Ok, old mittens, deep breath time, take it in, let it out. I need you to do some thinking with your head now, not your heart because your heart is in a very bad place right now and you need to think rationally.

You want advice from people who have been through divorce with kids, ok, you're getting that. There are certain things that you need to do to make sure that your goals of minimizing the effect of a divorce upon your children and maintaining as much of that relationship as possible come to fruition.

The first thing that you need to do is reconsider your decision not to seek a TRO against your wife. Your wife has already been violent, if she is violent again and you have to defend yourself even if it's only to restrain her, chances are you are going to spend a night in jail with a DV charge against you. That charge will be used against you to minimize the time you have with your children - don't think you want to have supervised visitation, do you? Or a criminal record?

It's pretty considerate of you to consider your wife's feelings considering what she's done to you, I hope you don't believe that will be reciprocated by her? If so, you need to disabuse yourself of that notion pretty quickly. Once your wife does understand that you are resolute in your desire to get divorced she will get an attorney. Do you think her attorney is going to be considerate of your feelings? They will take advantage of your emotional state with absolutely no compunction at all to get her the maximum amount of money and assets out of you. You wrote the following:

Quote

And on the custody matter I'm not really worried she has in no way responded to my filing for divorce legally that is if I wanted to take everything we own I don't think I'd have much trouble from a legal standpoint because she is refusing to even acknowledge the fact that we are getting divorced

This is a dangerous and naive way of thinking. I will explain why in a minute.

I mentioned a time limit in my last reply to you. In cases of paternity fraud there is a finite window of time in which a defrauded husband can apply for relief from the court and contest paternity. If you go past this window, the court doesn't care if you were distraught, doesn't care if you were mulling your decision and couldn't make a difficult choice, doesn't care one iota what problems you may have been having, all it cares is that you had a chance to contest paternity and you didn't. All the courts care about is getting someone other than the state, almost invariably a man, to pay for supporting children. They don't really care if someone pays for a child that is not theirs just as long as someone is paying. Men have contested these situations for a long time now in court and have only been grudgingly allotted time to contest paternity.

If you do NOT contest paternity, I can guarantee you that you are going to pay child support for your wife's OC. Does paying this child support mean that you will have shared custody or visitation rights to that child - the answer is probably NO. If your wife tells the court that the child is not yours but another man's AND you have NOT contested paternity, you could find yourself in the situation where you are paying child support and are not allowed to have ANY contact with the child.

http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_18185434

Read what is at the above link. Do a search on paying child support despite a negative DNA test.

Old mittens, you don't have to take my word, or anyone else's for that matter, about what would/could happen to you in mediation or in family court, ask your attorney if what I am saying is true or correct. But heed this warning. There would be a good chance that you could end up with an ex-wife living with someone else in a house that you would still be paying for, paying an awful amount of child support for three children, probably somewhere around 65 - 70 % of your gross pay, until the OC is 18 years old, with maybe Wednesday night and every other weekend with your two older kids.

Still feeling magnanimous?

You haven't said how old you are. I would imagine there would be a possibility that somewhere down the line you may get married again if you do get divorced now. Think of the effect decisions you make now might have on your ability to afford to have a wife and perhaps more children later.

I am imploring you to try to compartmentalize your grief/sadness/anger/despair and try to think things through from a rational perspective, think about your financial future, think about maximizing time with your children. If this is hostile to you, I'm sorry that you would think that. I am really trying to help you, and if it takes me telling you that you need to get your head out of your butt right now, so be it.

Whoa - you scared me there for a minute, faithful follower!

Maybe we should use lower-case initials when we shorten oldmittens' posting name.

ha ha!

MB, that's why I've been spelling out the name - was like I didn't want to add insult to injury.

How about 'mitt'? Or am I just being distracted by Americajin's tagline?

I just want to say thank you For giving all The great device you have been giving.

