Ok, so I have been lurking here for a few days. I have read pretty much every article on here and will order the book when I get paid.

Here is my story (long).

The day before halloween last year husband and I got in a fight at a halloween party. When I went home he was asleep in our 8 month olds room. He had left his phone. I clicked the button on it and my world unfolded. I didnt even have to snoop. The convo was there. Kissy faces, pic messages etc. I knew he had been deleting stuff was weird. I confront him, he laughs and tells me I am crazy. Over the course of a week I get more information as I cry and dry heave and vomit each night. Turns from texts to pics, pics to kisses, kisses to sex one time, one time sex to he had been sleeping over and this has been ongoing for months (the talking started while I was still pregnant). Its a girl at work. I find out to many details, even sexual ones. He had been staying over a handful of times at a friends house bc he couldnt drive home but was with her. lunch time rendevous, etc at work. Apparently he told her (and god knows how many other people) at work we had an open marriage. He breaks it off with her but tells her we just stopped being open. I made him tell her the truth. I contacted her. She seemed upset, to hate him. she apologized. I still hated her, shes so stupid. She had been to my house! For New years! UGH. Anyway, it was a long road but we began couplse therapy. Fast forward to this summer and our marriage is better than ever. Cloud 9. JUST this past weekend (about 9 days ago) we spent all day together without the kids (now 5 and 18 months) talking about how great everything is. How happy we both are. How we can take counseling down to like once every 6 weeks just to check in. I am literally happier than in years. I think this affair may have been a blessing, it improved my life despite the hurt.

He never left his job because it is his dream job. Its highly unlikely he will make the same or enjoy it so much anywhere else. My therapist knew he stayed at work. It seemed ok (obviously reading here I see that was the wrong thing).

So Weds of last week he tells me we need to talk but not to worry its nothing. I freak out tell my friend. She texts him, and he tells her "oh no things are better than ever, i just need her to know something". So he comes to my work and tells me he has feelings for OW and hasnt been with her since but he thinks he loves her. He wants to go to his own counselor to sort through and he is telling me so we can work. I am so upset I dont go home until after he is in bed. The next day I text him "I feel like there is more - like youve been with her" and he says "I dont know how to tell you this-yes" I FLIP. I spend the next 12 hours crying on the floor of my office. Texting her rage, texting him rage. threatening, yelling, screaming. She is really snide with me and says he loves her and he wont stay away, he pursued her and he wont stay away, love doesnt go away because he says so and he told her he was telling me to be with her. He tells me he needs to know what Im going to do. To me this sounds like if I say im done, he goes with her. I tell him Im not going to ask him to stay, I wont beg, I wont fight, He can just go. He begs please no.

He goes with her on his lunch break and breaks it off. She texts me and her tone changes that I can just have him whatever but she still loves him and "I gave up once and it wasnt easy, and im going to fight because I cant go throguh this every year" [censored] YOU. Anyway, she tells him when he breaks it off "well im giving her my email password" and she does. Its awful, mostly sex. But at the end alot of her getting mad that she only has a boyfriend for 30 minutes before work and at lunch. she says "shes had 8 years with you and ive gotten only 2 of emails, i deserve a chance. I dont get sleepovers and dinners, i just get emails" so she pushed him for more. He tells her in email hes telling me to "do whats right for us" who us? them us? I dont know. SOunded to me like he was saying hed tell me so they could have their lives. But when he told me it was "im telling you so I can fix our marriage."

Its been a few dyas. He sleeps on the couch. He says he will look for a nwe job, is finding a counselor, is reading this website. He says he loves me and he isnt sure what he feels for her, he thought it was love. He thinks he has a sex addiction. He always pushes me for sex 2-3 times a day, constant. I cant give in that much. It got to the point where he just BOTHERS me until I give in even if I dont want. He says he felt unloved and we werent ok, and that he shouldnt have to tell me - but I said how can I know if you say "its great" that really you arent in love? Anyway, I find out he started emailing her 4/29 this year. so the affair was only over for 6 months.; the emails to her start with hey how are you and in 2 emails turn to what panties are you wearing, i want to jump you, your my ninja girlfriend whatever. There are pics. Pics he sent to her and to me. (same as last time). he had a key to her house and was leaving extra early for work to go there and having lunch there. He told her outside of 7-4 was his families time and she couldnt contact him.

He keeps going back and forth that he loves me and cant be without me, and even though he told her he saw a future with her, that never didnt include me. He goes back and forth from I love you I know what I want, to Im confused and not sure what Im feeling. I want to know an answer. I dont want I dont know or Im unsure I want to stay married - that makes me insulted and like the answer is no.

I am so lost. I really love him. My friends say if I stay, I am being a doormat, and I am acceptying that I will eventually get a disease, or he will get someone pregnant, or I will cotninue this pattern. Im so lonely. At home at night I want to be held. I want him to come to bed but I dont ask. I want to cuddle on the couch. Am I blind? Stupid? Pathetic?

I said I was just going to not make a decision and see how his therapy played out...but I cant just sit around like this. And everything is moving to slow. I want answers.

He says he does not contact her at all. I have his email coming to my phone, I check phone logs daily. The phone logs and bank statements have been clear this whole time. He never spent money on her or the affair at all. the phone records where a mess last time but clear this time. He made a separate email and they where communiacting that way like text but on email. How doI even know he doesnt have another email on his phone?

Im hiding all this from my kids. Im scared. Im lonely. I dont know what decision to make. Im scared if I stay my friends will abandon me and I will just allow him to hurt me.

I dont know what to do this minute let alone with my life. I dont know what to say, how to act. If I hug him is that wrong or right? If I love him is that wrong or right? Do I ask him to go stay somewhere else? What if he runs to her arms. I dont know what to do. Hes so confusing.

I'm so lost. I know he must leave his job and get counseling...its just so slow. We wont make it if he just quits. And if I divorce him, him not having income will affect my child support. He has to find a job before he can quit.

Im rambling. Im sorry. Please help Im drowning.

Details:
Other woman is his coworker (age 32)
*also OW says she is ok w being the gf and he can stay w me. HOW [censored] UP IS SHE?!
2 kids: 5 and 18 months (girls)
together 8 years, married 4
I'm 25, he's 24 almost 25
we own our home, dual income. We make the same about.

Not sure what other details.

The first time all our friends knew and one of his cousins. No other family. I cant tell my parents, my mom is unstable and seriously might committ a crime. I told my grandma this time and he his brother. Only a few of my friends know so far.

