Susie,

I hear you, but that's not really a possibility with little ones after D.

I would have absolutely nothing to do with her, ever, if it wasn't for my kids.

But seriously, I'm past the feelings of disgust and dread with her. I've explained to my family that her being around is like the pizza guy coming over. I really feel nothing.

I'm remarried and I'm very happy.

But I will go to the parallel parenting idea more so. We've been pretty much doing that. It's being around each other at the karate events that has led to the issues that pop up.

What I have to do is simply ignore her and her family from here on when I go to these things.

The big lesson I learned is that civility and friendly banter is just not ever in the equation with the ex. The claws will come out at some point for some minute reason that only she feels is important.

So I basically have to just go on and have the "it's business" attitude with her.

On a different and unrelated note: I taught my DS7 to ride his bike today. He screamed for his training wheels at the start and by the end of it he was riding around the block. Still a bit wobbly, but doing it nonetheless. Very happy as a dad right now.

The pizza delivery guy now that is funny.

But above is special. He will always remember that. I still remember when my dad taught me.

Given all this, why on earth would you tell such psychopaths they are free to call you up and discuss it with you?

Personally, I don't feel that I have to answer for my actions to every lunatic on the planet, especially people who obviously hate me.

I wouldn't try to prove anything to such people. You won't succeed. You'll just hurt yourself.

Of course not. But there is a HTLD to save. And he has children who need him.

Contact with lunatics is not in your best interest, not in your wife's best interest, not in your children's best interest.

You aren't gaining your children anything by this.

And anyway, if I were this woman who hated you so much (the MIL) if I opened my email and saw one from you (or saw a personal letter in the mail) I would probably throw it away before reading it.

That's what Plan B is for. You're going daffy trying to handle all these toxic people.

Actually, the reason I sent the messages was because they had this delusion that the reason I was friendly and amicable around them was because things were just hunky dory with us and we were all getting along splendidly.

THAT is why I sent it. My email to MIL clearly hit a nerve with her since she had this image in her head that I was just fine and dandy interacting with all of them.

So the email I sent pretty much put her in her place. She's been cold to me anytime we've been around each other ever since I sent this, which suits me just fine.

And you guys are right. I don't have to interact with them at all. I have been putting up a front for my kids over the last year. I know they've enjoyed it and they have been clueless that there was any friction. Our D happened when they were too young to remember.

I've informed the ex that I won't listen to the opinions of anyone else regarding the kids. She can be the one to talk to me if she needs to.

The big lesson for me is to just withdraw.

Who's putting up a front?

The kids know better... even if you did D while they were too young to remember, they will put up a front as well.

Consistency and honesty rather than placation will serve you better, sir.

So I'm now wondering how to interact from this point forward. Plan B isn't possible nor is it called for. There is no marriage to save. There is no LB to protect from being drained. There is no pain caused to me by seeing her.

Up till now, if she came to get the kids at my place I'd let her into the doorway to wait while the kids came up to go.

We went trick or treating together with the kids over the past 2 years. We'd interact about the same as you'd interact with a stranger that had a cold you didn't want to catch.

But her behavior at the karate classes has seriously ticked me off. On the one hand I want to be there to watch the kids. On the other, I don't want any more incidents. The nights I go to karate are my nights. In other words, I pick the kids up for the weekend and take them to the class before we head home. I live 30 minutes from there, so going home isn't a real possibility.

My thought is to take them, then leave if she shows and either go to my car or go shopping for stuff I need for the weekend.

No more nice nice polite interactions with her or her boyfriend (not an OM).

I'm also considering putting an end to the joint parent/teacher conferences.

So 95% of our interactions over the past 2 years have been tame and cordial. It's the third incident regarding karate that has me rethinking the whole way I interact with her.

Any thoughts on this? Those of you that have divorced, how do you handle interactions with your ex?

Instead of calling it Plan B, why not just call it what we mean, "Plan NO CONTACT."