First of all hello faithful follower I did not realize you were the same one from the other Board it's a small world LOL thanks for picking up for me I'm not sure what a troll is but it doesn't sound very nice I'm not very familiar with slang on this site so I'm not sure if I'm a troll but if it's what I think is I'm not is all I can say.


I guess I should first talk about why I have been so magnanimous as some of you put it with my wife Just after I filed for divorce My wife had a nervous breakdown and was in the hospital for a few days and in that time pretty much everyone turned against me my parents my children friends all said I was being unfair and that I should give her another chance and some very hurtful things were said that I will not repeat here but will never forget things calmed down after a Few days and everything's good again with My mom dad and DDS but I'm afraid if I file a restraining order that Will be angry at me again And think I'm bullying my wife again.


but a lot of you are right of course I need to get tougher I've got to stop This craziness and take control of my life I met with my lawyer today and we went over the divorce papers that have been filed And it looks good my lawyer says I have a great chance at 50-50 custody he says that's becoming more and more the norm in Canada and The fact Is that My daughters are at the age where they can decide for themselves legally as for my youngest he says That he's confident I will get 50-50 he says that if she does try to take that from me we still have time to get a paternity test And prove I'm not the father he says
It's good that I found out about this while she Is still young that I would be pretty much screwed if she were older but says I have a Great chance at 50-50 custody


As for all the other aspects of the divorce things are actually going surprisingly easy this has to do with the fact that my wife is not contesting at least not legally I don't think she knows that I can get divorced without her cooperation (That's my guess anyway I really don't know) in fact at this point the divorce will be final in less than 11 months(I say divorce but it's actually a separation agreement in Canada You have to be separated for one year before you can divorce) and I already have all of my stuff out of the house and bank accounts are separated My Check Goes in to my account and the only thing really left to figure out is how to divvy up the debt it really is a lot easier to divorce/Separate when you get to make all the decisions now I know that can change in a second if she decides to get rough but she has missed 2 Mediation sessions already so I know she still Could Get nasty with this but I don't think she will mainly because I don't think she knows how to deal with this.


So that brings me to my wife and another day on the roller coaster today started out great I went to work and she was not there the first time in weeks Got a lot of work done and Caught up on some things and it was a lovely Oasis from all the things that have been happening lately Then when I got off work I went and picked up my daughter's From their friends and we went home made some dinner and then we started to have a talk and it was great we got a lot of things out they understand now why I can't be with their mother and I think they're going to be okay with it they said no matter what that they love me and I said the same thing. We then got onto the subject of how their mother has been taking all of this and they are really starting to worry about her apparently when she's home with them all she talks about is me and How her life Is pointless without me in it that she Is so sorry and she keeps asking the girls to talk to me and get me to understand how sorry she is. And it's starting to really upset them and asked me to talk to her I told them that I would and that we would figure this out together so I called my wife and told her that we need to figure something out and that we have to get the children situated and make sure that no matter what happens their lives are not Disrupted more than needs to be she said she understands and that we should meet tomorrow and discuss it on a side note on grateful at least that's the only time she seems to talk rationally is when it's about children this is one of the reasons I'm not too worried about custody she always seems to come together for the kids.


PS maritalbliss I love Mitt it's actually quite close to my real name

$o.o2

Mitt;
What advice do you want from this site?

You have been given wonderful advice, a HUGE spectrum.

From waiting 6 mos - (industry standard)to
divorce, restrain her to retain and recover her.

and you have given back nothing but reasons why 100% of this advice won't work. It seems clear that you know your path.

You can not control your STBXW. We can not control her, either. She gets the divorce idea, she is simply hoping that you will change your mind.

She, even as a lowly BS is entitled to have that hope, you can not control nor take it away from her. Does not mean that it has an influence on your descisions, either.

Yours has been a long term relationship. About half your life. Half her life too. Yah, she is a screw up in the wife department, but like MOST WS's, REALITY is hitting hard.


Many have been in your shoes.
You are in a real mess.