Everyone in my life besides 1 person is telling me to leave. Kick him out, file for divorce, etc. Im so torn.

At night he hugs me and says he loves me.

I'm also so confused bc it seemed so good....the repeat doesn't make sense. Does the repeat doom me for life?

He's on of the best men I know- he was always a role model husband...we get along so well. If you erased these 2 affairs, and the excessive pressure for sex, my marriage is better than any I know. I'm so lost hurt confused. I dint know which way is up and it seems every thought decision action word is wrong and hurtful one way or another. I can't win

confusedandtorn, it is real important that you make plans to separate and get away from him. This is critical to your mental health. Your husband is extremely abusive and will not stop. It is in your best interest to get away from him before you have a nervous breakdown.

I would pack his bags and ask him to leave today. Get him out of your house and change the locks. Once you do that we will help you with next steps. By allowing this to go on like this, you are essentially enabling him and making this worse. He is getting his needs met in TWO places so he has no motivation to stop. You are endangering your mental health by allowing this go on.

You must also expose this affair to everyone. Call his parents, your parents, close friends and family. Ask them all to call him and use their influence to persuade him to end his affair. Do a formal exposure to the workplace. Expose to all the OW's family and friends on facebook.

Your husband is not a good man. A good man does not abuse his wife like this and jeopardize his the safety and security of his children so he can chase skanks. A good man is not a liar and a cheater.

Please go and pack his clothes.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, confused.

I wish you'd gotten here sooner! Once again, we have a therapist giving horrible support to spouses in crisis.

Sadly, as you've seen, adulterers cannot work together. If you want even a remote shot at recovering your marriage, your WH is going to have to leave that job. And none of this business with looking for work, sending out resumes, etc. He needs to quit that job today.

Has this affair been exposed to their employer? That needs to happen. How about the OW? Is she married? Boyfriend? Do you have her whole name? We can tell you how to track down her family and let them know what nastiness their relative is up to.

He is eyeball-deep in affair-fog. And he will remain that way as long as he's getting a daily dose of his addiction/OW.

Baloney. He's in daily contact with her. All he has to do is see her across the room to be triggered. He will have to have NO CONTACT with her. FOR LIFE. As you have seen, his best attempt to end the affair and remain in the same workplace has been a big bust. Try as he might, it's not a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN, the affair goes full-blown once again.

Whether or not you want to remain in this marriage is up to you. However, I wouldn't even consider it as long as they are working together.

I'm confused. I thought MB does not promote leaving and abandoning if the cheating spouse ends the affair?

He hasn't ended the affair. Please understand that. As long as they are working together the affair is ON.

Inhave her whole name. Her address. Her number. She is single but dates. She "does not believe in possession". Even if he left me for her shed still see other people. I think a big part of this ismshe is just willing to screw him constantly. Like 3 times a day. At his beck and call.

If he quits our mortgage won't get paid...whether I kick him out or not, we need a roof.

Your H has not ended his affair. He sees his OW every day at work. What MB advocates is that you go into Plan B.

I'm not trying to make excuses...but I only have a few thousand in savings... Like maybe enough to cover 1.5 months of his income. Plus I lose my car (company car) and inurance. If I do all that I'll not only be getting divorce, I'll be homeless with 2 kids

Can you cover the mortgage if you divorce? Because that's where you're headed if you remain complacent and hope for the best while the two of them are cozying up at work (and in her bed) together.

Go and find her facebook page and copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD doc. Try and ID her parents and family members.


Of course. So he will have to find another job. But he needs to MOVE OUT until that happens.

I cannot pay the mortgage without his income for more than a month, maybe 2. And that will drain every penny we have.

So I'm supposed to kick him out until he finds another job? He says he will quit. He says he can put in notice. He has been looking.

Looking for like 2 days. The first time I did t ask him to leave his job

Oh no, he will have to continue to pay the bills. Don't worry about that. Kick him out and then we will help you fashion a letter to give to him that lays out that he will have to continue paying the bills. You will also designate an intermediary who will act as your go between and set up child visitation.

Your H cannot legally just stop paying your bills. If he does stop, you can file for divorce and any judge will force him to support pay the bills.

An affair/adultery/philandering/boinking/kissing/sex will only end when NO CONTACT for life happens.

His affair fog has him fantisizing/dreaming/getting delusional as long as he is triggered by it.

Triggering can happen by PHYSICAL CONTACT/PHOTOS/TEXT/TELEPHONE/FACEBOOK/WINDOW PEEKING/HALL GLANCING/LUNCH GAZING/SPEAKING ABOUT IT/FRIENDS/CHAIRS/TABLES/COMPUTERS/ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE ASSOCIATED TO THIS SORDID ADULTERY!!!

Get ready for Plan B. This boy of a husband of yours needs a dose of reality. What life would look like without you his devoted/beloved/faithful/loving/caring wife and your girls.

Tough~

I would suggest that you take all your family money and put it in an account that he can't access. Waywards have been known to clean out family accounts to finance their affair.

You're not going to be homeless. Have you no family who could take you in, worst-case scenario?

Don't let fear dictate your actions, confused. You need to stand up straight and make your demands clear. You need to demand that your WH quit that job today. Or he should get out of the house.

I know what I'm talking about. My H had a workplace affair. It was exposed to his employer and ended that day. The OW quit the job and left. My H tried to end the A on his own before exposure and couldn't do it. Just knowing she was down the hall from him was a trigger that kept pulling him back into the swamp.

If you want to save your M, that is. Your call.

I'm saying if I make him quit his job, or ask, the. He leaves with no income. Not even unemployment. Then there is no money. And I lose my car bc it is a work benefit. And insurance bc it is his work benefit.

He said he will continue to pay my mortgage if I ask him to leave. Not to mention I manage every cent of our money. He doesn't even know what we have in savings or how much our bills are. He wouldn't know where to start

After you pack his clothes, I would start making phone calls and expose this affair.

Call these people up and tell them about his affair and ask them to speak to him. Ask them to use their influence to persuade him to stop his adultery. ASK YOUR MOTHER IN LAW TO CALL THIS HO AND TELL HER TO BUZZ OFF:

1.his parents
2. your parents
3. his grandparents
4. any close siblings or friends

Send a facebook letter via PM to the skank's family and friends - SPACE THEM 60 SECONDS APART SO YOU DON'T GET SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING:

Facebook exposure suggestions. First thing: go to the OP�s facebook page and copy and paste all their contacts into a word doc. This is real important because when you start exposure, you can expect the target to shut down the page.

