celticvoyager, please check your email.

Celtic:

I told my FWH that my next career should be in marriage counseling!!!! Just feel that there's so much help needed out there.

But, I do have to hit my first goal: finish a writing project AND launch a wedding video business.

Congrats on the duration and strength of your recovery. You are an inspiration!

SP

Gotcha. I replied. Thanks for the head's up.

CV

Thanks.

I have a list too... counseling, w wants to start a b&B, want to get back to ireland....lol

you know... nothing big or life-changing....

Can I have a 2x4 or three? Ugh. My wife just texted me, because she was freaked out at work. Apparently they had a client that looks and acts so remarkably like OM that she panicked. The guy tried sitting at her desk, she asked him to move and he wouldn't so she had to move to another desk.

She texted me immediately, but I am responding like a dufus. She was O&H, but I was acting like a moron.

Ugh. Sometimes I hate myself.

CV

I know better than this.

None of us are perfect, right?! I think it's hard to know you've caused a setback, even if it's just a little one. The only thing you can do is apologize and take a look at why you reacted the way you did. You're allowed to have feelings. Just getting familiar with your situation, but I would say you are!

Of course, it's important to learn from our mistakes. Perhaps you were triggered and instead of being O&H reciprocally you let your hurt take over for a bit. I try to hold off on responding to my H when I trigger over something - so I don't let my emotions take over the situation. In the past I usually responded in extremes: I was too emotional or I stuffed things and didn't deal with issues at all. Trying to find a new way to interact isn't always easy.

I hope your wife was understanding of your reaction and you were able to make her feel glad she spoke up about what was going on. I know how important that would be.

I just realized after reading another thread your wife is on MB too. That's awesome!

Forgive me - I'm somewhat new around here - learing who's who and what's what. I know you must be quite the vet! ALthough, vets need help and encouragement too at times, right?!

MB has helped us both a lot. I don't consider myself a vet, but a definite MB advocate. And yes. I have found we all need encouragement from time to time

Well, I've seen a lot of good advice from you so I considered you a vet!

MB is truly a Godsend!

I know I am late to respond to this CV, but I think it is tottally normal for the man to want it all to go away, and when his W responds to such stimuli, for it to bother him or take him by surprize.

I'm hoping all is well now.

yeah, much better now, thanks. You know I know it in my head, but sometimes outside of cyber-land... you just kinda feel like you're the only one. thanks for the reminder.

Haven't posted much in a few days. I started a new job and it's been busy (but good), and we just had a family crisis (extended family). MB is saving the day there too!

I hope everything's okay, CV!

oops! posted to the wrong thread!

Let me type the right stuff in here....

Long story short, my brother had a major flub 2 months ago. He was chatting with a girl in a gaming chat room and it ended with her sending pics. What he should have done was never given her an email address, but he did and then didn't tell his wife. This woman was having a PA on her husband with at least 2 other guys. It began and ended with the pics for my B, but the OWH found out about it all and called his house (from several states away). My B ended up telling his W and she was upset and moved out. He called for help and we are working through SAA with him and trying to get her to move home (expected this week). So far it is going well. they are talking, he is repentant and O&H and doing ALL the work.

CV

For all you great Texans out there!

Notes from an inexperienced Chili taster named FRANK, who was visiting Texas from the East Coast:

"Recently I was honored to be selected as a judge at a chili cook-off. The original person called in sick at the last moment, and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking directions to the beer wagon when the call came. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that the chili wouldn't be all that spicy, and besides, they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted. Here are the scorecards from the event:


Chilli # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili

JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.
JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.
FRANK: Holy s&^$t, what the heck is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway. Took me two beers to put the flames out. I hope that's the worst one. These Texans are crazy.


Chilli # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili

JUDGE ONE: Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight Jalapeno tang.
JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken seriously.
FRANK: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to rush in more beer when they saw the look on my face.


