I think you are underestimating her. Literally she might kill him, no exaggeration. She's literally unstable. When I wouldn't bf my odd, she tried to
Hold me down and force my boob I'm the babies mouth...I'm serious.

My guess is that Financial Security is VERY VERY high on your list of EN's. (I know, what was my first clue?)

You are also clearly in an economic strata that is much higher than my own. Though I don't have much (read that NOT ANY) experience being well-to-do by American standards, I do have lots and lots and lots and lots of experience being poor.

It's not so bad.

Ok, so it's not that much fun, either, but it's doable. You have no idea how little you can get by on. And health insurance? Truly, that is a luxury. I have appreciated it very much the few times we have had it.

Just for one example of how being less than wealthy and not having health insurance doesn't have to be the end of the world, just after AJ resigned from his company job, 2 of the kids and I got sick with bacterial respiratory infections. It took a visit for each of them, and several visits for me, before we got that sorted out. I have it almost paid off now. Some months over the summer when money was especially tight, I was only able to pay them $10 or $20 a month. But as long as I kept paying something, it was fine. Now that we're both making a little more money, I can pay more. That's fine, too.

Know what I have learned? Whether we have no money, only a little, or a comfortable amount, AJ and I are happy because we have each other.

I know you're stressed and worn out. Anyone in your position would be. It makes me very sad to see you spinning in circles trying to carry every possible burden that may face you in the future. From the false pg to every possible permutation of your financial future, you are carrying a load that isn't yours.

The load you have is heavy enough. For your own sake, don't add to it.

And, even for someone with a high need for Financial Support, there are things that are much more important than money.

OK, the best you can hope for is that they are willing to watch your H from the inside. That they are appalled at his actions,(Family men), are mad about his using work for this kind of relationship, but are stand up people who give your H a chance to work it out. A slim chance, but a chance.

The same requirements that MB lists should be a no-brainer for them.

1. No contact whatsoever with OW. As far as you have explained it he doesn't have to see her anyways.

2. Complete transparency with what he did on company time, and business expenses that he might have spent on the affair. Complete accountability to his superior. He has betrayed a trust, and does not have a right to feel insulted, he has to be humble and willing to be questioned at will.

3. Because the company has an option to move him, they should, if he is a valuable asset and can perform just as well in the move. Remember, they don't have to, they could let him go. This is a chance for redemtion, they don't have to give him.

Its grace, unmerited favor, but it business also, he has become a liability. This is something that takes time to discern what desision will be made. What past performance was like, how repentant is he, and something his superiors will have to think about before they make a decision. It is not an easy subject to bring up and discuss, and it probably went to the top to be decided on.

You have not given it enough time, especially if its a large company, for his boss to stick up for him, and buy him this chance. Its a good sign that they are willing to keep him on payroll right now, that they are even considering it, because they have to answer to payroll, which would have some questions about his time off. Somebody bought him some time.

Now why they bought him the time is the question. Is it because his job performance record? Or is it becuase it a "good ol' boy" network? The latter might/would mean they might not care about the affair, only that he got caught. That would be a disaster to your marrige.

See what I am driving at? It would be better for your marriage if they were appalled, and would not put up with this from thier employees, and got fired. Someone is pulling for your H, and it better be because he is good at his job, because the higher ups don't care about who he knows, just the bottom line.

It would be great if you could ask to install snooping hardware on his PC at work, but fat chance, corporate secrets and all. So HR could have the network people deny permissions for correspondance via email to OW, but they would have to have a reason for this. HR could also take the time to monitor any communication, effectively spying. Added work, again, he would have to be worth it.

So someone has been pulling for him at work, he has an uncle at the other location 45 miles away and that hasn't been ruled out yet, they haven't fired him. What could go wrong?