When you expose on facebook, you should select key targets and send them a private message. Do not write this on a wall because it will be buried and ignored. Space your private messages out 60 seconds so fb does not shut you down for flooding. Make sure your full name shows up on facebook. Change your picture to one of you and your spouse and make sure there are several pictures of your children that are visible to the public.



Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW

This is very good. You can pay the mortgage for two months? If he doesn't quit the job today, kick him out. Call a real estate agent and put the house up for sale. You've got two months to sell it and still be paying the mortgage. If the house doesn't sell in two months, you still have plenty of time to stall a foreclosure action. Those actions can take half a year or more.

In the meantime, you can talk to an attorney to help you understand all of your options.

My mother might take usnin temporarily, but that would be disastrous for all of our mental health. She is an abuser and a pain pill addict. I have nonother family. My grandma who knows about this lives in a sr home apt. I have no one else.

He would have to find another job before he quits. And it won't matter much if he does lose that job because when you are divorced you won't benefit from that job anyway. You are headed for divorce now.

I did put in a consultation request with an attorney to see if my moving money is ok. I'm giving my gma 500 to put away for me.

I'm upside down on my house.... I owe 291 and it's worth about 250. How can this all happen? And bad housing market and job market aren't helping

Then send this letter [change to suit your situation] to your H's employer, to the Director of HR, a key VP and both of their supervisors. Be sure and cc them all.

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney � be sure and send this letter to the Director of HR, a key company VP and supervisors of the affairees, ccing them all on this letter. It is important to cc them so that no one is tempted to toss the letter:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

Are you reading our posts?

Ok so you are saying find a job before he quits and everyone else says he quits today or else basically.

I can add myself and kids (and him) to my health insurance but it will cost me 500/mo. $50 I already dont have. And with possible divorce legal fees living on my own loss of his income... Plus therapy costs.

It's just so much.

Yes melody whAt do you mean?

Ok do I send that letter without him knowing? Could that cause more harm?

Pack his clothes and ask him to move out. Do that first and then we will help you write a letter telling him he will have to get another job and end all contact.

Ok I copied the letter. I'm sending it. Today.

And I need to start contacting his family.

I'm so afraid about what to do about the job.

Is this even worth saving?

If he quits and everything...is that a sign it's worth saving?

\

Of course it does not cause harm, that is silly. And of course you don't tell him in advance.

Ok. I'm sending it.

If he quits his job today do I still kick him out? What about my kids?

It can be worth saving if he ends his affair and finds another job. Right now there is nothing to save because your marriage is effectively over.

We are trying to give you the best chance of saving it while protecting your mental health.

And please make sure that your family members CALL HIM and try to persuade him to end his affair and leave the job. You need to make sure he knows they all know. Everyone should know.

Pack his clothes and ask him to move out. Tell him you will have nothing to do with him as long as he continues to see the OW. Tell him this is profoundly hurtful and disrespectful to you and that you will not live like this.

What about your kids? Any child over the age of 4 should be told TODAY all their dad's affair and what he is doing to your family.

And do this with COMPOSURE, CALMNESS AND DIGNITY. No crying, no whining, no pleading. Just tell him you will not live like this one more day. It is too painful. If he cares about you, he will comply and move out TODAY.

Suck it up and keep your emotions in check. Can you do that?

My daughter is 5. She isn't ready.

Mail or email the letter?

I have another job secured for him with family.

I don't know if I can. I don't even know if I can ask him to get out

I have a contact at his work who is getting me hrs info.

Ok

1. Send letter
2. Give $ to my gma
3. Tell him to quit his job or get out

Oh tell family

I would email the letter so it goes out today. You want this all to hit on the same day. Be SURE and send it to several people and make sure you show the cc's on it.

Can you go on the website and get the email address of a key VP and both of their bosses?

And copy and paste the OW's fb contacts into a text doc. Can you find her on facebook?

Ok I asked my friend at his work.

My gma lined up another job for him

Yes, you can. You can do all of this. I know it is hard but your children need you to put aside your fears and stand up for your marriage today. What you are doing is in the best interest of their family.

You don't have the luxury of giving into your fears today. Today, you have to put aside your fears and do what is right for your family.

Yes, you can do this.

Yes ok. Not sure I can see her friends list. Can I post her name here?

oh no, don't post her name here. Keep trying to find her friends list.

Good! So you can tell him he can leave that job today or hit the road! But, you need to have his bags packed and tell him what I said so he will see you are serious.

Question: when I send this letter today...if he gets fired...would he qualify for unemployment?

I guess it doesn't matter. I want to send the letter 1st.

Vp and hr...not their bosses and hr?

Btw her sister and best friend know what she's doing and her parents are dead

VP, HR and their bosses. And cc them all so they all know the other was notified.

Do you see her family on her facebook list? And how do you know her parents are dead? I would expose the affair to any family members and married people.

Send out that letter to some key people on her facebook.

THEN, get on the phone and start calling family members. You want this all to hit him today like a tsunami.

What is his mother like? Will she pay a visit to that skankho?

If he is typical, he will go ahead an move out, at least for a while. If he does, do not fear. He is just being normal, for a wayward.

Just in case he is not typical, it would be good for you to have a list - only a STARTING point - as to what it would take, today, for him to stay.

The starting point would be:

1. Quit the job immediately, since he already has one to go to.
2. Agree to No Contact for life, and write out a No Contact letter and give it to you to mail.
3. Change all phone numbers, email addresses, close any door she might use to try and get in touch with him.
4. Agree to do anything and everything else you need from him in order for you to feel safe.

There will be more detail to your boundaries than that, and you will find help here to know everything he needs to do. But if he balks at anything on that first list, you will automatically know he isn't ready yet, and needs to leave.

Ok. I doubt he will leave. He may and I'll be ok but I doubt it. He's a wuss.

Do u have such a letter? Can you help me make a bigger list?

Ok I'm waiting for emails but the letter is written.

I have therapy at 1230 but I can make calls between. I'm scared and excited

His mother is complacent. She dealt this [censored] with his dad (although they never married). She is immature.

Ok friends list copied

Ask her to support your family and her grandchildren by calling the OW and asking her to leave her son alone. She can tell the OW that she has no future in their family and will never darken her doorstep. Also ask her to call her son and talk some sense into him.

Can you ID her family members?

