Hey, Cliffy! Glad to see you back. Working on emotional needs is a great way to build up that love bank. Extraordinary precautions will help you feel safer about your wife's actions, too. Make sure you get a list of those going. Get those safeguards up and tight.

Yeah, the anniversary of his affair is Sept. 24. I didn't find out until November, but now that I know that's the night it started, it bugs me.

The pain is not the same anymore. I still think about FWH's affair every day, several times a day. But I'm no longer despondent about it. I got really good advice about tackling these "trigger" days, and I've already told my FWH about my feelings and how I'm hoping we can get through them. He's totally on board.

I'm hoping that two years out, I won't even need to ask him to help me through them.

I would say it took me six months not to feel like I was going to cry every time I thought about him being with and pursuing the POSOW.

But I'm better now. That's the honest truth! (But I did go through months of therapy to help me regain my sanity and confidence. I highly recommend it.)

Take each day as it comes. Talk, talk, talk, talk with your wife. Work the Marriage Builders plan.

Getting that UA time with each other?

Sweat pea,

Knowing that you are getting through it, gives me real hope! I need as much hope as I can get at the moment.

Thanks. I'd really like to thank everyone for their help to date, but in particular you. YOU HAVE MADE A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE TO MY LIFE! So thank you again.

Care to share that advice.......I used to think about my WW about 95% of my waking hours.......I'm down to 85% lately..

Sure, Bill: Go to the RECOVERY thread. I posted a topic: D-Day anniversary on my mind.

But I think our situations are pretty different. My FWH figured out he wanted our marriage over infidelity within a few hours of exposure. And he and I worked diligently on healing through Marriage Builders and individual therapy.

Bill: I know many of the vets don't like marriage counselors here (because they distract, etc.), but I found my individual counselor INVALUABLE. She really helped me focus on my goals to regain my self confidence and to heal my shattered heart.

She often told me that I was "reading the same book" out of the library in my head. It was one that was FWH screwing POSOW, and his hundreds of emails and phone calls to her. She helped me change my behavior to put that book away and take out another one, a new book that would help me build my confidence.

So, I strongly recommend individual counseling. Oh, and yoga. I know guys shy away from this kind of stuff, but focused, concentration on your breathing and body -- because unlike what you think, yoga is REALLY HARD physically -- is a great way to put your mind into another realm.

Hope that helps a bit, Bill!

Back to Cliffy!!!

Isn't this forum the best?!!?!?!?!? Now, back to work.

Cliffy: How is your wife doing? Is she still getting calls from the other man?

Don't be afraid to snoop. Really, at this point it's not snooping. Being open and honest means total access, and you have that right. Both of you do.

You said you're working on emotional needs lists. Can you offer it, so we can help you refine it and talk about it with your wife? I know, sounds like drudgery, but these specific concrete steps will help YOU and HER.

Glad to see you haven't given up on us, Cliffy!

Hi sweat pea,

Not been on the website for a few days. Been working on us. Must be a good sign that we're on track! At least me for sure any way.

My WW has changed both her email and phone. This has given me a lot comfort. I am still tracking her movements via a gps device.

I am also tracking her calls and SMS's too.

So no calls or communication.

Will post my emotional needs shortly. In short, trying to work on love deposits instead of withdrawals.

The only hard thing I have is still feeling that she owes me something for what she's done. It's almost like she needs to do things to show me that she truly sorry and remorseful for what she's done. Is this fair that i ask her to odo this?

Cliffy:

Glad to hear the calls and communication have stopped.

Your wife does owe you something: she owes you Just Compensation from her affair. I'll find a link to the article that discusses it.

You also must tell her that, because of the crushed state you're in, you need reassurances from her that she will hold up to her end of the bargain:

1) No contact with former lover
2) She should write down a list of Extraordinary Precautions she will take from now on to safeguard your marriage.
3) She will radically honest about her past, her present and her future.
4) She will spend 15-20 hours of time with you each week.
5) She will be honest about her emotional needs, letting you know when you meet them.

I told my FWH that I NEEDED him to reassure me ALL THE TIME, that he loved ME (not her) and that our marriage was his ONLY FOCUS.

It took about a two weeks before I let him hold my hand again, and about another six weeks for us to rejoin the marital bed. And even then, it was not good for me for about a month. The thoughts of them together kept invading.

But it does get better.

OK, I'm off to hunt for the just compensation article.

(P.S.: In addition to emtional needs list, I get the feeling that you've decided not to expose further, beyond those you've already done. I'll post more later, but even though my FWH stopped all contact right away, and I only exposed to a few key people, I WISH I had exposed a little more broadly. Primarily for MY SAKE. Meaning, I felt like I was living a double life at times, because I was dying inside, and everyone I worked with and most people I hung out with, didn't know a thing. Interestingly, we've recently exposed to friends lately, who have been super, super supportive. We felt compelled, because we saw their relationships heading toward the rocks. And armed with this knowledge, we felt MB's strategy would really help. ANd I sure wish I'd had their support during the darkest days of my recovery, too, instead of nearly a year later.)

