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It's not a man's job to put a woman in her place as you suggest. If a woman cannot be adult enough to be a good spouse, then she should admit such to her husband, give him everything and walk away.

I will not try to put someone in their place. I will decide if I am willing to put up with her crap or not, and if not, then I'll show her the door.

I want a partner, not someone I have to put in her place. If it ever comes down to having to put someone in her place, it's time for that relationship to end.

Life is too short to have to deal with someone who wants to test my boundaries. It's her job to stay in the place she agreed to when she said her vows.

Just like it's my job to honor my vows. If I ever have to rely on my wife to put me in my place, then I'm not a safe partner.

I usually agree with what you say, but this one is just plain silly.

Cut it out!

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Well put Mel.

The guys I am talking about are very sane. In all fairness a baseball bat is not extreme. It does drive me crazy when some guy is afraid to expose, WTF?

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What women call fighting for their M and what a man would call it, are in my opinion, different.

BH to OM: Please stop, this isn't good for my M.
BH to W: Please stop, I love you.

BH to OM: See this bat? The next time I hear that you even look in the same direction of my W, you will not see it but it will have an impact on your life.
BH to W: give me the keys, the phone, here is some clothes, go stay with OM. No? Go stay with mom or friend until you decide.

W comes home freaking out... ah, the POSOM told her. Time for OM to meet my little frien... Louisville Slugger.

Somewhere in between= female.

Englightened is right too. Want a daddy, go home to him.

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I beat my FWW's Om and I'm not sorry! blush

All Blessings,
Jerry

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
It's not a man's job to put a woman in her place as you suggest. If a woman cannot be adult enough to be a good spouse, then she should admit such to her husband, give him everything and walk away..

You know what? It is his job to put her in her place if she is out of line. Just as it is MY JOB to put my H in his place if he violates my boundaries. It is the job of every person to protect his own boundaries if he wants to be respected.

What women DON'T respect is some man who allows her to run over him. If you aren't man enough to defend your boundaries, then you aren't worthy of respect!

So, knock it off!! grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hi Melody,

I think that any person, faithful wives and wayward wives included, responds to a man who has the will to reveal his humility and vulnerability, stake his life on his good principles, and to defend his family and himself, as well as his community, when necessary. Sadly, and I guess for reasons of culture, personality, and spirituality, many men do not allow themselves to exhibit this. (My opinion does Not apply to the courageous men (and women) who serve in the military either in combat or peaceful zones).

Therefore, in terms of dealing with an affair, I would reject the following approach -

"Fill your hands, you [SOB]!" The Duke's reply

in favor of -

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
Vince Lombardi

and

Dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price.
Vince Lombardi

I know I could be perceived as rather simple-minded or too black and white on this issue, but I do believe that husbands today do not want to do the work first (i.e., MB principles), and just expect that their wives Should respond right away. In addition, I feel that too many men do not have the will, or maybe better, the humility, to attempt to change themselves and fight for their wives. I include myself in this group of men based on my past behavior.

As opposed to John Wayne, I think that Vince Lombard, had he not chosen to be a football coach and guide the most famous team in the NFL, would have made a great marriage counselor.

Just my view.

Tom



R








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Originally Posted by Tom2010
HiI think that any person, faithful wives and wayward wives included, responds to a man who has the will to reveal his humility and vulnerability, stake his life on his good principles, and to defend his family and himself, as well as his community, when necessary

Great post, Tom. I agree ...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Quote
You know what? It is his job to put her in her place if she is out of line. Just as it is MY JOB to put my H in his place if he violates my boundaries. It is the job of every person to protect his own boundaries if he wants to be respected.

What women DON'T respect is some man who allows her to run over him. If you aren't man enough to defend your boundaries, then you aren't worthy of respect!

So, knock it off!!

Tooooootally agree with Mel on this one. It IS your responsibility as a husband to point out when your wife is crossing the line and vice versa. I don't believe we say anything about reading minds when we say our vows.

Last edited by silentlucidity; 09/02/10 04:39 PM. Reason: spelling and context part of my brain not in gear today...SHEESH

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chrisner #2423823 09/02/10 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisner
I love this one. Mel has used it before.





Guys, practice this at home in front of the mirror. You can even wear the cool duster if you must.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Not to compete with, but to augment Melody's expression, I propose this:

Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence.
Vince Lombardi

It is sad that those who need this most, most likely do not even look here.

To be quite honest, the expressions on this thread should be made into a video or graphic presentation that every BH would need to view and agree to before his registration to post is accepted.

My quote, not Lombardi's: Life is too damn short to allow a gap between a husband and a wife.