On one hand...
I am very impressed that you stick to your guns mentality.
Everyone here (on MB) accepts that a BS can cut out of a marriage,

and
Many, many here would give their chewing molars for a WS that shows remorce.

Would hate to see you pre-judge and end what could be a recovered marriage.

Mitt:

Your story has really upset me and Ive spent the last couple of days thinking about it. I have not mentioned it to my wife but we did one time talk about her unprotected sex with OM and the possible ramifications. It was in the period I where I needed the dirty details and she gave them to me including a description of the pull and pray method they employed. Very nice.

I have never said this anyone including my most trusted sources of support, if I found out that he got her pregnant and they went about and aborted, Id be done with her. This thought shot thru my head for the first six weeks and since it was moot, I kept it silent.

I think you have accepted your youngest as not being 'yours'. She has done nothing to deserve what she potentially facing within her own home. When the dust clears I think you can live with this whammy on your life and cherish her like the older 2. I wouldnt want her to think she did this to the family at any point down the road.

When we took these women as our wives, in my opinion, we took the 'warts' too. Even the imperfections that are yet to come. Certainly giving you a child and to learn she not of your blood is a monumental wart on your marriage.

We did not deserve what our wives did. Its a blow to our masculinity no question. It take a man to help our wives through this and to chart a course to make life great again. It can be done.

Theres a Steve Martin movie from the early 90s called Parenthood where all the characters face family challenges and at the climax of the film, the old grandmother tells a story about a carnival she went to as a young woman and how all her friends like the carousel but not her. She likes roller coaster as it goes up and down with wild bumps, but the carousel goes round and round, "nothing" as she puts it. It was a poignant story about life and how the ups and downs are what make it great.

I think about this movie lately and like to think my life is getting better and better because the roller coaster my wife put us on. We were on the carousel and it go us nowhere.

All BS talk about the roller coaster we're on. At times its not very enjoyable, at times its the best thing.

Well I just got back from dinner with my wife and it certainly was Eventful but not in the way that it has been as of late it was actually quite nice we laughed we talked and we've come to a agreement on the kids (We have agreed to 50-50 joint custody she said she never take the kids for me) but that was not the most surprising thing Of the night the most surprising thing was the fact that I actually really enjoyed myself It felt like old times we've had a long hug but the biggest surprise was what she said at the end.

"while I know what I did was wrong and that you have every right to leave me and never speak to me again And I know how selfish it is to ask you to do anything more for me I'm going to ask you to do one last thing think about all the good times we had think about the love think about The memories think about our time together think about all that before you throw it away as is your right if you can think about that and still say you want a divorce I won't stand in your way but please don't give up on us without at least Trying because I know we can make it if We try I know you'll get tired of me saying this but it's the truth we are soulmates And need to be together Our lives cannot be right unless there spent with each other you are the love of my life and always will be and if you give me the chance I will spend the rest of my life making this up to you"


This has really thrown me I mean I was so sure up until She said that now I don't know what to think and to top it all off I come home and read the post by Mikestillstanding and it really got me I don't know what to do now and I am more confused now than ever do you think should i give her a second chance can you actually recover from this I like to believe we could but then that doubt comes back that nagging doubt that says She made a fool of you and she took quite a lot of pleasure in doing it so I guess what I'm asking is Can you actually have an affair with someone and still be in love with your spouse I mean infidelity by its nature is evil how can you do an evil thing to someone while still loving them???

Mitt, this is why we've been cautioning you to slow down and not make any life-altering decisions right now. You've got to process this thing that has turned your life upside down.

What do YOU want to do right now? "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. So, if you don't know - don't do anything. Absolutely! Mitt, adulterous relationships are built on fantasy. It's not reality. Your WW's affair is the same. She suspended reality in order to pursue her fantasy. It was all about HER. You know one of the more commonly used expressions that waywards say - they tell their devastated spouse that they 'never meant to hurt them' HUH?? What did they THINK the affair would do to their spouse??