OK, now REALLY I'm off to find article!

Cliffy:

Here's the link to Dr. Harvey's thoughts on forgiveness, which talks about "just compensation."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

Let me know what you think. Also: Get those Emotional Needs lists -- yours and your wife's up soon. You really need to start hitting those to restore the love.

Cheers,
Sweetpea

Hey there Cliffy Boy:

You are in the drivers seat and you just dont know it. It appears that your wife is remorseful which is somewhat rare on these boards and youve done a nice job heretofore.

Undivided Attention and Conversation are the keys to success.

Give it, get it and things will get back on track. OM was a brief indulgence and although its a brutal whack to your feelings, understand it is killing your wife equally.

When my wife gets home from work (i work out of the house), we sit face to face and I let her tell me everything she did that day. I create conversation and show interest in her words. Something I never did and I know OM was real good at. Even though I spend little time these days thinking about the A, I do wonder just what it was they spoke about all the time. Could he possibly have any interest in her thoughts? I doubt it. He did what most creeps do, he faked interest to get into her pants. I know it, he knows it, and my wife certainly knows.

And from those conversations she and I have, SF for both us emerges. I swear its true. Its one of the best kept secrets in successful marriages.

I take a lot of comfort knowing my W did not seek SF from him. That was his need. Im sure its the same for your wife and her guy. I now understand my wife got herself trapped in the A and although no gun or chains kept her there, an element of fear and complacency were certainly 2 big factors locking her in. I have no other way to understand it. Really, though, theres no reason but another dude showed her attention and she bit. Simple and stupid, actually.

Stay the course and recovery become easier every day.

Hey, Cliffy:

What's up? Wondering how you're doing. I know. Real life is probably getting in the way, and you're probably just trying to hang on by your fingertips.

So, let Marriage Builders help you heal your self and your marriage.

Let's take some concrete steps -- today -- to get you some measure of self confidence and positive strategy toward the healing of your marriage.

1) Please post your and your WW's top five emotional needs and explain a little bit about why each is important to you. Then, tell us how you're both trying to meet them.

2) Please list the Extraordinary Precautions your wife PROMISES she will do to safeguard your marriage and not allow herself to have another affair.

3) Tell me about your week, and how did you get your 15+ hours of Undivided Attention together to start bonding again.

Cliffy: These steps are not optional. You really must spend the time together, and you really must meet each others' needs and she really must put those boundaries in place.

Taking action will help you recover, and guess what? It will help you, many weeks down the road, finally learn to forgive your wife.

Cheers,
Sweetpea

Cliffy:

Hey, buddy. Where are you? I'm worried and would like to continue helping you.

I'm not sure what's going on, but if you're still having troubles, please come back and post. You will find that many people have trouble implementing this program, and we ALL need a ton of support to make it work correctly.

Really, you are among friends here, and we WILL help you get through this, even if you're having false recoveries.

Sincerely,
Sweetpea

Thanks for your words miekstillsmiling. It's hard, but I'm trying everyday. I am really trying to focus on meeting emotional needs.

My WW needs to travel to the city of the OM next month for her job annual conference. I know this is important to her and have decided to travel with her and stay with her during this time.

Sweat pea -the emotional needs are as follows:

Me - Affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, family commitment, admiration
WW - affection, domestic support, admiration, sexual fulfillment, conversation

What we are doing to support each of these areas is review our actions on a weekly basis to ensure that we are meeting each others needs. It's been going well.

In the back of my mind though, I have a question. I am still trying to figure out which of these emotional needs were met by the OM? I know that he totally admired her and put her up on a pedestal. So this is admiration. When I asked her, to her it was a big fantasy that brought her back 15 years when she was care free and didn't have to worry about not being able to get pregnant? From my earlier posts, she blamed me for not being pregnant. So what other emotional needs was I not meeting? Surely, not meeting admiration alone was the reason why see cheated on me? I know that I didn't meet her other emotional needs as well as I do now, but based on her questionnaire results, it wasn't that bad either? Am I missing something her? How can I correctly ask her about this, and find what emotional needs I wasn't meeting and the OM was?

The safeguards that she has guaranteed, is to cease all contact, and if he contacts to hang up immediately and let me know on every occasion. She has changed her email and phone number and than has really helped me. She is also going through her daily schedule with me so I know where she is at all times. She is also calling and smsing me at least 3 times a day.

In regards to UA time. We are spending at least 1.5hours each night after our child has gone to bed meeting each others needs. On the weekend, we have an afternoon together doing recreational activities together (another 4-5 hours). 2 days a week we go to work together. It is working well and we are both making an effort.


I still don't trust my wife though. I am still very suspicious of everything.

Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier sweet pea. Been really trying to work on UA time.

Another thing I am concerned about is her lack of withdrawal from the OM. She had a sexual relationship for almost 3 months, and how can she just go cold turkey on him? Can this happpen? Or is this another sign that she is in contact with the OM still? I have not seen any evidence of this thus far. She is either hiding really well, or she has truly gone cold turkey?