Go change your facebook picture to one of you, your H and your kids. Then send them private messages - SPACE THEM 60 SECONDS APART SO YOU DON'T GET SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING.


Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW

I went in his email...he opened monster job accounts yesterday. Positive sign?

Niiice ok I'll pm them all. But at home. That's to much to do ob my iPad and I can't use work computer for fb.

Oh and her mom died whe. She was little and her dads been sick during this affair. He's either dead or in hospice. She has a sister w 2 nephews whose a [censored] up and she has her nephews most of the time.

Her best friend (male) met w Wh and told Him to leave skank (surprise best guy friend also sleeping w skank)

I would remove those names and the cuss words. Target any aunts, uncles, grandparents, sisters, brothers, cousins, married people.

And that is fine if you can't expose to her facebook today. You can focus on calling family and friends and getting him moved out.

I would pack his bags and ask him to leave.. Tell him you need him out, that his presence is too painful for you.

Did you send the workplace exposure letter yet? If you are waiting for email addresses, you can probably find them on their website or call the front desk. You should be able to get the names of the HR director and a key VP on their website. Have you looked?

confused, when your husband starts getting calls from his family and his supervisor, he will go ballistic on you. You can expect him to say crazy things like "I was going to give you a chance, now I'm not." "you are mean" "its all over now" blah, blah, blah. It is just as if you took the crackpipe away from the crack head.

So, don't be surprised and DO NOT LET IT BOTHER YOU ONE BIT. You just tell him you sure are sorry he is upset but you feel everyone should know about his affair. You will not hide it.

And if he says "our marriage is over," just tell him yes, you agree it is over and until he leaves that job and ends all contact, there is nothing to save. Since it is over as you say, please take your bags and LEAVE NOW.

Don't laugh, [and it will be funny!] don't fight, don't try to reason with him. Don't let him bait you into a bait. It will blow over.

I just want to reassure you about exposure. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, has saved thousands of marriages over the years and here is what he says:

here

p.s. you are doing great!! Way to man up, my friend!

Ok I'm scared but Im doing it. Hr knows I'm reading this site and said " so do I quit today? " and I said "yes"

Just got emails. Sending it.

is your husband reading here?

He says he's going to work tom quit. I blurted "no wait til imhave therapy" (in 30m) what's wrong w me?!?!?!

If he goes in and twllsnhis boss the situation and quits...do u think he'd ever be able to return there? He leaving no ifs and or butts. But am I destroying his shot at other jobs? This will putnhis,leaving on bad terms

No not in here. But I linked him articles

Should I not? I thought it was supposed to help couples?

Can someone link me to the no contact letter?

Yes this site is wonderful for couples. Right now you and scuzz-hubby do not jointly qualify for that title.

Listen to the advice you've been given. You're on the right track. But keep him away from here until you two are firmly recovered.

Call him back and tell him to quit. This has nothing to do with therapy, your marriage depends on him leaving that job and ending ALL contact with that ho.

What caused him to suddenly quit?

It does help couples. But we can't help you if your husband is reading here.

Did you send the emails exposing them at work?

It might be better to print some articles out to him. You don't want him to see you posting here, because if he knows what you will do in advance, he will prepare himself and other people not to believe you if you expose.

I think (but I'm not from the US) that it is unimportant if he quits or is sacked, because as I understand you have a new job waiting for him. If he quits himself it may affect his unemployment benefits, but you will have to ask or google that yourself, I live in Europe and am not familiar with the situation in the US.
Anyway, quitting himself will look better on his resume than being laid of for having improper relations with a coworker.

no contact letter
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2524008

You are doing great. Even if he is quitting his job now, exposuree is important, because it helps block the way back to the other W and gives him a dose of reality.

Take care,

Happyheart

Should I wait to and the letter until he quits? I had to rush to therapy. My therapist thinks it will do only harm no good. I'm not sure (different therapist than the couples one).

I hate this. I feel so helpless

I just feel Ill.

He wants to come talk to me in 1.5 hrs

Your therapist does not have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and is giving you bad advice. WE DO know how to save marriages. We have saved our marriages. SEnd the letter. Exposure is the most powerful weapon you have against this affair.

Dr Harley is a clinical PSYCHOLOGIST [much more credentialed than a therapist] who has saved thousands of marriages using these tactics and here is what he says:

Can you stay focused on your plan? Don't get distracted. Expose his affair and move forward.

I don't know. I haven't sent the letter. I haven't called anyone.

2 hours ago he was going to quit his job...now he wants to come to my work in 1.5hours to talk. I'm anxious and tell him so and I said "if you are going to say you want her/your job/ divorce just say." and he said he doesn't know what he's doing.

I hate everything.

Hate and anxiety and pain. I can barely breath.

I wouldn't even know what to say to his family. And there's a ton. Mom dad 7 aunts cousins ugh.

I'm so lost. My therapist also said 2 mistakes are not a mistake

What if the plan is wrong? How do I know what to do

And I don't want to make him stay of it will be a lifetime of this. Fml

What is the "mistake?"

confused, I am going to take one last shot at this and then I am giving up. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I want you to think about something. Your "therapist" does not have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and is giving you reckless advice. To tell you to help your husband hide the affair will only serve to ENABLE the affair.

Dr Harley, on the other hand is a clinical psychologist, the founder of MArriage Builders who SPECIALIZES in infidelity. He has saved thousands of marriages using these tactics. Your therapist has saved none and knows nothing about how to save a marriage.

Those of us who are posting to you have saved our own marriages using these tactics. Dr Harley is not lying when he says:


Now, if you would rather take the advice of an unqualified, inexperienced "therapist" over a clinical psychologist with a long successful track record, then there is nothing more I can do to help. I feel like I have wasted my time here today. I gave it my best shot.

That's really mean. I don't know what to do. I'm lost and confused and scared. I'm afraid of more damage than good. I can barely breath.

I'm not saying Im not listening, I'm just confused. I think that's reasonable to be confused and lost. And I'm getting advice from every which way and I'm scared.

I gave it my best shot. It is up to you to take it or leave it.

Good luck.

He's coming here...and I don't know what to say. I made my list. I know he must quit. My chest hurts and I'm afraid.

And I just keep thinking "I can't MAKE him stay" his wishy washy hurts.