You are still processing this and haven't come to the point of acceptance. You will need to eventually accept the fact that your loving wife was unfaithful to you. That will come if you decide to reconcile and rebuild your marriage using the program on this site.

It's really up to you, Mitt. You're driving the bus.

OldMitt, This is the rollercoaster you have been unfortunately placed upon. Several things I wanted to add to the excellent advice you've already received.

That nagging doubt about her joy from making a fool out of you is not a doubt - it was part of the thrill she received from her affair. An affair is awful, but it takes an especially cruel person to do it with the Betrayed Spouse's best friend.

So far, from what you have written, she is in panic mode from her fantasy(the OM) being ruined by reality (yes, you). There is a difference from feeling remorse and shame by hurting the spouse and being embarrased and humiliated from being caught.Be cautious about noting that in her.

One thing I find puzzling is the lack of effort from many cheating spouses - how many posts here feature the Betrayed Spouses finding help, buying books, seeking counseling, etc. So far, I haven't seen anything in your posts where your WW has presented a plan to recover - not even a hint of where she could begin. All I see is her throwing a tantrum that you ruined her fantasy - she even brought your kids into it, trying to have them show you how much "anguish" she is in over ruining her marriage.

OldMittens, I hope you find the strength to move on in life, either in reconciliation or finding a new love. Posters here are advising you on taking time about divorce, which is a good idea that I'll add to. You need time to see if your WW is truly sorry and willing to do the "heavy lifting" to show you how much you mean to her.

Hi, how have you been doing?

Canada... I was wondering why the weird date formatting

I am a BH with a OC, although I differ in that I knew the OC was not mine during pregnancy. We gave her up for adoption so I didn't get to form that bond that you have with your YDD.

I've had more children with my wife since the OC and we are still happily married.

I've just now caught up on your thread and I am so happy to see the "Wait 6 months before you make a decision" posted several times.

Only advice I can give is to watch, watch her.
Watch her actions, not her words.
Give yourself time, leave one of Dr. Harleys books around but don't ask her to read it.

and if you do consider to at least try, A polygraph would be a good place to start.

RMX

I haven't posted in a while but I'm on this site every day reading other people's posts the stories I've read here of Heartbreak and Joy are amazing In particular the stories of Iamdown2010 mirrormirror And wulffpack_girl I wish you all the best of luck and I hope your marriage is work out.

Well I suppose it's time for an update if you read my last post you will now that my wife and I went to dinner and had a really great time and she said some things that really got to me I did not sleep that night I kept thinking maybe I should try again and that maybe I acted to rashly I kept thinking about what everyone was saying here that I should wait and give it more time and that I should not make any rash decisions so I took a few days off from work and started to think I read surviving an affair and spent most of my free time on this site reading other people's posts and then I came across two posts in particular that really gave me hope in two completely different ways I read the post of mirrormirror and how his wife was so sorry and that they seem to be doing so well and she is willing to do anything to make it up to him and then I read the posts of Iamdown2010 and was shocked by the cruelty that his wife showed him and even more shocked that he was still willing to try to fix it And that got me thinking if this man can do with why can't i but mostly it was my wife and what she said to me at dinner looking into her eyes I really believe that she is sorry and while I still don't understand how she could do it I think I'm going to try and find out.

So after a week or so I decide that I need to talk to my wife and that maybe I'm not as ready for divorce as i thought. I had not spoken to my wife since that dinner she had said at the dinner that the craziness Would Stop And it had and that just made it all the more confusing so I meet with my wife and we have a long conversation in which I told her that I am willing to reconcile ( if you could've seen the look of joy on her face) I tell her that this is not something that we can just put behind us and that if she expects us to recover she has to make the plan she has to put all the effort in (I know I have to as well) and she is the one who has to come up with a way to save this marriage. but it seems like she was way ahead of me she has already had a marriage counselor booked been on several infidelity boards picked up several books on recovery and coincidentally has Artie been on this site and ordered his needs her needs and she did this all before she even knew I was willing to reconcile.

so it's late now and getting tired of typing so I should get to my point I'm set to move back in to the house on October 1 and I am very scared what if I can't live with her? what if she's not remorseful? what if she does it again? how do you recover? what do we have to do? what do I have to do? what does she have to do? Can we even recover do I want to so many questions and I have none of the answers I guess I've just come here to get everyone's advice and opinions do you think We have a shot at recovering this marriage.

