Yeah, this topic has my name all over it. Not the 3-some thing, the work thing, lol. Hbd, my thread "duped" has my long hard battle with just this, if you have a few days to read it.

CWMI -- and...the first time I've ever seen you post on SAA forum!

Hot issue for me, too.

Sorry to TJ.

No, my wife does not work outside of our home at this time, but she would certainly be offended if I was engaging in recreation with women I work with, and for that reason, I do not do it.

Kerala,

I am offended by the implication that Prisca or Markos may not get the �real world� or are responding in �cutesie� terms.

There is NOTHING cutesie about establishing boundaries for after hours work events. I attend my own company trips and events, I sponsor customer events, and I also arrange and host after-hours events. Any event that I have a hand in always includes spouses or guests. And, any event that I am mandated to attend until 10:00 pm or later, I do as a part of my job, but I run..not walk...but, run as nothing business related happens after 10:00 pm.. Period.

I don't want to see what happens, nor do I want to participate in other idiot behavior. Does everyone behave badly? Gosh no. I posted to CWMI last year that we have a �club� of those that just disappear. Some of us go to our rooms, some go to spend the night/time with their husbands or wives, some of break off into different �safer� groups, but we all know who we are. Just like we all know who to avoid.

Any company that does not allow spouses to attend is not a company worth working for. Period. Mine does, and we charge for that which is fair to pay for food/drink/general headcount. NEVER do we do �team building� crap after hours or even during meetings. NEVER do we do �strategy� crap after hours. These are all code words for �save money� and �tax deduction�. I set these things up and have for over 20 years...I know.

Sure, to tell you boss that you're family is more important than a mandatory meeting until midnight might be awkward for about 10 seconds. ? But, not if you've got a newborn, or an ill family member, or a kid that needs help with homework via SKYP...or if YOU are sick...

Not one person is saying one cannot or should not attend a regular meeting. But, to imply that the �real� world has to include IB because it's expected for work reasons is insane. And, to imply that anyone not in your �real� world is misinformed is also ludicrous.

It's 2011, not the 50s.

You crack me up, David. I also hate whiny people. And somewhere in there, I "get" you.

I think what you mean about the whining is that you don't want to have to come back to work after one of these events and have to listen to the others griping about how "they" participated, and "YOU got out of it". People like this somehow expect an explanation from you, and while you can deal with their whining, you just do not want to have to deal with all of their discussion about your life and why you did not go.

I deal with this at work as well. I am definitely NOT a social events person. I do not "do" baby showers, wedding showers, and all that yadda-yadda stuff. Drives me batty. I also don't do the company parties, the dinners, the other stuff they just insist is important. When we travel to conferences, they all go out to these dinners and comedy clubs and all these places as a group. I stay and read in the peace and quiet of my hotel room, where I can Google the latest neuro text, or really delve into the linguistic whatever.....that's my idea of fun.

They used to laugh at me, but now that they have begun to "understand" that this is just who I am, they ultimately have accepted that this is the way things are with me. Take it or leave it, and I actually do not care if they whine.

Here is your new mantra for the workplace social routines:


"I practice indifference."


Schoolbus

I don't want to speak for you, Prisca, but: Prisca doesn't need to work outside of the home to understand the danger of excluding spouses during a socializing event. Do any of us?

Back in my younger, pre-married days, I attended a number of 'team-building' events. There was lip service paid to the team building, and then it was time to hang out and relax (read "drink too much and wonder the next day what you did that might embarrass you"). Whooo-boy, the stuff I saw.

There is NO PLACE for socializing events that exclude spouses. It is disrespectful for an employer to even put together something like that, as well as potentially dangerous legally for their company.

Surfer88,

To my knowledge most Fortune 500 AND middle-size corporations now do not sponsor evening "employee" events w/o spouses or significant others, and they haven't for several years. A compnay I worked for back in the '80s sponsored some pretty lavish events - dinner and preferred seating at a major play in Chicago, private admission to the Monet exhibit at the Art Institute, late evening ride on someone's yacht out in Lake MI after a dinner - that sort of stuff. They made good profits then and wanted to reward and impress their employees. But, and a big but, pretty much everyone at the corporate headquarters knew everyone else, or were at least acquainted, and if someone who everyone knew was married showed up w/o their spouse, or tried to hit on someone even with their spouse there it became common knowledge and was frowned on. It was self regulatory. Even as recently as just a couple of years ago the mid-size company I worked for and still consult with sponsored a day outing at the Arlington Race Track. Fun yeah, I think I won about $20 even tho I had never been to a race track before, but again I didn't feel anyone went there to use this as an opportunity to hit on someone or allow themself to be hit on! So, it depends on the organization and more importantly the culture, as well as the people! The two companies I worked for were classy.