Chilli # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili

JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more beans.
JUDGE TWO: A bean less chili, a bit salty, good use of red peppers.
FRANK: Call the EPA, I've located a uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now, get me more beer before I ignite. Barmaid pounded me on the back, now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. I'm getting &^*$-faced from all the beer.


Chilli # 4: Bubba's Black Magic

JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.
JUDGE TWO: Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.
FRANK: I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable to taste it, is it possible to burn-out taste buds? Sally, the bar maid, was standing behind me with fresh refills, that 300 lb. woman is starting to look HOT, just like this nuclear-waste I'm eating. Is chilli an aphrodisiac?


Chilli # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover

JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground, adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.
FRANK: My ears are ringing, sweat is pouring off my forehead and I can no longer focus my eyes. I farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed offended when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue from bleeding by pouring beer directly on it from a pitcher. I wonder if I'm burning my lips off? It really pisses me off that the other judges asked me to stop screaming. Screw those rednecks!


Chilli # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety

JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spice and peppers.
JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb.
FRANK: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous, sulfuric flames. I pooped myself when I farted and I'm worried it will eat through the chair. No one seems inclined to stand behind me. Can't feel my lips anymore. I need to wipe my butt with a snow cone!


Chilli # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili

JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers.
JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef literally threw in a can of chilli peppers at the last moment. I should note that I am worried about Judge Number 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress as he is cursing uncontrollably.
FRANK: You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull the pin, and I wouldn't feel a darn thing. I've lost the sight in one eye, and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My shirt is covered with chili which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants are full of lava-like poo to match my shirt. At least during the autopsy they'll know what killed me. I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful. Screw it, I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just suck it in through the 4 inch hole in my stomach.


Chilli # 8: Mount Saint Helen's Chili

JUDGE ONE: A perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili, safe for all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.
JUDGE TWO: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge Number 3 passed out, fell over and pulled the chili pot down on top of himself. Not sure if he's going to make it. Poor Yank, wonder how he would have reacted to a really hot chili?
FRANK: -------------- (editor's note: Judge #3 was unable to report)

Lol, that would be me

Once when I accidently bit into a hot pepper from some chinese "Orange Chicken" I lost it!

I remember when I was proud that I ate a whole pepperocini without having to have a piece of buttered bread.

I used to say that people who could eat hot stuff like that, must have numb taste buds..

I am better now with the hot stuff, but my kids still warn me all the time.

Funny story though, I really enjoyed it

It's one of my favorite jokes. And I couldn't resist taking a poke at them Texans (or us east-coasters)...

Since I can't think of another place to put this than on my own thread, I will post this here... I have thought about this a lot over the last four years, intensely over the last three and change...

I thought I'd post about love and loving your spouse. Some here maintain that the BS doesn't love the spouse when they are in the A, but rather love the idea of what they thought the spouse was, or will be.

I have to say that this isn't always true. It may be for some, but not all.

I loved my wife while she was wayward. Were there things I did not like about her? Yes. Things that I hated about her? Yes. Did I hate *her*? No.

I have always loved my wife. In spite of how she treated me and others. Nothing she did changed that. Nothing she will possibly do in the future will change that.

I believe it is possible to love unconditionally. despite someone's sins, short-fallings and misgivings. This doesn't mean we have to be with them, it doesn't mean we tolerate actions that are hurtful or damaging. It means we make a choice about how we feel towards someone despite what they are/were/or are becoming...

I understand not everyone likes this idea, and not everyone feels this. That's not my point. My point is that it is possible to continue to love despite how we have been treated.

I think of 1Jn 4:19 "We love because he first loved us."

and

Rom 5:8 "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

There is conditionality to love, it is faith and repentance here, but again...

Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

our faith finds it's origin in Christ. It is a gift given to us and is perfected by Christ's Spirit working in and through us. Likewise our repentance is as well. It is Christ who has given us a new heart and brought us to repentance.