Firstly, congratulations on the courage to consider the decision to reconcile with your wife.

what if I can't live with her? what if she's not remorseful? what if she does it again? how do you recover? what do we have to do? what do I have to do? what does she have to do? Can we even recover? do I want to?

OM, none of these questions are answerable by any of us. The only one that truly matters, though, and one that can be answered is:

do you think We have a shot at recovering this marriage?

Yes, you do have a shot. Assuming you're working the MB system, the most vital factor that YOU must manage is controlling the inevitable spikes of anger that WILL happen. DO NOT LET THEM BECOME AO'S ! Devise a plan now on how you will behave when they occur. Walk away...go for a drive...hit some golf balls...go to the gym...whatever will keep the evil genie in the bottle, do it.

OM, I was reading along and nodding my head until I got to this part:


None of this will recover your marriage. Most marriages do not ever recover from infidelity. If they stay together, they limp along in a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage and are more vulnerable to an affair AFTER than before the affair. Repeat affairs often do happen. [we have one such repeat affair on the SAA board right now, it is very common] There is a very narrow path to recovery and most do not find it. A marriage counselor is unlikely to help you either. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. They have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population and are destructive to marriages.

The way to recover your marriage, fall in love again, and affair proof it for the future is summarized right here:

here

That program can be found in the book, Surviving an Affair. THAT is the one book that can help you turn this around and do it right. Please don't take chances on any other marriage program and most certainly not a marriage counselor who is not using MB concepts. Because I know of no other program that has any idea how to recover a marriage from infidelity and actually restore the ROMANCE in a marriage. Most in the profession don't even believe it can be done. How to Survive Infidelity

OM, does your former BF know that your youngest daughter is his? If so, that may complicate recovery. Also, if your wife seems so dedicated to your recovery, this would seem like a perfect time for you and your lawyer to draw up a post-nuptial agreement that your wife could sign.

Thank you and yes I know what you mean about those spikes of anger of always had a system for when i get angry i walk away But I know it won't be as simple as that and and I'm hoping to learn here how to keep my anger in check It's just I get so angry when i picture them together I feel like screaming at her and calling her Wh$#e But I just take deep breaths and stay calm and remind myself there are people who have gone through much worse.






thanks for the great advice MelodyLane and I get what you're saying I only mentioned what my wife had done because I believe she sincerely wants to reconcile and does love me and I have no doubt shall do whatever she can to help me recover from this and as for a surviving an affair I have read it already and so has my wife we're going to review it together tonight we are also going to read his needs her needs as well as all the MB concepts
I know this is going to be a slow and brutal road but I'm hoping it's going to be worth it.





no my former best friend does not know that he Is our daughter's biological father and he's never going to know whether this marriage works or not and asked for a post nuptial agreement I never thought of that but it's certainly something to consider I think I will bring it up with her and see how she reacts I would like to get one now that I think about it

So glad to hear you are giving R and MB a try!

Well it's official I moved back We did it a day early we celebrated and had a great night with my family We had dinner and it was extremely awkward at first but got better afterwards Then my wife and I had a long talk and we decided that we will give marriage counseling a try but I said that I really wanted to follow the MB principles and she said she will look at the site again she says she's willing to do anything I ask all she wants is for my forgiveness and to "prove That she's worthy to be called my wife" her words we then watched a movie with our daughters then went to bed she wanted to have sex but I felt I wasn't ready yet is that normal????