If he won't quit today ...or says he isn't sure...I'll tell him to Pack up. Or I'll do it once home

I think that's horrible. I thought this was a place to come try to get support and help and feel like I'm not crazy. Just the opposite feels to have happened. Just because I haven't sent a letter yet

confused, I believe I have supported you. I have spent hours today posting to you. Was my time and effort "horrible?" There is nothing more I can do except wish you luck. Now it is up to you to take it or leave it.

I do have my own life to live and have nothing more to give. Now, it is up to you.

perhaps ow will quit and/or get fired?

---
And I just keep thinking "I can't MAKE him stay" his wishy washy hurts.

If he won't quit today ...or says he isn't sure...I'll tell him to Pack up. Or I'll do it once home
---

You are right. He has to make a decision. No matter, what he tells you, it will amount to either one of these two things:

1
I want to keep you and our family, but her too

2
I am seriouw about us and am giving op her and the job to save my family.

In case 1, you already know, deep in your heart what to do. Not doing anything hasn't helped. If 1, then you have all the more reason to expose and get his family to help you. Use this power. Let others talk sense into him. You know that is your best shot.

In case 2, you won't have to quit his job for him. Because he will do it freely. But you are stil not there yet. Because he is like an addict. He may want to stay with you and the childen, but he is addicted to her and the needs she meets. That's the sad truth. And to keep many eyes on him, to keep him accountable and to let the light of day shine on the affair, you expose it to people who will help keep the affair dead. Who will keep an eye on him and who will provide moral support to you.

He is living his fantasy life, having sex, having a family, he is having a great time. But if the world is looking over his shoulder, he sees more clearly that what he is doing is hideous. That is what exposure is supposed to do. To hold him accountable.

Look, therapists are masters at keeping everyone happy and causing no friction. But in the case of an affair, the no friction thing is only keeping the affair alive, at least in his head. If his family comes crashing down on him, his mother is disappointed, his friends are asking him why he endangers his family, that is where he starts to see himself through the eyes of others who are not in the fog.

Of course that is not nice for him. But it is neccessary to get some sense into him. The same is done with drug addicts. It is called an intervention, where the whole family sits down with the addict and convinces him to get help. That is what exposure is about. And so that you won't have do act as everything is OK. because it is not. You need support too.

Exposure will do that if it is done befor he gets the chance to spin the story with you as the wicked witch and him as the sad but good-willed husband, who finally for the first time in his life found some love. Beat him to it.

I know Melodylane can be very direct and may not seem to be patient, but she has seen many people just do nothing and freezing like a rabbit in the headlights and doing nothing - and getting nowhere.

Just hear what your husband has to tell, but do not let him deceive you. It is either you and your family or nothing. Not thinking time or anything. He has had long enough to think. Decision time is now and you have a plan either way.

I must be going to bed now. I will pray for you.

God bless,

Happyheart

Not that you care ... But he's packing his bags

And I'm on the phone w his mom

From my thread:

Wow, Confused. You're in a serious Betrayed Spouse fog all your own.

Not much we can do for you when you won't listen.

I wish you all the best with your own plan. You'll need it.

We care. Tell us what is going on. What everyone is saying is a drug addict took over your husbands body. Of course he was happy for the last year... he had his drug and his family. Drug addicts will say and do anything to get that high. The only way to recovery is to break the addiction.

Many waywards have come here and thanked the board for the advice they gave there spouses but. ONLY AFTER they have been off the drug long enough to see the damage. I will see if I can find some posts for you but please keep exposing.

Please please please listen to what Melody has told you. She isn't mean, she is just blunt and she has seen this played out 100s of times....she knows what MUST be done to have a shot at saving your marriage.

Why is he leaving? Did you tell him to go? Did he refuse to quit his job immediately?

You should read my thread.

You will understand what it is that you have to do to fix this- because wishing and hoping, and waiting for a wayward spouse to do the right thing- isn't a plan.

The people here saved my marriage, and they helped me save me.

They are offering you the same chance. You have to step up and do it. It isn't easy, but nothing worth fighting for ever is.

They aren't asking you to do anything that they haven't done themselves.

I did what they told me to. Will you?

It isn't easy. It will probably be the hardest thing you've ever done. But you CAN do it. And you will feel better once it is done. You must have some mental relief...

confused, CALM DOWN. It's clear from your one- and two-sentence postings that you are PANICKING. STOP IT.

Let the cheating [censored] leave. Let him see what it's like without you. Why do you think he's stayed with you? Because you've been supplying the bulk of his needs. My money is on his return within 48 hours. And I suspect it will be less than that. You need to be ready when he returns.

You need to get a plan and go forward with it, WITHOUT PANIC.

First of all, stop throwing your money away on that lame-brain therapist! He probably decided to become a therapist because he couldn't pass his CPA exam.

Next: EXPOSE THEM AT THEIR JOB.

Expect him to flip out. You've just turned the light on in the crack house. And addicts just hate to have the light of reality shining on them.

STAY CALM. Tell him what he needs to do to earn the right to return to you.

You are lashing out at the very people who have given you the best possible advice you can get. Act on it. We know where you are because we have been there and have come out on the other side.

You don't feel bad because of us.

You feel bad because of what your husband is doing to you.

There is a huge, giant, gaping, as wide as the Grand Canyon differemce.

AS an aside?

I had a therapist tell me that my husband's mistress was probably a better match for him than I was. She was super duper helpful.

I wouldn't put too much stock in a traditional therapist. My experiences have taught me that it's the methods on here that get the job done.

Ok I told everyone I can think of and asked for help. His mom dad cousins friends brother

He's packing bc I calmly sat here and said "I want my marriage. If you want this marriage-which means only me...then you have to quit your job #1"

He said he can't decide and so I said then you have to pack. So he is.

I'm trying to send the letter. I am. I'm trying. Right now.

I'm going to keep calling people. I have toget my kids. He asked to say bye and tell them hes going on a trip...so he will be headed out when I get home. Is that ok?

I am panicking. Still. Im trying. I kept from crying while he was here. Tears welling yes. But I breathed

Here is one thing to read, you might have heard some of these last year.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2549782#Post2549782

Tell the children the truth before he gets to them.

Let them know that you will do your very best to save their family.

He's asking you to be a liar to your children. Absolutely not! How old are they? If they are over the age of 4 you should explain to them in age-appropriate language that daddy and a woman at work have been doing things that only married people should do, and that it is wrong for daddy to do that with anyone but mommy. Don't lie to your children!

confused, before you send any letter to anyone, post it here. We've got to get you settled down, girl. We'll read it and help you write it so you can get the best bang for the buck.

