my Dreams!!!!......She is blind to it.


I said EXACTLY that in my card and letter that was sent to her......she told me "Don't send me any more letters."
So what else can I do?.......NOTHING gets through to her.
What else can I do now besides Plan B?
I'm emotionally exhausted today!!!

Perhaps she had already made other plans for the dogs after you turned her down. You did tell her no, originally. For you to be so in love with this woman you sure do try to make her out to be a real b**ch on this thread. I understand she is the WW and you are the BH, but if she is such a b**ch, why do you want her back? For some reason, I think there is more to this story.

bill,
Okay the dog thing didn't work out, could be a combination of reasons she put them in a kennel.
She is mad you didn't agree right away so she is going to show you she doesn't need you, she is mad remember.

Okay don't send her any more letters, just remember the hug around your shoulders, you are right the love is still in there, but right now she doesn't trust anything or anyone........that is going to take some time....
Just remember you are doing what you need to do to save your marriage and fight for what is yours, the only way you can do this is soften her view of you, be the man she fell in love, don't do anything that will trigger a negative response...
let her miss you, when she does she will remember the Bill she fell in love with remember this isn't about being right and being the way you used to be....she is looking for different responses and things she can believe in. She wants you and your life but not the way it was pre affair........this is what you are trying to fix and show her........
so if handling things differently then you would have in the past and being more compassionate or understanding then that is what you need to do.
You can calmly state what you need as well for this marriage to work but you can also tell her you are willing to learn and change and mean it Bill.....
You will see if you are what she needs eventually you will be the one she needs and wants in her life in a new and postive loving way.......
It starts with you.......even if it's only a minute a day for awhile.........
Dr. Phil always says would you rather be right or happy........don't try to control her or anything she does, clean up your side of the street, she will notice.....
If you truly mean that you want her to be happy then you will let her figure out herself that she wants to be on YOUR side of that street with you.......
When someone is afraid of health issues they just want to know that they are not alone and that they have whatever support they need and that someone cares they are going through something difficult........
My husband had his affair while I was on a chemo drug and because of the marriage being in such an awful spot, going through all that alone and not having him there to lean on was a very painful part of all of it for me.......
It would have been easier for me to know I wasn't alone because that is how I felt..........
pay attention to what she needs from now on, listen to what she says, ask questions and then pay attention to those needs.....
right now give her time to process what has become of her life, be the friend she needs right now and don't make life more difficult for her, but be honest tell her if something doesn't feel right for you, and explain why.........
you two need to learn to understand each other again.......
jessi

Hi Bill, I'm in the same boat as you. I'v been married 24 years and WW has had (1) 8 year long affair and (3) 1 night stands 2 with the same guy. It took me months to get this out of her. In the end I still want to be a family. NO DOORMAT though.

I thought about a post-nup and more counseling (which she has agreed to). But the reality is, we BH's are adults who know what we want. I don't want my relationship to become a business arrangement, what's the point?

As for the WW and her willingness to reconcile, well that came after months of gutwrenching talks and counseling. Now we are at the point where we are spending quality time and taking baby steps. The pain is still very raw and the emotions out of whack. But even the small gestures add up.

I'd consider watching the dogs if there was an offer in compromise to do something that you would like. have movie date or attend a concert etc. The important thing is to make those baby steps move forward.

Love is a crazy drug, just like infidelity, the places our hearts and minds can go, keep us spinning. Focus on the important things, that's the glue that binds us in the end.

BH 47
WW 46

M 24 years ,(25 in 2-12, what shall we celebrate?)
WW Affairs: (Discovered between 2-11 and 8-11)
#1 1988 (co-worker, 2 times)
#2 1990-1993,1997-2002 (same guy, co-worker)
#3 2004 (anonymous pick-up at a bar)
Status: Rebuilding 1 baby-step at a time.

Hmmm, I thought you had just sent WW a card saying "I love you. Let's try again." If you went into the whole history of your marriage and told her what you think she did wrong (ie., not processing her emotions regarding battle with cancer, surgery, etc.) I understand better why she rebuffed you.

You need to listen to her emotional needs, not tell her what they are. And, of course, she needs to listen to yours, as well. It's difficult to do a Plan A when you're not living together.

Just brainstorming. Could you try a coffee date once a week, or a walk? Something time limited, non threatening? When the simplest conversation becomes so emotionally charged, it's difficult to get anywhere. If she'll agree to the "date," start out light. No affair talk. Something pleasant for both of you: Favorite memories from the marriage. Dreams for the future. One week Ten things you love about each other. Next week five things you wish the other person would do for you. Set the topic in advance if you can so neither of you feels ambushed. Ask her what she would like to talk about. Doesn't really matter what you talk about; the idea is just to get you talking again without tripping each other's triggers.

And I need to accept that.....just accept that!


Thanks Jessi......THANK YOU!

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WAIT A MINUTE...let me clarify please....I didn't go into the History of our Marriage.....was just relaying that to the forum.
She's pretty darned mad.....got to give it time.
But NO......I didn't rehash the Marriage or her issues.
I stayed positive.....and was trying to deposit Love Units....but I STILL do dumb stuff sometimes like refusing the dog-sitting.
Right now the WW is ANGRY!.......she is so SHUT DOWN.....and will not hear 1 word I say.....that was obvious.
Going to give it some time......work with my Counselor......stay close to my Daughter........keep up with the In-laws who are on OUR side.
I'M NOT GIVING UP!!!

I guess I misunderstood your post, Bill. Sorry. Getting through this IS emotionally exhausting. Glad you have the support of your IC, daughter and in-laws. If you can't work on the relationship right now, concentrate on your own goals. Give yourself permission for some R&R so you're not dwelling on what you can't change right now. Take good care of yourself.

Bill, It seems like all waywards are just mad and angry people. They need to blame others and are not ready to look at themselves.

As far as the dog sitting...if it wasn't that she would have found something else to be angry about. That's where she is right now...

Like Dr. Harley says.....this is the WORST time of my without exception!!.......Dr. Harley says his clients say that situations like this are worse than losing a child......well, I was 18 years old when my Father killed my mother and then committed suicide....and THIS is a worse emotional battle for me! THANK YOU all the MB's here and the Harleys for your guidance and support!


THAT's TRUE!!
At our Daughters intervention on Saturday I could see that my Wife had a "Mad the entire damned World" look on her face when she was in her own thoughts.
But I AM SURE CRAZY IN LOVE WITH HER!!!
There IS another wonderful woman in there......the wonderful woman I fell in Love with......the wonderful woman I married!
Patience!......right Jessi?