Also, I am not quite sure about what your plan for NC is. It is not an option.

I will give you my experience. My wife's OM was our pastor. All I ever snooped out was that it was an EA, so I don't think I took it as seriously. This was before I came to MB. I figured since he was a pastor, etc, that he would do the right thing and stop contacting her. I kept the extent of what I knew and was reading secret and we kept attending church there. He knew that I knew some of it but not that I knew that it was still going on and to what degree. I would meet with him, talk with him email him, etc. I made him feel so guilty. Like I said, I figured it would eventually get to him. Well, it did. The problem is that it did 3 or 4 times. He would be overwhelmed, cut off contact, then in a few days or weeks, it would start back because we kept attending there. I know, pretty weird, but while I was in it and not knowing the necessity of NC, I was clueless.

You are not clueless thanks to you finding MB.

Don't let the other thing that I have seen happen fool you either. When you find MB, you feel for the first time there is hope, and there is. But I, and I think many others, directly draw the line from the beginning of hope to the desired outcome and assume it is forgone, at least to some extent. You have a plan now, but the path is very narrow and not assured. Stay on the path.

Thx for that MMM, many of us supporting are also personally recovering also

I am not surprised about your story and the pastor issue. Because you kept coming, I am sure his ego was fed

I found myself in competiion with some very seriios issues that affected my wife and family, my headship, my covering, with such the same type of issues.

Good to hear from you, and nice post

Oh dear...she gave THAT talk to you?

You take the hard line my friend. She needs a MAN to look to, her HUSBAND, a man of integrity and wisdom. Not the posom.

Her words are those of an extremely fogged out woman. She sounds as if to me, she is going to VAGUELY try to make some tiny try (like see a marriage..aka divorce..counselor?) to show she ATTEMPTED to work on the marriage but will say she feels nothing and then get the go ahead from some dumb counselor (they NEVER help btw).

She is trying to find a way in her addicts' mind to KEEP both being a mom, somehow staying at the house having YOU pay for everything sir, all the whilst porking the skanky om in the supply closet at work. She is trying to find a balance for ALL her crap, because she is IN NO WAY TRYING TO END THE AFFAIR.

She and the posom may be trying instead to DUPE the higher-ups, into thinking it is over, and that they can be "totally professional" around each other at work. That is bull hocky sir!!! That can never happen.

NC for life is the only way. Showing her a LEADER and a man who stands UP FOR HIS FAMILY (man up!) is the only way to go here.

I second the others in painting a very bleak and harsh reality for her. She needs to know that you will not tolerate your child being raised in an amoral environment with a morally loose mother, and that you would intend, if she wanted a divorce and to keep working with her affair partner, that she should in fact move out of the family home, see her daughter AT BEST every other weekend, and PAY YOU CHILD SUPPORT.

Yea. That's what I'd let her know.

In her mindset now (a drug-fueled addict) she is making no sense. OM may have dumped her (prob the reality) but she will probably want to get in some hysterical bonding and skanking with him and try to lure him back. I'd bet my bottom dollar she is pursuing him now. Reeks of it in fact. She is probably trying to tell him how they can take this under the radar.

There is always a good sign to follow when up in the Great Smoky mountains. It says, "Do not feed the bears". It only causes bodily harm and mayhem, and other bad stuff. In your case, another DANGER/WARNING sign needs to be made for you. It should read, "DO NOT LISTEN TO THE WAYWARD". Why? EQUALLY DANGEROUS and stupid. It defies logic, the things they say, and can make a normal brain explode. Remember that. Do NOT listen to the wayward.

She is in full affair mode. This thing did not end. It is being morphed. She is trying to desperately hang onto her job and onto the skanky posom who is a predator at work.

MM, to be honest, you have been stellar thus far compared to most BH, me in particular. But I get a feeling you are like most I have read. You think that it is only a matter of time now. That you have killed it. That your wife really does want your marriage to work. Right now, I would tell you that most likely the answers are no, no, and hell no.

Here is what I learned the hard way.