And you've got to slow down - yes, this exposure has to happen, but you've got to do this when your emotions have steadied enough to not sound like a lunatic wife going off half-cocked. Take the time to post the letter here - that will help you get your thoughts ordered.

I know I seem to be asking a lot of you right now, but you've got to muster up some spine, here. I think you've got it in you or I wouldn't waste my time on your thread.

Your next job on your list is to show us your exposure letter. Post it and we'll talk further.

Good for you in exposing and laying down the law on what you expect! We all know how hard this is to do because we have been where you are. Your heart is pounding, hands shaking and you cant breathe, your guts are being used as a doormat - yet you have to get the job done and stand up for your marriage.

You are getting the best advice on here by the way - the most experienced vets without whom I would still be sobbing each night while being actively cheated on.

Have you exposed to everyone? Dont forget their job and OWs family/spouse/facebook friends. Have you done ALL this exposure?

Do it before they can spin you as a jealous spouse who is talking crazy. Exposure is ideally done to everyone in the same day so they have no chance to prevent it or turn people against you.

Good luck and godspeed!

I do too. Yes please post your exposure letter here. My first draft was a horror and I write for a living! The cool heads on here have it whittled down to a fine art though.

Ah, I see now that MelodyLane has already given you the exposure letter for their employer. Get your names in there and get those out.

Hi there and welcome to your safe place, you are doing a great job getting control of this situation, your marriage can be saved with a good solid plan MelodyLane is the best and so far you have followed her advice.
In the meantime read all you can about this site and educate yourself with what your husband will say to you, they all say the same things, it's like they have a script, just keep repeating you want to save your marriage and you are doing what you have to so that can happen......
one day at a time here..........time takes care of the stress......right now you have to stay strong .....and firm but in a calm controlled kind of way...
talk to you soon.

Ok he left. He just told them he has to go. 18months and just turned 5. <kids

I've told all the family I can as calm as possible. He took all his guns to his dads. He went to his cousins w his brother...and now hes going to talk to his mom.(hearing through his brother)

His brother and my sil are here.

I didn't send the letter. I'm scared but I need to I know. And I need to work on fb for her.

Be strong . You are doing great.

And his behavior tonight should show you that he had no intention of ending this affair on his own. He would have been torturing you.

So good for you. You are taking control of your own life .

And a man who walks out on his babies is a man so deep in the fog that they need this kind of action on your part to yank him out.

Amen to that!

Send the letters, all of them.

It is nessesary to snap him back into reality.

Im having an awful time. I'm so upset I want to call him. I'm trying to be strong. His mom is very supportive as is his brother and my sil. Brother andmsil where here until late.

Theynsay they don't know who he is. Can't see him when they look in his eyes. I'm so afraid this means he won't come back. It hurts so bad.

Most of the rest of the family say they support me not him and they will talk to him and "see where his head is". People seemed uncomforatable to get involved. 1 cousin told me it would do more harm telling then aunts because they will bug him and push him more away.

The cousin whose house he went to is ignoring me. I said "I know your response to me was "your on your own" but can you just tell me of he's safe?" no reply. Husband took allmhis guns which scares me.

Im sorry for typos. I'm on the iPad...he took his laptop.

I need to do her friends list tomorrow. What now?

I'm trembling and terrified. So scared. I don't even know how to move...I'm so confused.

I hope he comes back

His mom says he is planning to stop by and see the girls tomorrow. Maybe talk to me. What do I do?

Maybe it doesn't look like it is having an effect on him, but it is. How would you feel if you had a nice new boyfriend and your family started bugging you to lose him? You would probably fall out of cloud 7 (or was it 9?).

O, the reality of it is coming crashing down on him allright. You are not the only one who is majorly stressed out right now. He is too, I can assure you that. As long as he is with his cousin, I suppose the cousin will keep him from doing dumb things.

Look, you know him best. If he lost it, you cannot let him see the girls without someone present. And you certainly want to make sure that he doesn't bring any guns. It is not typical for a man to commit suicide/murder if he gets to choose between his wife and his lover. It yould be more typical if wife doesn't want reconcilliation and he is left with nothing. But I would be a bit worried too, just in case. Better safe than sorry.

I know that many people do not want to get involved, because it requires them to do things that they find difficult. That doesn't mean they don't see your point though. Be glad that his family is trying to talk some sense into him. Many families tell him to do whatever makes him happy.

If his family is behind you, maybe you could meet in their presence? (if you do, make sure you do not love bust - after all they are his family - and calmly tell him what it takes for your marriage and family to heal.

God bless you, and your brave actions. You have really stood up for your family.

Happyheart

Neak posted you her list - what she required for reconciliation. Maybe you want to read it before speaking with your husband.

OK, calm down! I was in EXACTLY the same position as you in July, and also have 2 DD, 5 and 18 months. The same emotional state of hurt and stress. Right now I'm in the best place i could ever be! Somehow I think I got the better end of the deal

It is very nerving to expose, but realize, that the anger only comes from people who are at fault and got caught. My OWs threatened to sue me for libel/harassment, that was really funny. Providing me with free evidence? Go right ahead, make my day!

Exposure turns the table. You have been suffering in silence and the emotional abuse of the affair, probably accompanied by verbal abuse (my WH was an absolute AZZ to our 5 year old for as long as he was in the affairs and I decided then, without knowing about the affairs, that for my daughters sake, I needed to end the marriage).

All of a sudden you find that there are a bunch of people who support you. There will be some people who don't, but it shortly will become very clear that those people are often in active affairs themselves . From the victim, you turn into the person in charge of your own future. I can't remember how many times I've heard 'good for you for telling'!

You need to empower yourself for your children. It sucks BIG time at first, but no matter how bad it was then (and I received death threads), I would do it over and over and over and over and over again. Had I known then what I know now, I would have been more confident about it too.

It may not safe your marriage, but in the end, it will safe your sanity and emotional wellbeing.

I made it through because of the support here. When I doubted, they set me straight, when I was sad, they comforted me. In the end, I now have a good life, and they are still in the gutter. He who laughs last, laughs best! So listen to the advice given and welcome the support. YOU will end up on the better side of it, and that is what your girls need, whether it is with a RECOVERED marriage or not, they need a RECOVERED mother.

O, and DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT EVERYTHING

even if you think now that it is not important, write it down. Write it down in a calender, print everything so you have a hard copy, and put it in a safe place

Paper doesn't forget, but you are stressed and your mind may forget lots of stuff. Paper doesn't lie and doesn't forget. And the more you have, the more the courts and other people are going to be on your side.

