The co-worker (a married man with 4 kids) said something like "oh, I can see how that could happen." David said he almost told him to read HNHN because obviously he needs to affair proof his marriage! It made me smile because he now sees how that mindset is dangerous.

This is a great step for him, hbd

Thanks!!!

This is huge - good for him!

I know. I'm so pleased. The last bit of fog might finally be clearing?

Tell me about it A few years ago, Markos' company decided that, in order to build morale, they were going to set up an office secret pal program. It "encouraged closer relationships."

I was hot the moment I heard about it. Our marriage was rocky. It wouldn't have been difficult at all for some woman to get all cozy with Markos, leave him notes and small gifts, fill him up with Admiration and sweet talk. It wouldn't have been difficult for him to have hidden all that from me. All with the permission of their employer.

Still makes me gag to think of it. What nerve to set up such a thing.

Markos didn't participate.

And these people get paid to come up with these big ideas. I have no words.

Caveat: Unless it was a male/male or female/female secret pal. Totally different. Totally acceptable in that case. Somehow I suspect the company wasn't that conscious.

No, they weren't

I will continue to be firm about my stance on the subject and not settle, but how do I do this without making DJs or demands?

Well, I am certainly NOT the poster child for avoiding DJs or demands, lol. However, to be radically honest you need to express how you feel about things. If he continued to cause you resentment by not sticking to your extraordinary precautions, would you end up hating him or feeling indifferent toward him? If so, then that is what you say to him. "I want to be in love with you. When you do something that violates our extraordinary precautions, I feel resentful toward you. I'm afraid that eventually that resentment will build into hate/indifference." You avoid telling him what to do, but you give him the information he needs to make a choice. Then he is consciously CHOOSING whether he wants you to love him or not. Ideally, you both will agree to POJA decisions, and I think that's possible for you based on this boat thing.

But based on some of your other decisions, I think you need to be extra cautious to not POJA things that are bad for your marriage. No agreement on things like, "Hey, I think we should shoot each other in the head. How do you feel about that?" "Oh, honey, I think that's a great idea! Should we use pistols or shotguns?" "Hm, well my dad has a couple of .44's, we could probably borrow those. Would you like me to call him and ask?" "Oh sure! Does Saturday at 4pm sound like a good time to do this?" "Lemme check...yep, Saturday at 4 works for me." "Oh, I am so glad that our marriage is so good that we can make these kind of decisions together!" rofl. You know what I mean.

Quick and dirty tip to avoid DJs: validate his opinion even if you have a different one, and when you state your opinion, do so in a way that avoids negating his. Even better if you can state it in a way that gives admiration.

For instance, we had what could be called the Doughnut Fiasco. My H started a new job and announced he was going to bring in a bunch of doughnuts to, as he put it, "Get in with the service team." I didn't like this one bit, I felt like my H was constantly doing and doing for people in order to get them to like him, which I find incredibly unattractive, and it sets up, imo, a lopsided relationship where one is the giver (H) and the other is a taker (everyone else). The board had a BLAST with this conflict. Anyway, I ended up telling him that I thought it would be better to wait to do something like that (this was during his first week there) until after he got to know the service team because he was the type of person who could 'get in' with anyone based on his personality alone. He liked that and agreed to hold off on the doughnuts. The whole sordid tale is on one of my threads.

And you avoid demands just like that. "I think this, I would do this, If someone did that I would think that." If you approach conversations as a time to share information, you'll avoid demands. I think it was melody who said that asking someone to NOT do something is not a demand. A simple, "Please don't do that, that would hurt," should suffice in most instances.

This is amazing hbd, well done you two...!

hbd,

Well a little confused. Posted here other night but now thinking this may be a comedy farce hypothetical deal. Or just that maybe I am too old now to keep up!..*s*

On the other hand maybe some of you would be good candidates to convince Michelle Bachmann that Paul Revere's ride had nothing to do with warning the French that the Germans were coming! He lived a few years earlier.....


Tom

I assure you, this is not a farce or hypothetical. This is my life. I suppose some might consider my life to be a comedy, but I feel it's more of a tragedy.

Now that you commented, I just want to assure you I don't view your current life situation as a comedy. Just was when I tuned in here it seemed like quite a off-track or levity comments. I think that might come from fact that your opening comments were entertaining an open marriage, not realizing what your wishing for, and then coming around to complain about it. If you're really serious about retrenching, which I hope you are, then I wish you well. Just keep in mind that whatever you two did has become a part of the history of your marriage.

Tom

I think she's well aware of that. She and her husband are really beginning to make progress. He's starting to impress me, and I have no doubt that if they continue down the MB path that they're following, they're gonna end up alright

(tj: this is my 700th post ... that's a lot of talking for me! okay, end tj)

add t/j Yay, Prisca! You da woman!
end t/j

continuing TJ/ Awesome Prisca! Only 50,000+ more posts to catch Mel. I love reading your posts (and Markos' too). I think it's very cool when you guys tag team sometimes.

/continuing TJ

If you go by traditional thought, a comedy ends in marriage, and tragedy ends in death, so your life will most certainly be both. You can get out of marrying, but nobody gets out of dying!

LOL!! True.