My sister has this same situation with her XWH. She still lives in the house they purchased together, but she bought him out. She drives the car they purchased, because she bought it. So, to her XWH treats those items as HIS still. She tries to do things so it is best for the children, but it sends mixed messages and it actually causes real issues when they deal with each other. I have often told her that she should, at MOST, interact through email only, and not answer any of his emails for at least 24 hours.

I know that there is no marriage to save, it's about your sanity now.

I wouldn't say it's about my sanity. It's more about not being a doormat.

When she puts me in that situation in public, I don't respond because I don't want to escalate things. The kids are there, so I can't just walk away if they're looking, which was the situation one time.

I think I'm just going to try to leave if she tries to talk to me in any way about anything that isn't relevant.

And if anyone other than her tries to talk to me, then I will just walk away.

My DW says she'll go with me from now on. She just couldn't that night due to a school function.

I think it's important that you remain civil with the mother of your children for the children's sake. That doesn't mean you have to sit by her at karate class or school programs. Perhaps you could schedule separate conferences if the teacher agrees.

It will be better for the kids if you agree on parenting issues, but I realize that isn't always possible. Don't withdraw from your kids or their events, if you can somehow tolerate the interactions with your FW. Your kids will notice your absence, and it will hurt them.

If the situation is simply intolerable, you may have to negotiate
an agreement that each of you attends the lesson every other week. Good luck trying to work through it, dad. Sounds like you have done a good job, even if it's really hard.

Freefall, many of us here disagree that we would need to remain "civil" with our WS's or XWSs. And I will tell you that the children feel the tension, and they see more than you realize. They then get told that mom and dad get along, and it's all okay, which teaches them that their feelings were wrong(but they are being lied to, how confusing).

HTLDs, I only mentioned about it helping your sanity, because I have seen you be a pillar of strength for the member of this board. For you to be bothered by something, it isn't trivial.

If your DW can come with you, will the 2 of you be able to stay calm, and not escalate the sitch? I would hate for it to become a sitch in which ALL of the adults in the children's lives get tangled up in a heap of mess. The children need someone they can model their own behaviours after. I think we all know whose behaviours I believe they should model.

Freefall, Scotland,

You�re both right. I say that as a child of a divorce situation. My parents divorced when I was 25 and here have been some very stressful moments for me when my parents have been around each other at major events. I can tell you that as a child, it is important to have the parents be civil around each other, even if they don�t hang out together. Simply being around each other without arguing is a big deal and great to have as a kid because, as a kid, we love both sets of parents even if one of them committed a terrible wrong in the past.

My dad was a WH. He married his mistress, whom he later divorced. She�s out of all our lives. He remarried someone that we all get along with well enough.

He can�t undo what he did, but we rebuilt our relationship after the OW was out of his life.

Thing is, my mom hasn�t quite grasped the idea that he�s no longer her H and has no right to fight him on certain things or demand things from him. So this has created some very tense moments for us kids at certain events, such as weddings because she confronts him on some things there (unrelated to his waywardness). She�ll tell him he should help us financially, and get all emotional and stress us all out. Thing is he does these things. She doesn�t like that he doesn�t visit us enough or is involved in our lives that much so she�ll call him out on it at events where that stuff can be tabled for later discussion.

I can�t imagine what it would have been like to grow up with this type of stress at every event, sport, or function while I was growing up.

When my ex comes at me, I stay quiet. I don�t engage back, even though I want to yell at her at the top of my lungs and tell her to go to he77. But I get cornered at these events and I can�t simply leave because the kids are supposed to come home with me after their classes. I say as little as possible when she comes at me.

I�ve decided that I�ll sit in their classes and not talk to the ex unless it involves something regarding the kids school or medical stuff. Outside of that, there will be no discussion on anything. Even the other stuff I can simply say, �email me about it, I don�t want to talk about it here.�

If my wife can�t be with me, I�ll simply slip out and go read a book elsewhere or go shopping for stuff if she shows up.

*raises hand*

I disagree.

And I am here to tell you that this doesn't work with a wayward. Their version of "civil" is them doing whatever they want and throwing a fit if you don't do everything they want.