So let me repeat

DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,

Remember that a wayward can not tell the truth, so you must tell the truth and only the truth, don't let yourself be discredited.

Lies can not be backed up by evidence, the truth always can, so make sure you have the evidence. By making sure you have the evidence and providing it to the right people at the right time, the world of the wayward will crumble. They become outcasts, they are going to claim you are emotionally unstable, but by providing the documented truth, the tables turn on them. Eventually they have to live with themselves.

AND

ALL waywards at some point throw each other in front of the bus. It is going to happen. WH essentially provided me with all the evidence for my 'alienation of affection' lawsuit.

AGAIN

DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENT,

I'm not saying you are heading for divorce, but in case that is happening, YOU need to make sure you get the best deal and are protected for your girls. And by documenting you are empowering you, for what ever may come in your future! Do not let some piece of trash destroy your life!

No matter what consequences, no matter what fallout, no matter how many days you go without hearing from him,

it is not your fault.

You are worth more than he was giving you. You are worth more to be emotionally abused and gaslighted. More than one BW has been driven to the brink of suicide by allowing themselves to remain too long in the middle of their WH's active A. You not only have yourself, but your girls to think about.

Be strong. Do not back down until he is totally on board with NC and recovery. Otherwise you are teaching those lovely little girls that it's ok to let their future boyfriends and husbands treat them like this, and without consequences.

If you are at all worried about his mental state with the guns, do not allow him to see the girls unsupervised. Maybe your parents would agree to be there. You need to see to their safety.

WH? He is in God's capable hands.

His brother and mom are on my side 100 percent. The cousin he is staying w....well he said "your on your own" which of course I feel crappy. His other cousins agreed to talk w him... They didn't say what they would say though.

His mom told me he won't leave his job, but apparently he sugarcoated the affair. When my bil started giving her the details she said if he leaves me for her, she might cut him off. I doubt she would but maybe for a bit.

His brother had to hold me uncontrollably sobbing most of the night. It was really hard for him.I'm just terrified.

I told his bro that if he wants to clear his head (Wh) then that's fine,but it won't happen at work bc she is there. He keeps saying he loves me so much, thinks he has a sex addiction, and isn't sure why he did what he did. His job is also his dream...so I'm asking him tomgive that up. It really is his dream. It's his hobby and I'm asking him to walk away. I know I have to. It was really hard for me to set down as an ultimatum so to speak. I just did t expect him to leave so easy...and I thought he'd be back last night.

So do I just sit and wait now? Do I contact him?

I don't ever ever think he'd put us in danger...it was weird he took the guns. His brother saud maybe he was afraid I'd do something bc I was so depressed before. Anyway his brother has the guns. I'm afraid he will go racing in a canyon and get hurt.

And his cousin who he is with wouldn't even reply and say "yes he's here" so I feel like that cousin is not in support.

His dad is also a philanderer and said "I told you not to marry a girl bc she got herself pregnant"....only positive is he hates his dad. Bc he saw this w his mom.

I haven't slept or ate. Everything hurts. Every minute of waiting is killing me. I hate this

Well he doesn't have to leave his job if she does...

I sure hope his dream job is worth so much to him, that he is willing to lose his wife, lose his kids, lose his house, lose money on alimoney, lose money on child support, lose money because of two separate households, and go through all the hassle of co-parenting with someone who dislikes you (because you will if he leaves).

Hope his job is worth it.
Also, if he had valued his job that much, he should have not had an affair there. Period.
You are worth a husband who loves you and only you.
And yes, it is possible to have a better marriage where the two of you are romantically in love. But this is only going to happen if he has no contact with her.

Don't cave in, unless you want a husband who has no respect for you and sleeps around as he wants.

Good luck, Happyheart

In the mean time, you do something for yourself. Make your hair, put on make-up. Take care of your children.

Try not to look too bad, because you want him to think of you as the better option (I know you are. And I know you shouldn't have to think about that right now, but you will feel better if your hair looks good ;-)

confusedandtorn. Hang in there. You are doing great. Don't expect a wayward to turn around immediately. It takes time for the reality to sink in. Your WH will probably try every trick in the book to get you to back down. The good thing here is that YOU have a PLAN. WH doesn't.

Continue with the exposure. Look at the support that you now have from his family after you brought this ugly A into the light of day. Did you send that letter that Mel gave you for work exposure? That is crucial to killing the A.

Your WH will not turn around until the A is dead.

Stay strong, look good, smell nice. Hugs.

Don't wait, you are the source of their anger right now. Funny thing is that waywards get mad at the truth, forgetting it is themselves who got them to that point. Blameshifting, everybody is to blame except the guilty. But eventually only they believe themselves, the rest of the world doesn't.

Now focus on you!

and again, DOCUMENT! Both OWs in my case had friends turn on them and provided me with information and details of the affairs. One had a co-worker who gave me a TON of info and details. You may get support from some people you never thought you would. I had total strangers come out to help me.

But only trust what you can verify, I was told some lies too, which I at first believed, but after researching the fact turned out to be lies.

Now go focus on yourself!

Don't contact him right now, but since you're still in Plan A not Plan B, answer when he calls.

Stay on message. "I believe in our M. I believe we can be happy again. I know we can heal from this, once OW is out of the picture. There's no room in a M for 3 people - I can't wait till there's only 2 of us again." Etc.

I thought I was in plan B? I'm writing letters I'll post in a moment.

What can I expect as reply from the work letter? I haven't heard back from the workplace....

You asked him to leave, but did you actually give him a Plan B letter, line up an intermediary, etc.? I apologize if I missed it.

If he doesn't have the letter in his hands yet, then you are still in Plan A until you give it to him. You can Plan A from separate roofs, if you don't quite have things lined up to go all the way dark yet.

Is there a format for a letter to his fb friends?

Ok. If this stage is ok then I'm ok. When do I take more steps?

Dear friend/family of OW,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that OW is having an affair with my husband, WH. We have been married for 4 years, together for 8 and have 2 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since February 2010 according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
I would ask that you use your influence with *** to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch out because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her father or family and ask them to call me at *****
_____

I left in the watch your husbands bc she is no friend of marriage to the women, but not the men. I went through the list women first in case I got stopped, then did the men.