It could be a place that is riddled with infidelity, and the only reason they are being so kind, is because his boss or others too, have skeletons in the closet, that he knows about. It could be an "old boy network", where this stuff is kept secret, and people who find out about it, come out of the closet and start to tell him of thier exploits in infidelity, or just laugh at him and slap each other on the back. "Oh so she caught you huh?, don't you know you should party out of town?" He could lose respect, and just figure "F it", they allready know so..". People whom he once were freinds with, could shun him. The ones who guard themselves from this sort of thing. The people who used to stay clear of discussing such things, could think they have a fellow "playboy" in the midst. His whole circle of friends there could change, because news can leak out, and it often does, especially bad news.

He has jeapordised his job, and his reputation, for a cheap piece. No matter how you slice it, he has to pay, and you do too. Except you have the get out of marriage card now, because you do not have to accept recovery. You have to recover trust, and even intimacy, with this man. This is your choice, you do not have to do it, but like work, and all the hoops he will have to jump through to work his way back into redemption, it will take hard work and discipline to restore these things with you.

With all the triggers and reminders work has, how hard do you think it will be, to recover? He will want to go to the place where he feels no pain, to escape the reality of the real world and the consequences of his choice. His place of rest should be with you, but with his sexual needs being met,"no strings",(at least for now),with the fantasy relationship with OW, and with internet whores and masturbation fantasy also, the presure will be great on him, to return to the OW.

These are just the hard cold facts. Your marriage as it was is over. You can recover, but it is a very specific course you must take, and your marriage must come first, and you must restore, and even build to a higher level than before, romantic love.

Are you willing to live on love? Do you beleive it is possible for love to be enough? Or are the creature comforts worth more? I know your world has been shattered, and I know that it will never be the same again, but it can be even better than before, with a greater understanding of yourselves, and your weaknesses as human beings.

Weigh the investment you have in each other, and make the choice, is the job really worth it?

Yeah I understand she is a wack-job C&T. I got that the first time. She sounds like someone who is really messed up. Sorry you have to deal with that.

Not very motherly huh?

She can be...just depends on the day *sigh*

She had a tough life.

Neak-we aren't poor by any means, but we certainly aren't well
Off. We live in southern California, our COL is extremely high. Our housing and job market is one of the worst right now I'm told. I bought my house at 21, and the mortgage is almost half our income. There is almost no way to survive out here with one income, without losing everything. While my mortgage is so high, rentals aren't much cheaper. A 2 bedroom apartment would only save me $200 a month off the mortgage of my home. I guess I don't see insurance as a luxury but that's probably because I have a very high anxiety and fear about unknown (no way you didn't notice?)....I'm a planner. And a horrid worrier. I just don't know how we could survive very long...we already live paycheck to paycheck. We recently paid off alot of debt and already where living outside of our means and cut out alot...most eating out, most clothes shopping, luxuries like satellite radio, gym, extended cable, dog grooming, dance class for DD5, etc...we are just so close to that line I'm very afraid.

But you guys are right. What good is money without marriage.

CP...the industry he works in is male dominant...but it seems family oriented. There are only about 7 females out of 160 employees I'm that facility. His boss and bosss boss where the ones who came up w those ideas before going to HR, so I'd imagine they are pushing. But he is highly regarded in the company I'm told, and talked highly of. His name is talked about by clients on forums and Internet sites relating to the industry and his team and department where only formed 2 years ago when he got the promotion-he was the first hire on the team and has helped spearhead this new brrand...I'd imagine they'd take a hit with him gone. In addition, his team is only 5, and they seem overburdened ...and one is going out on maternity leave soon...I have his password to get in his work email from home so that's good

I hope it turns out they let him work from home or another office for a while. I hope the fact they are willing to keep him on payroll whole they sort it out is good news. I hope so bad.

Maybe because we where poor growing up I'm terrified...I don't want my kids to have that...although my mom would risk her financial security to help us...especially if it meant taking things from my kids.

I wish I could stop circling and carrying burdens people say aren't mine...but they feel like my burdens-they affect me!

Your WH has his employer in a very tricky spot, so they're not going to rush. They CAN let him go, but he can sue for wrongful termination. It doesn't matter if he'd win or not. It's the fact that he can sue, and I doubt they want to deal the time and expense of that. I suspect they're going to offer to transfer him. If I were him I would accept that and be grateful.