Example? I have exclusive use of the house and had agreed to allow STBxWH in one time to pick up his tools and pictures, etc. I packed up EVERYTHING and set aside plenty of time for him to get it all, left with the kids, and had someone here to supervise him.

He rifled through the boxes for the good stuff, told the person I had here that I could do whatever I wanted with the rest (even though I made it clear I expected him to take it all and throw away his own garbage). Within a couple of days, he is demanding to come back in because he doesn't have something and is demanding that I be "civil" with him.

Waywards!!! Plan B is the only way to keep your sanity...

That is my WH in a nutshell. Susie I really think it is because they think we are chit without them. Because we are chit without them we will sit around on Friday nights eating a quart of ice cream chased down with bon bons. Then they think the only company we will keep are 50 cats and seven birds that talk.

My very wayward husband wants me to bow down to him and be his wonderful friend because well that is what the right thing to do is Tough~.

"Our children are too young to understand. What are you trying to brainwash them Tough? When they are older they will want to come live with me Tough and then you will be all alone. You plan to brainwash them now Tough so they chose you."

Susie,

You're fresh into this process and technically still married. I'm almost 5 years past it. If I find any of her stuff now I can simply throw it away.

Like it or not, you will have to deal with him after your D or you will have to miss out on events your kids will be a part of because he will be there.

That means that school events, sports, etc, are things which you're going to have to either choose to attend or to leave since you don't wish to interact with him.

Believe me, I can understand the feeling of not wanting to see the WXW. But you eventually get to a point where if your WH shows up to something it will have no emotional impact on you. You'll really care less that he's there.

My folly has come in thinking that there could be conversation at the kids events that dealt with kid things, but that is a big mistake. Teacher stuff can be dealt with at p/t conferences. Doc stuff can be coordinated via email.

There just needs to be a standard I need to get back to which basically said that unless there is blood on the floor or someone about to die then there was no need to interact at all and everything else can be done via email.

HTLD, I would simply tell her by email that you don't feel comfortable discussing private matters in a public venue, and so won't be doing it anymore. I would sit away from them at the karate classes. If they sit next to you, just say hello, and ignore them after that. If they start talking to you, simply say sorry but you're not discussing anything. If they persist, stick your fingers in your ears. Seems childish, right? But you'd be amazed how well it works.

HTLDs, do you still feel indifferent to you XWW when you go places where she might be?

Couldn't you also say, "I would appreciate if we didn't sit together."

Scotland,

I take the kids to their karate class because they have it on a night that I get them for the weekend. SHE chooses to come on a night she doesn�t have them. I�m happy if I don�t see her, but she�s the one coming to where she knows I�ll be, not the other way around. I had them fulltime in the summer and she would still show up to the classes whenever I had them.

The classes aren�t around the corner for me. They�re around the corner for her since she chose the school right by her home.

You bring up a point, however, that is reversed. I loved having the daycare because I could get the kids without seeing her at all. I went weeks without interacting with her at all.

Now, with the current change to the daycare, I�ll have to see her on Fridays since she takes them to her home.

She is the one that chooses to come to the karate classes on the nights she doesn�t have them.

Why she does this, I don�t know. I�m happy to not interact with her at all. In fact, the only reason I didn�t invoke the part of our order that mandates her to bring the kids to me on Fridays is precisely because I didn�t want to see her in any way.

I don�t think there is any motive to any of this on her part. In her mind she feels I should worship the ground she walks on for working and taking the kids to things. I should be honored to be in her presence (in her mind) and see her for the great mother she is (she does the job).

I honestly feel she�s starving to have some degree of approval from me. This is why it was a bit shocking for her mom to have the blinders lifted when I told her that I would have nothing to do with either her or her daughter if it wasn�t for the kids. In fact, many of her email rants to me focus on how I don�t seem to appreciate all she does.

Reading: The dojo is small and has very few seats for parents.

Honestly, it�s just time for me to back out if she shows or sit across the room if I can.