I think you should get the first one by now. NC is not optional. Insist on it and don't assume it is happening because of his [censored] is on the ropes. In this electronic day and time, it is easy to stay in contact. Bug and GPS her car. Make sure you have detailed access to phone records. Steal her passwords. My personal OM's whole fraudulent career was in the balance, and if I had not stolen FB passwords I would never have known it started back up. I would really be surprised if they are not already working out a plan. One thing common to a lot of OMs is that they are arrogant. They think they are smarter than everyone, especially you. You have to be smarter than them. You have the advantage, use it and don't hold back. Don't expect anyone else to do anything unless forced too.

Never under any circumstances move out unless legally forced to. That was my biggest mistake.

If necessary, file first. It will give you the momentum, at least. This may not seem right, but I wish I had, and I never wanted to end my marriage, still to this day.

Here is some of the good advice I received:

From MelodyLane
Hope is not a PLAN!
ok, Herb, I am going to tell you straight. She probably is not in love with you and hasnt been for a long time. You let your marriage die on the vine.
Do you want back the same messed up marriage that led to this? you would be crazy to want that back.
Herb, why not just do the footwork and turn the outcome over to God? It isn't going to help you to worry yourself to death. Just focus on being as pleasant as possible and don't let her upset you with her ire. This will blow over. At least now you have a CHANCE. You didn't before.

From BigKahuna
You and your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger - it cannot survive an ongoing affair.
Herb if you see every little thing as "giving you some hope" you will be an emotional wreck soon.
You have to learn not to get your validation from her. Know who you are in Christ. Be happy.

Great posts, Herb!! Good to see you back over here helping others.

Hi All - First, thank you so much for the support over these past days. This has been the most stressful, terrible time in my life. When you see your family & everything you�ve worked for & love slipping away it�s absolutely the worst. Then when the advice here seems so counter-intuitive as to accelerate the destruction of the family, the pressure is enormous.

However, I have followed your guidance and received a ton of support from a couple of really close friends and a great therapist. I�ve been as persistent as possible and pressed on even though my heart & head said stop. I�ve watched my child suffer and my wife suffer. I�ve lost weight and have a ton of sleep to catch up on (Ambien is over-rated).

So following your advice I had a serious talk with WW yesterday regarding the options. I explained the options for recovery as Mel & others have advised and I explained the tough road D would be if she wanted to forgo recovery & unplug. I am so happy to tell you that she sincerely accepted the option to get into recovery including the NC100%. She is not going to move out or file for D. I�m not popping Champagne by any means but I do feel it�s a positive development that puts us on a much better path. Neither one of could guarantee what the ultimate outcome will be but we committed to doing the recovery work to find out.

We have a lot of work ahead of us but I honestly don�t think I�d be at this point had it not been for this plan and the tremendous support I�ve received.

Freaking awesome, man.

Great news.

Stay focused though. The ship will inevitably hit choppy waters.

If theres a model to follow in the initial steps of MB it's your story.

stay aboard here and get a solid plan for recovery, I am so glad that she has come to her senses, but be aware of false recovery, right now she can't be trusted and a withdrawal period will happen........
first step in to send that NC letter out and make sure all ways of the two of them contacting each other is over, change phone #'s, delete facebook, email addresses and any other way..........
Then find out what her emotional needs are and starting filling them, be firm and loving...........
make sure boundaries are set in place..........
jessi

This is not great news.
This is not a model to follow.

Why?

Because this BH has refused to hire a lawyer. This OM and the school district need to face the consequences of a sexual harassment suit. This predator needs to be removed from his position of authority.

This really seems too good to be true. I hope it is true and just like you think it is, but believe the people here, it is not cynicism, it is experience.

Trust, but verify. Your wife probably means everything she says when she is with you and sees what she could lose. But a glimpse, a hearing of a name, etc, can set her back weeks. I hope you see that NC is imperative. I have concerns for your recovery if OM is still in the school district if your wife is. To be honest, a change of scenery for her as well would be better. But I would get that chump out.

Read Lovebusters.

Protect yourself. Trust me, waiting and reacting to her moves will put you behind the 8-ball.