And stay away from the female employees.

If the two of you, in your daily lives, are unlikely to bump into OW there's no rush.

In the long term, if the mortgage is taking up that much of your income, perhaps it's time to do some thinking about relocating down the road. There are still many places in this country where you can buy nice houses inexpensively, and still make a living in the area. This is probably not going to end up being relevant right this second; it's just that any time someone has a monster mortgage and/or is very fearful of the future, it makes me think thoughts of major financial restructuring to change the situation. Making less money but getting to keep most of it is an amazing stress reducer!

I just finished reading your thread. I feel for you. ((hugs))

One thing I have learned over the years that money isn't everything.
I grew up in a very comfortable family, I married my husband and we had no money. His work improved we had money, then the economy dropped, he changed his career, now he have little money.

In the end money doesn't really matter. Things don't matter. Social stigma doesn't matter.

What matters is your happiness and health.

The past few years, we stopped having cell phones, reduced ourselves to one vehicle, cancelled cable tv, stopped going out and buying random items and more clothes than we could ever wear.
I have never been more proud of what we are doing financially.

What we have is what we have. No dept, no credit card bills, nothing.
OK, so it is not a fancy house, or fancy car, fany neighbourhood. It is what we are and what we can afford. That is nothing to be ashamed of.

I also found thrift stores are great for getting nice, designer clothes for just a fraction of the cost. Especially for children and no one knows they came from a thrift shop unless you tell them. Especially for children.

I guess what I am saying is. Don't let money come before anything else. I know what it is like to have it and I know what it is like not too.

I figured that since you mentioned the racing industry.

So you are the,"Little woman"?

Oh yeah, it isn't a sin to be poor. We raised 3 kids and people marvel at there character.

I have felt like a failure and still do because of not having gived them as much as they deserved, but they didn't know they were poor growing up. Until my wife became mentally unstable again,(relapsed into bitterness and toxic friends and drugs), We were considered enviable, took in others, and my children thought that we had it all.

But they knew it when Mom started to fall apart, and can stand on thier own, because I fell apart also. But they are thier own person, and accountable, and while they were young, was the most important time for them to feel secure IMO, because that was when the patterns of thinking, hence feeling and reacting, were formed. They all are well rounded, have good jobs, and are respected. I thank God for that, I am only a part of that, as I told them when they were young, and thought I knew everything.

"If you think I know everything, it only appears that way because I know, I know very little as I am supposed to. I learn as I go in so much, and can follow instruction when I have to. Someday you will have to think and act on your own, and you might think that I know nothing about what is important at all.
My job is to prepare you for that day when your conscience is your guide, and you have to make your own decisions, before God, who I answer to, whithin my conscience. He is my Boss, and I am trying to represent Him, in my love and care for you. The authority of love runs down from Him, believe me, I know what to fear and respect, for your sakes, but for my sake first"

Yet I was surrounded by worry, unessesary troubles from her family and friends, and a wife who could not cope with the world, and refused to live in it realistically, and deal with her insecuritys objectivly with a counsellor and accountability with AA. God forgave her, and she insisted that everybody else did too, but we are not God, and we wern't supposed to be the sacrifice either. What an insult to his Son.

Balance was missing. But back to you.

WHs concepts must change. He must see you as the desirable women and beginning and end of his sexual desire, and keep it there with self control and respect for the marriage. It is Gods institution, and teachs us HOW to love, and it is more than a feeling.

I wasn't able to be on line yesterday, I had an emergency with my elderly mom...I can see I have a lot of reading to catch up on! LOL
You guys are giving some excellent advice here...pepper, you should be a counselor!