In truth I am posting more now because of trying to help my son get on track and back to work.

Thanks,

Tom

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Originally Posted by silentlucidity
Quote
You know what? It is his job to put her in her place if she is out of line. Just as it is MY JOB to put my H in his place if he violates my boundaries. It is the job of every person to protect his own boundaries if he wants to be respected.

What women DON'T respect is some man who allows her to run over him. If you aren't man enough to defend your boundaries, then you aren't worthy of respect!

So, knock it off!!

Tooooootally agree with Mel on this one. It IS your responsibility as a husband to point out when your wife is crossing the line and vice versa. I don't believe we say anything about reading minds when we say our vows.

It's one thing to point out the line. It's the job of the spouse crossing the line to make sure they are on the right side of that line.

It's not the job of anyone to put someone on the correct side of that line, vis-a-vie put someone in their place.

They are an adult, it's pretty clear in the vows that there is no shacking up with someone else. I shouldn't have to tell my spouse that it's unacceptable. That was made clear during the vows.

It's my job to remind them, but they ultimately have to "knock it off"

I can't do that for them. I can't put them in their place. I can only remind them of what place I find acceptable. If they no longer wish to honor that, then they are off the team, it's that simple.

They put themselves in whatever place they want. I decide if I'm willing to live with it or not.

Having suffered one unfaithful wife, there is no way I'd try to recover from a second wife crossing that well defined boundary. There will be no putting her in her place. She will already have done that should she choose to have an affair.

Ditto for things like love busters, meeting needs. It's my job to make it clear. But it's not my job to "make" her behave a certain way. One cannot make another behave a certain way.

I can state and enforce boundaries, but I cannot make them honor them. If they won't, then they are not a safe spouse and don't deserve to remain on the team. I will not live with someone who wants me to police their behavior. If they cannot or will not voluntarily correct love busting behavior, then I simply don't want to be around them, period.

So it's her job to honor the stated boundaries, not my job to act as some sort of parent and put her in her place if she chooses to ignore those boundaries.

My job is to decide if I'm going to remain in a relationship where those boundaries appear meaningless to someone who allegedly cares for me.

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The reason I'm against the whole "put her in her place" is it is in fact, a DJ. It's not my job to decide where another adult human beings place might be. It's my job to decide if I'm willing to continue a relationship with that human being if she wants to stay in the place she's currently occupying.

A boundary is about what the one with the boundary is willing to do, tolerate, etc.

A boundary is not about changing the behavior of another, or stating what behavior they "should" have. As we've all learned, when we use the word "should" describing another, we are guilty of the DJ.

So I can say my ex-wife shouldn't have had her affair. Does that correct the situation. Probably not. So while we all may agree on a core set of values, we can never force those values on someone else.

I see "putting someone in their place" as trying to enforce our values on the behavior of another.

Notice, I never said one should not have boundaries. I simply disagree that we can or should put someone in their place. After all, it's not our job to decide their place.

It's our job to decide if we with to continue a relationship giving the place they currently occupy.

My answer in the case of an unfaithful wife is most decidedly, no!

I made sure I'll have no more children, so if I'm ever betrayed, I'm doing the Dr Harley, and will simply divorce her. Scorched Earth is my plan for infidelity. Expose the affair as I file for divorce.

I'd want to warn as many as I can about yet another person who is unwilling or unable to keep her vows.

I pray it never happens. But I'm mentally prepared should it happen to me again.

I made the mistake of trying to win back an unfaithful wife before. I did the plan A, I did the exposure, and while I feel good about trying to do the right thing, I simply will never try it again.

If someone doesn't respect me enough to honor that clear vow, then I'm not going to try to earn her respect while she's in an affair. She'll have to respect me as her ex-husband, because I sure as heaven above will not be her husband any longer than I legally need be.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
[I can't do that for them. I can't put them in their place. I can only remind them of what place I find acceptable. If they no longer wish to honor that, then they are off the team, it's that simple.

I disagree. If I am doing something destructive and dangerous, I fully expect my spouse to put me in my place if need be. What I mean by putting someone in their place is enforcing firm boundaries and not protecting me from the natural consequences of that behavior. For example, the reason I stopped drinking 25 years ago is because my XH had the nads to give me an ultimatum: stop drinking or get out. He drove me to my AA first meetings and sat in the parking lot. If he had not done that - put me in my place - then I wouldn't have got some much needed help back then.

Sure, I could have refused and left, but I would have never done this if he hadn't put his foot down.