Cliffy, I would focus on the 4 intimate emotional needs during your UA time. And I would plan the time AWAY from home if you want this to have any effect. Spending 1.5 hours of UA time at home late at night when your kids are in bed is not going to achieve the result you are seeking. First off, it is too easy to get distracted with household chores, TV, phone calls and interruptions from waking kids. Late at night is when you are at your most tired and messy looking. UA time needs to be in 2 to 4 hour BLOCKS to be effective.

The UA time Dr Harley has in mind is going OUT on dates when you are at your best and have spruced yourself up. You are away from kids and the distractions of home.

If you want to get any effect out of this, I would plan on going out at least 3 nights during the week, and several hours during the weekend. It will take 20 hours per week of good UA time to fall in love again.



Does she have a way to block his # so he can never call? She might not feel like hanging up when he calls. I would also check her car for a secret cell phone.

Cliff-

This is a good thing in my opinion as I too have asked how my wife who was with her guy for many years could have no thoughts of him after dday.

First, it tells me she wanted out but didnt know how or more accurately was too scared what she was to face in the real world.

Second, she really hated OM in the towards the end of the A. And, if you read how it ended you'd know this guy is a vile human being and my wife cannot even stomach the thought of him. She hates even the thought she spent as much time with him as she did.

She has told me there is nothing about him she misses.

About 2 weeks before dday, OM begged my wife for date. He said it was a long time since they were together and he was going away with OMW for the weeked and needed my wife. He took her to nice dinner as was the norm and wanted to go to a hotel. My wife said no to the hotel, but as the nature of their relationship, she felt obliged to satisfy him and they went to his office where she "took care of him". How can someone who clearly didnt love him, clearly didnt really LIKE him to any degree, and resented him for a long time still perform for him? I asked her early on.

The answer is there is no answer except possibly fear. She wishes that night and many others never happened.

I have accepted this. She was in a bad place mentally and he rode that horse as much as possible.

Bottom line, Cliffy, is our wives have chosen us. You have the choice of accepting and understanding what they did has little to do with reality and was a fantasy they got caught up in. I know its sad.

Your marriage can and will be better than ever. Mine is.

This seems like a good solution. Don't spend any nights apart, if you can help it. Especially to city of OM. Yikes! I wouldn't get a wink of sleep.

quote=Cliffy177]
Me - Affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, family commitment, admiration
WW - affection, domestic support, admiration, sexual fulfillment, conversation [/quote]

MelodyLane is a master and I would take her advice as much as possible in meeting needs. She's spot on. Particularly the part of making as much UA time "special." But I do also love the quiet time at our house when the kids are in bed, too. Like to check in, especially early on.



I think if you REALLY think about meeting the things that she mentions, you'll wipe that POSOM out of the water!!! And as ML says, concentrate on the intimate ones when you're alone. Be the KING of domestic support when you've got the kids and everything is harried. Really, she chose you; she just drifted and those things you always did naturally fell by the wayside.




You shouldn't. Really, ever again. Your antenna should always be alert for chinks in the armor. We have married people with bad boundaries, so we need to be wary of slips, cracks and malaise.

All in all, Cliffy: Great, great, work.

Hey, don't worry! You're dealing with a traumatic event and doing all you can to right the ship of your marriage. Take care of your wife and you. Post here when you need advice and support!

Interestingly enough, this was the case with my FWH. I think it's because he really knew how stupid and selfish his actions were and he know me. I was giving him ONE shot at fixing himself, and us. So, he knew he couldn't pine, 'cause it would sink us.

Thanks everyone. Thanks again sweat pea. I do feel differently. I don't believe she is hiding anything from me and really is moving on. I have seen a real change in her. I hope it isn't all a front. I don't think it is.

Mike - my situation is slightly differently to yours. If I didn't catch her, it would have continued and possibly developed further.

Last night I played the honesty card with her again as I was feeing very vulnerable. I know this is a love withdrawal ( and I have really tried not to do this!), but she understood why I asked it. She sincerely explained again that it was a massive mistake in her life, and the OM is not even on her radar anymore. She knows what is important to her and will do anything to ensure that she never loses sight of it again. This really gave me further confidence and reinforcement that she has in fact managed to go cold turkey to forget the OM. She also knows that she has one shot at this, and one shot only!

melody lane - I went through her car with a fine tooth comb. No hidden phone. I have not found anything else lately either.

So melody lane and sweat pea - I shouldn't try to analyze what emotional needs were met by the OM, that made her fall in love with him? I really want to know as I really want to target those areas. At the moment, I am just trying to meet her main emotional needs with the same energy, without a strong focus on any particular area.

I will focus on the key emotional needs as you have suggested. Since we started UA time, the conversation, affection and admiration usually turns into sexual fulfillment. I can't remember how long it has been since I have been sexually fulfilled with her like this. It feels great, and she tells me she feels the same. This is a good thing right?