Act 5:31 God exalted him (Christ) at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."

2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Even the ability to repent is granted from God and like faith, it is a gift from God.

So even the conditionality of faith and repentance is given by God. it is a provision made for us.

Despite how we have treated God, His rich mercy was granted to us in Jesus Christ, Our faith is His faith in that it is a gift granted to us and perfected in and through us by Him. So likewise is repentance.

Truly the conditionality of that love was met and accomplished by God for us. Because we (and we who believe were all waywards towards God)were lost... dead in our trespass and sins.

So is God's love conditional? Yes. But it is unconditional in the sense that he met the conditions for us. He fulfilled the conditions and met us while we were still sinners. He didn't wait for us to "get it right" before he loved us.

Can we love unconditionally? Yes in a similar way (we are image bearers of God after all), we too can choose to love unconditionally. It doesn't mean we let ourselves get walked over, it doesn't mean we acquiesce to a wayward's demands... We don't relax our boundaries. Sometimes that means in spite of the love we have for a spouse while theya re wayward, we turn them over to their sin, out of love we may "excommunicate them" from our fellowship... our lives... Not so they can be punished, but so their souls might be saved.

If God chastens those he loves, can we not chasten those we love as well?



It means that we choose to love them despite their sin. It means we hold out the laurel of forgiveness calling them to repent, to cease their sin and live according to the promise by which they were called.

Withholding love is a sin.

1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

God does not say "unless"... There is no qualifier in that regard.

real love is unconditional:

1Jn 4:10 In this is love, **not that we have loved God but that he loved us** and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1Jn 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

This is why Jesus calls us to love our enemies, and to pray for those who despitefully use us. Again, this is not based on our feelings, but on our decision to act. Just to reiterate, it doesn't mean we allow ourselves to be a doormat.

I believe this is in line with MB.

Can love fade? sure. Can it end? Sure. but that's not really the point. The point is our higher calling and what we *CAN* do...

We can actually love someone despite what they do to us. We can actually love them WHILE they are doing it and afterwards as well.

It is a philosophical question too...

We see our state of being (husband, wife, father, mother, personhood... WHAT we are and we try to understand it epistemologically. We ask ourselves WHAT do we know and how do we know it. We realize our state of being as a parent a spouse and such instinctively a lot of times and simply "be".

How we understand those roles, who we are is very different and MB challenges us to think these through... what Kind of spouse and I? What kind of parent am I? What kind of man or woman am I?

It challenges us to examine HOW to be a different kind of parent or spouse that we've been. It epistemologically informs us as to the basic principles of marriage.

It informs our ethics.. it fuels HOW we live in light of what we know.

Humanly speaking, MB is the best I've run across. It's no match for Scripture and can't hold a candle to it (I think Dr. Harley would agree). But it is a good interpretation of some scriptural principles (basic life and marriage principles) and is one of the best I've seen. It's worthy of examination and like I said.. humanly speaking, the best out there I've seen. It recovers marriages. Not a lot of other programs do that. But Jesus is my savior and not MB or any man... No matter how grateful I am for the help found here and the wisdom found in MB.

So... Can you love your spouse when they are wayward? Yeppers. Is it easy Nope. But that's not the point. Some of us did and do.

I'm sure this might rankle a few feathers.. I sure hope not. It's not a slam on MB... I'm on board with it. I approve. This is actually how I see MB.

CV

Just an update on me, since I've been off-list for a while...

about a month or so ago I started a new job. It's a totally different line of work for me, something I've never ever done. It's hard, but fun. In the time I've been off-list, 2 family members on my side have been victims of affairs. We've been helping them deal as best we can when we have time. Add to that, I am still in grad school (just a few classes left!), my youngest is enlisted and leaving in June right after graduation so we are prepping for that as well. I also have picked up additional duties with our church and another. Needless to say, we have been busy, but the list and you guys are never far from my mind or prayers.

CV