I read where you said your husband had sex with you four times in a day...you have been through so much and are having a hard time, he should be going at YOUR pace and understanding/caring about you in all matters, including sex. I am not convinced that he is not a sex addict. There is a questionairre at SARR.org, I would post the link but I don't think we're allowed to, but if you go to addicts and then tests, he can read it and see if it's applicable to him. If so, he really might want to seek some help. My late husband was diagnosed as a sex addict (years before I met him) and got therapy for it. He'd had an upbringing that was very lacking and he had to LEARN to develop empathy and LEARN to develop self-control. He learned stop-thought process. He practiced the things he learned for life. I was so proud of him! He was, by the time I met him, the most caring person I ever met in all regards. It used to bother him that sex had ruled his life (when he was younger) and caused him so many problems, but by the time he met me, the person he'd looked for all of his life, he couldn't "do it" like he wanted to...that often happens as men age, esp. if they have physical things going on, and he was Diabetic, and unbeknownst to us, he had five blocked arteries to his heart, which took his life. I remember just two weeks before he died, he'd been unable to have sex with me, and we were snuggled up together, and he said, "this is nice too, isn't it" and I said, "Yes, George, this is nice" and I thought what a long ways he'd come. He'd accepted things and realized what was important. In the years we were married, he always treated me with regard and care and I saw him always exercise self-control. He avoid movies with anything sexual, even some love scenes that you and I would view as harmless, he was vigilant with what he took in because he knew it would affect his thinking. Even a sex addict can be helped. I would never attempt to diagnose your husband, I don't know enough about him and I'm not qualified, but with what I have learned, and I've done extensive reading with regards to the subject in an effort to understand my (late) husband, he does display some of the signs. It's up to a qualified therapist to ascertain whether he would benefit from therapy or not. Just telling them not to do something is not enough, that's like telling a drug addict, "well just stop doing drugs", it's not as simple as that, oh do we wish it were! You have to be able to help them see they're wired different and help them see they need help and then begin to reprogram their brain and give them tools to use in their lives. It works.

Yea neak-Ive wanted to move bc id love a beautiful house we can afford and to be a sahm...it was my dream. I knew marrying him id probably never leave LA, and that I'd have to work...I gave that up because I loved him and more than that dream I wanted a life with him.

I hope this all works out. As for now we are trying to decide what to do tonight-I told him I just want to be with him-but apparently he doesn't want to decide (surprise).

And of course now we fight about tonight. We agreed to stay home and I'm trying to get him to come up w things to do tonight and he got all mad saying he doesn't know. I told him I just want to have a nice night together and he got all irritated.

I want him to put some effort into rebuilding...why do I ways have to decide everything! I don't want to plan the night...I'm not the one that [censored] thus all up!

He caught me lying on the floor of the shower singing stupid love songs....and I dunno how long he watched me but he got in in his clothes and told me he loved me a bunch of times and hes sorry for all he's put me through....

I just feel like a shell of myself...and if I wasn't good enough at full vibrancy...how is a shell enough?

And of course now we fight about tonight. We agreed to stay home and I'm trying to get him to come up w things to do tonight and he got all mad saying he doesn't know. I told him I just want to have a nice night together and he got all irritated

C & T: quick comment/suggestion about the above that may help as I'm fairly sure Adam and Eve had the first of 100s of thousands of stand-offs such as yours.

We women: "I WANT you to just know and do "it"."
Men: "I am not a mind reader, and whatever I do won't be right."


So, maybe try this as something to POJA. What if you make a list of say, 10 things that you like to do that you would enjoy. Scrabble and a bottle of wine, or a bike ride and ice cream, etc..

Give H the list, and then let him choose which one and plan it. That way, he knows what you want and what you'd enjoy, and can take comfort in knowing that he's not going to get hiss azz chewed as it's not what you wanted. And, you can take comfort in his taking the lead and planning the night.

How does that sound?

I've done HR and I am in charge of procuring medical insurance for the company I work for...if you lose the insurance you're on you do not have to wait for re-enrollment date to enroll in ins at your job. All you need is to show you lost your other ins. Call them and verify this if it makes you feel better. We have offices in three states, it's the same for each.