Press your advantage, eliminate the enemy completely. There are many examples, Biblical and otherwise, that show this is the way to go.

Good luck. Things seem to be going well. But be ever vigilante, about watching her and about yourself as well.

MM, what is the school doing? They should have been moving on this by now. Have they talked to your WW?

Is your WW out of that school? At least on paid leave while the investigation is going on?

I can't give you any advice on recovery or emotional needs, because I have never been in one or given any. But I can at least share my experience about a WW's actions with an arrogant SOB of an OM after recovery. He doesn't want to lose. He is superior to you.

awesome...

I've been quietly reading along and want to commend you for a good fight so far.

early recovery is tough...expect setbacks (it's a rollercoaster).

I would recommend a road trip asap. getting out of town alone for a few days is key as WW is still in "escapest" mindset and "escaping" reality WITH her is a nice way to take bigger leaps in recovery and put "withdrawal" behind you. Plus...it's easier to insure "no contact" when you are out of town.

I also know you are going to be anxious to DIVE into working and talking about the relationship but realize she's NOT going to be as enthusiastic about it. It's frustrating...to say the least but you still can't "teach her". You've got to sorta maintain a plan A attitude and not be that wimpy guy who always wants to talk about the relationship. Sometimes you've got to be the guy that says "enough talking lets go have some fun". Sometimes you've got to portray confidence and cockiness (which is attractive to women) instead of hurt and sad. Essentially you are dating your wife all over again and you have a choice to either look at that with a "this sucks" attitude OR an opportunity to have some fun and perhaps instill some habits and traditions that will continue on in your relationship well into recovery and beyond.

Toughest part is knowing the right time to push recovery and the right time to coast, otherwise, wayward wife will just coast all over you if you conflict avoid too long.

Mr. Wondering

I echo Mr.W, this is a big point that I never did well at.

Practically no relationship talk. You cannot convince her by words of anything. Believe me, I tried. It hurts your cause.

What is the plan, MM?

Just read this thread...fantastic job so far.

You've got to get NC in place. She can quit her job today if she needs to, unless the OM gets fired. Alternatively, can she take a temporary leave of absence while you wait to see what happens to the OM? This might bide you some time.

We moved out of state in order to have a complete do-over. It was the best thing we ever did. I know that seems like a drastic step right now, but like I said, it was the best move we ever made.

MM

Your WW needs to take transparent, extraordinary precautions to never contact OM again. That means either he or your wife quit their job.
It means she must share every communications device and password with you without any complaint for as long as you need.
It means she will lodge her personal diary with you so you get to veto or chaperone every activity.

She will hate this but it is non-negotiable.

WS can find that pretending to agree to recover makes their BS stand down vigilance and lower personal boundaries so they can rekindle their affair.

You MUST NOT let up even 1% for a long time yet if you are to give your family a chance.

MM, you have some of the best of MB posting to you. I hope you take NC seriously. My prayers are with you.

Agree that it's non-negotiable; however have heart the the "hating it" part is only temporary.

When you begin doing the MB program and your M is better than ever, she will be eternally grateful...pinky swear.

Why not give the counseling center here a call, make an appt with Steve Harley, and then inform your W that you have an appt with a counselor who specializes in helping couples recover from an A and fall back in love?

The number for the counseling center is at the top of the page. I highly recommend this route; it does a world of good and can give you the jump start you need to get into recovery. Steve can explain to her why NC is so important and get her on-board with it.

MM, you know how a prescription info sheet will say to continue taking the medicine until it's gone, even if you feel better? Apply that principle here - you need to continue the program and snooping. Have you seen a NC letter yet? Have proof that it was sent? Until then I would consider what she is saying to you damage mitigation, she would probably say anything to you to get herself and the OM out of trouble at this point and have you STOP what you've been doing.

Stopping the affair is only the beginning, and you don't even know if you've stopped the affair yet.

I understand that you WANT to believe it's over, that you WANT to be able to trust your wife, that you WANT to believe she is sincere. Look at the signatures of some of the folks posting to you and count the number of D-Days that some of them have been through. They probably believed it was over too but kept on with the program and snooping.