Tom

"They used to laugh at me, but now that they have begun to "understand" that this is just who I am, they ultimately have accepted that this is the way things are with me. Take it or leave it, and I actually do not care if they whine."

Same here...I have to give my "speech" often about how I engergize alone (this is true)...now it's not an issue after years of ribbing about me being the party pooper. Truth is, some of us (girls) gather in our rooms and play cards until 3 a.m.

And, we have a blast!

Tom is right. Lots of employers are now very hip to the idea of including spouses - and the reason is clear: they see the affair issue in the workplace as dangerous! Lawsuits abound.

We just had a legal update at work, and the attorney presented a top-ten list for us.

Her number 2 on the list for lawsuits???? "Affairs with co-workers or spouses of co-workers".


I sat there and just smirked. Because I knew that my neighbor had just been demoted because of this exact issue, and so had her boss. They were co-workers, and also, the boss' wife works for the same company. The wife had enough of the rumors, filed a complaint against her own husband, and got him demoted. I guess she must have seen a website or something?

Oh. BTW, I also heard a rumor that affair is busted up. The OW is really mad at her former boss. LOL

DANG that employer for screwing up her affair!

Tom,

You are right, in theory. The fact is...events are held whether spouses are invited or not. The responsibility of who actually goes or doesn't is the employees' and the company can object or not.

OMG, you must be kidding! No disrespect, but in my world spouses are NEVER formally invited. N.e.v.e.r. They are not "uninvited", but it's up to the spouse to invite/include, and pay for (as it should be, in my opinion) them.

I actually think that your perception is just the opposite of today. Today, it is just too expensive to invite spouses. (great companies allow a cost to the employee to have their spouse attend.) And, self-regulation is a nice concept, but happens to those that only wish to do so, as it has been for the last 500 years? See my "club" post. Back in the 80s there was not so much litigation either. Companies are far too exposed to the suits idiots bring forth as a result of their own mistakes.

Ie: "I got drunk and slept with Joe. Now he is ignoring me. Lawsuit!"

Smart employers avoid this issue by asking for RSVP's and tacking on an additional cost for the spouses. Easy.

SB,

I take 100 years to type 2 paragraphs.

You are all are right, but I can tell you that NO evolution in inviting spouses is happening or paid for based on family values. What's different is that it's not discouraged. Nor encouraged. Businesses do not know the path to take to avoid the lawsuits. Sorry for the reality.

I am IN the meetings. It's about litigation and warnings about public indiscretions and potential fallout.

So, what does that mean?

Nothing if one is going to allow any business, job or employer to dictate what is right for their marrige and family.

Back to EPS and POJA.

My point is, if a company tries to gaslight you, call them on it, or find a different job.

Exactly. Smart employers.

Will do! Thanks.

Hi Surfer was intending to post something elsewhere but this seems a topic. The bottom line is that employers, at least those who I have been associated with don't hold employee events to be a playgound. There are probably some who don't care about the morals, but I have to feel most do.

And no, it isn't "too expensive" to invite spouses, at least for the firms that are successful. Look, another example from just my life is all, but even the owner of the hardware store where I worked only one day a week as a supervisor just a few years ago wanted to make that spouses were included in any kind of company event. Simple dinner at local pizza place but would have wondered it my wife wasn't there. Again, it goes to the culture.

Tom

OMG ...80 pages? Um, can you summarize or just give me your advice?

H told another co-worker about the affair yesterday. I was really surprised because not too long ago, he didn't want anyone to know. Now he's telling people when there is no need! Anyway, he says he wants people to know why he isn't on the boat trip and for people to know why he won't be going to any events without me.

Complain about things you don't like, be firm and steady, don't compromise, spend lots of fun time together working on a common goal, don't be afraid of exposure, ask for what you want, do not settle for less. Ignore anyone who uses the phrase "real world", they are often morally wrong, very, very wrong.