P.S. I just noticed your ages...not that it matters, but did want to point out that for the rest your very long lives together, what I posted a moment ago is good practice in general. Men are not mind-readers, and (huge generalization) don't enjoy guessing what we want from them. Oft times they're right, aren't they? We say "I want more help around the house", and they clean the garage and get reamed for not dusting.

Help him help you to feel cared for. It's not instinctual...it takes practice from both parties in EVERY marriage.

I just got caught up reading the thread...I can feel for all you are going through and feeling. I understand your anxiety because I have General Anxiety Disorder...I went on Buspirone 3 1/2 years ago and it has been a godsend to me, it started working almost immediately and I plan to never be off of it again, it's inexpensive and very much worth it, I told you about it in an earlier post. Safe and non-addictive.

I am 59, I have been through so much in my life, I could write a book...heck, I could write a whole SERIES! Right now my future is very uncertain...my husband died, the next one was a con that broke my heart and ruined me financially...so now I'm alone, my children are grown and don't live here. My FT job cut my hours...but not my work load...to one day/week. I have a high house payment and houses are NOT selling here. Because of the drop in the market, I'm upside down. My unempl. runs out in 1 1/2 months. It wouldn't take long to get foreclosed on. I have a big dog that means everything to me, I am unwilling to give him up so that means no apartments. BUT I CANNOT WORRY, IT DOES NO GOOD! That does not mean I have not worried, I have done my fair share of waking up at 3:00-5:00 am and imagining myself out on the streets with my dog. Just to say, it's easy to get carried away and stress over what COULD happen, but a helluva lot better to stay in the here and now and deal with what IS. Someone sent you a link to the Serenity Prayer...that's a good one.

My mother is nearly 90 and nuttier than a fruitcake, dementia hasn't helped her mental state any. I understand your not wanting to talk to your mom about it. In light of MY mother, I wouldn't either. Other people don't know what it's like to have a truly crazy mother, you do, you have to act in light of that. If she's not going to be of any help, don't bother with her input. That's just common sense.

Numerous people have pointed out that you need to keep your focus...your priority needs to be your marriage. W/O that, you'll be losing much of the other stuff anyway. If you lose your marriage, you stand to lose the other things you mentioned. Try not to worry about that. Others have already told you, things have a way of working out. Gosh if you don't remind me of a younger version of myself! Maybe that's why I can relate to you and feel for you with all you're going through. Clear down to the stomach hurting. Do whatever you can to de-stress. Your husband created this situation, let HIM work on resolving it. Not to say you aren't a team, you are, but try to focus on who's role is whose. Your role right now is to try and relax, make home a good place to be...let him take on the role of protector and fixer.

Kay- HR told me I can only enroll if he was involuntarily separates-if he quit it doesn't count

Surfer...that's the thing...I DID that. Not in writing bit I listed off a whole bunch.

Ugh.

He planned lunch out, a winery tasting and baking a cake at home together ....that's good (I'd rather not spend so much out but I told him to plan and he did...I'll take it for now)...

He keeps insisting on alcohol though...it just makes me sleepy bc I'm already drained.

Also I made a sexy joke and he made some comment about me not being allowed to touch it...not sure if hes teasing or whaat

Honey, honey, honey...C & T,

He planned lunch out, a winery tasting and baking a cake at home together ....that's good (I'd rather not spend so much out but I told him to plan and he did...I'll take it for now)...

Isn't this a good thing? How did the cake-bake go?

Allow him some points, hon. In fact, a lot of em'. It's hard I know, but you've got to be receptive to his efforts and ALLOW LB$. Don't look at what's wrong with his efforts, but rather what's right and tell him such.

I know that sounds like a pissy way for you right now, but just try it, and remember POJA. You are NOT "giving in", you are fighting for your marriage.

POJA...remember that my friend.

(I'd rather not spend so much out but I told him to plan and he did...I'll take it for now)...

Don't punish him for doing what you asked, CF.

Careful not to discourage behavior you are so in need of.

Just tell him with no anger. Try that.