That is what women want. They don't want some wussy who allows her to run over him. That is disgusting.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
[I can't do that for them. I can't put them in their place. I can only remind them of what place I find acceptable. If they no longer wish to honor that, then they are off the team, it's that simple.

I disagree. If I am doing something destructive and dangerous, I fully expect my spouse to put me in my place if need be. What I mean by putting someone in their place is enforcing firm boundaries and not protecting me from the natural consequences of that behavior. For example, the reason I stopped drinking 25 years ago is because my XH had the nads to give me an ultimatum: stop drinking or get out. He drove me to my AA first meetings and sat in the parking lot. If he had not done that - put me in my place - then I wouldn't have got some much needed help back then.

Sure, I could have refused and left, but I would have never done this if he hadn't put his foot down.

That is what women want. They don't want some wussy who allows her to run over him. That is disgusting.

He didn't put you in your place. He said he wouldn't put up with it. He wasn't willing to live with a wife who was an active drunk.

He was willing to help her recover.

But he didn't put you in your place, he said where he would be based on what you chose.

Never once did I suggest anyone allow themselves to be run over.

What I did say was that if someone is intent on crossing your boundaries, you simply either remove them, or yourself from the situation.

One cannot put another in their place. One can only decide if they are going to stay in their place with them, or kick them off the island, sort to speak.

Not once did I suggest or even hint at allowing oneself to be run-over. I said don't be there if someone keeps trying to run you over.

Only that person can decide which is more important, their bad behavior, or their spouse.

He gave you a choice. He didn't put you in your place. He did exactly what I'm suggesting.

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Then perhaps, this argument is merely semantic - what Mel calls 'putting in your place' EE calls 'having boundaries'.

The end result is the same.

No woman respects a man who allows her to walk all over him. But a woman expects a husband to meet and provide for her needs in a loving and caring way.

Really doesn't seem like a double standard to me.



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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
[He didn't put you in your place. He said he wouldn't put up with it. He wasn't willing to live with a wife who was an active drunk.

He was willing to help her recover.

But he didn't put you in your place, he said where he would be based on what you chose.

Now you are just arguing semantics. What my H did was effectively put me in my place. If he had not made an ultimatum I would have continued to abuse him. THAT is what I call putting one in her place.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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We have a lot of betrayed husbands who are wandering around in the kill zone today who need to read this. Arm up and get out of the kill zone, men!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Should I go bump my exposure thread again?


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by karmasrose
Should I go bump my exposure thread again?
I think it's a perfect time. smile


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by chrisner
It�s interesting how many men react to their wife�s adultery with such trepidation and fear. They simple don�t understand the dire emergency and threat adultery is to their marriage. It�s always about the fear of their wife. Fear of her anger. Fear of �pushing her further away�. Fear of losing their precious adultery stained marriage and perhaps if they do nothing it will all go away and maybe they won�t even get a disease.

In other critical situations most men will act quickly and decisively. A sort of intuitive understanding to �assault the ambush� mentality. Don�t hide behind a stump until they pick you off. Charge! Hey, they might get you anyway but at least you have a chance. Right?

For example you are up in Alaska and suddenly are confronted by a Kodiak bear. And he�s hungry. This also qualifies as a dire emergency and threat.

Fortunately you are carrying a .300 ultra magnum caliber Remington Model 700 BDL rifle with a 26 inch barrel and gloss walnut grips and your collection of trophies from NRA competitions in you den back home indicate you know how to use it.

The 1,400 lb. bear wipes away his drool and charges.

What-ya gonna do Bubba? Negotiate? Hide behind a stump? Not likely.

But when your 125 lb. adulterous wife tells you �If you (fill in the blank with an action that stands up to her adultery), I am going to stomp my feet and put on a super pout!�, you assume your fetal position on the floor of the guest room.

�You�re right honey. I�m sorry. I just don�t want to push you further away. I�ll be in the guest room if you need me for anything as soon as I'm done arranging the flowers I bought you.�

I don�t know guys. This gets embarrassing sometimes.

Where has all the testosterone gone?

Here's why - all a woman has to do is utter the six magic words and she can:
- get her BH thrown out of the house
- get sole custody of the kids
- have BH lose his job (law enforcement, military)
- have financially crippling support orders put in place
- move OM in and by proxy have BH support OM.

The six magic words? "I am affraid of my husband" This is usually followed by " he is a raving, jeleous, controlling lunatic and will kill me at first opportunity"

This is in the first chapter of the WW handbook. IMHO, because of the potential legal troubles because of our insane domestic violence laws, BH need to tread very carefully when dealing with a WW.


Me BH 35 WW 36
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08

Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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