I think I need to do the same to his FB but another letter. What about

_________________

Dear friend of ***,
It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of ***�s friends should be aware that he is having an affair with a woman at work, ***. We have been married for 4 years, together for 8 and have 2 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since February 2010 according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
I would ask that you use your relationship with WH to discuss his actions with him and encourage him to quit his job, leave his mistress, and work toward rebuilding a family. He has expressed he is confused right now.
My family is hurting and in turmoil, and I am reaching out not to be malicious but to ask for help.
I appreciate your assistance,
BW

Wow Neak...I just read your story. Whoa. I tried to link to your first message here and it wouldnt go. But wow. You where in deep. Even deeper than me.

Are you together now? How long has it been since you did plan A/B.

When do I do plan B? Im so lost and hurt and confused...Im just trying. I keep reading over and over and over.

I do guess I need to be *nice* to him. I never was very mean. I said some mean things but mostly was nice and pleading. I guess I shouldnt plead either.

Im going to write him a letter I guess...for if I see him to tonight.

You left OWs name in a post a few posts up. You need to edit it out.

Ok I think I got it. Thanks Smiling.

I made this letter out of all your advice here. I am going to print it, and give it to his brother to give to him. Is that ok/a good idea?

***,
I believe in our marriage. I believe we can be happy again. I know we can heal from this, once Rachel is out of the picture. There's no room in a marriage for 3 people - I can't wait till there's only 2 of us again.
I do however have some things I need. I am not demanding, or accusing. I am saying these are things I need to heal.

1. Complete no contact, and if contact occurs you must tell me. This includes writing the no contact letter and giving to to me to mail.

2. Honesty - total and complete. If there was anything you aren�t ready to talk about yet, just say that and we would come back to it later. This not only includes not lying to me, but means not giving me a false perception of something, as you tried to do with the phone calls. No lies, no evasion, no covering, just the full and complete truth.

3. Open-book policy - complete access to bank accounts and all emails, cell phone, computer history, GPS. I will be watching those closely.

4. Accountability for time � if we aren�t together or with someone VERY trusted, and failing that to check in with me often and let me know what your doing. GPS also. Keep in close touch. I am willing to do the same to reassure you.
5. Marriage counseling � again.
6. Personal counseling/sex addiction therapy � sex addicition therapy may be for life. Possible medication for this.

7. Resign from ***. I know you love your job. But you cannot be exposed to her. The only way you can stay in this marriage and stay at your job, is if she leaves.
8� Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible. This includes, but is not limited to:
o Trading cell phones, changing numbers.
o Block her number from your phone.
o Get caller-ID-blocking blocked so there are no blocked numbers on the phone bill.
o Block all of her email addresses from all of your email addresses. Or delete accounts. NO NEW accounts. This goes with internet and phone monitoring.
o Delete her from every possible contact list you have.
o Get rid of anything she has given you, cards, memorabilia, anything at all.
o Do not mention her in the context of the present. She has no more part in our lives. That means you don�t ask how she is doing. (The only time her name will ever come up is in dealing with something affair-related.)
o Tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind. If you are honest about this, we will simply find a way to prevent it from happening again through more precautions.

You need to have some glimmer of how badly this recent episode has hurt me, in spite of how calm I am trying to remain have been in talking to you about it. After I compiled the list of phone calls and emails, showing just how many times you had called her, it just killed me. After you did not choose to leave your job and you walked out our door so easily, I was numb. Only after hours of staring did I break down. For a little while I thought I might just throw up, but instead broke into hysterical, wordless sobbing. Your brother held me while I uncontrollobly sobbed. I have no idea how long I cried, but it was a long while. After everyone left, I cried myself to sleep. I don�t know how long that took, but I know I only slept for an hour or less.

I will not let this continue. There will be no accidents or second chances. There will be no excuses, and no reasons for any type of contact, at any time, ever. No matter how much trouble it might be to put these things into place, it is little enough to prevent the kind of agony I have suffered, and am still suffering now. I will not risk being hurt like this again. I love you enough that I am willing to try one more time, and I hope and pray you will decide to take that chance.

He just texted me to see how we where. I used the "I believe in our marriage. I believe we can be happy again. I know we can heal from this, once OW is out of the picture. There's no room in a marriage for 3 people - I can't wait till there's only 2 of us again." and he said "did you FB OWs family and friends?

WHAT DO I SAY OMG.

[I said "I believe in our marriage. I believe in you. I believe we can be happy. Thats all Im saying in response to that. I do love you. Despite your cruelty to me. I said I do and I meant it."

I have no idea what Im doing.

Just use the words I will do whatever I have to to save my marriage.......I am protecting my family........
Exposure works fairly quickly so prepare yourself he is going to be angry, blame you for why the marriage can't work now..........that you are cruel and don't care about him and his reputation. try not to laugh when he says all this stuff.....I just kept saying that none of these decisions were mine and that I wasn't going to let him hurt me or my family any longer.......
Tell him you love him and when he comes to his senses you would be willing to talk about the steps that need to be taken and to work on the marriage.......
Get ready he will be hopping mad, might move out, might call you names, expect anything from him........
But if he is that angry you know it's working they are probably fighting about it...they are quickly becoming accountable for their actions.....
Reality is hitting fantasy square in the face.........exactly what you want.......
don't reveal anything more than you will do what it takes to save your marriage and family.

let him feel it, don't help him......let him cry stomp his feet, and let them fight the more people that put pressure on them the better........
stay calm and act with integrity and look great .....
try not to laugh at the ridiculous things he will say........he is not thinking in a normal way any longer...........

Ok I will say those things if it comes up.

He doesnt seem mad. The thing is..he rarely GETS mad. He holds it in. I think he bottles it up and is afraid if he lets it out.

Is it a bad sign?

He says he wants to come over tonight and see the girls and talk with me. I said ok maybe your borther can come. he seemed annoyed "WHY would he come" I said "umm I thought you wanted to talk. If so, we need someone to watch the kids and play with them and bathe them so we can talk"..."oh ok".

Like what? hes getting insulted like Im afraid? pshh. He wish I where afraid of him.

He already is staying at his cousins so...yea.

I look ok, not great. I did my make up but Ill have to fluff it. I had to put my hair in a bun because I couldnt find my brush and broke down crying this morning over it. UGH. I can take it down and fluff it to. and change if I need to. In case I get crying on my shirt.

He says "I know you love me because you are fighting and I love you too but I need to figure all this out - can I see you tonight at home with the girls?"

I said yes, his brother can come to to that.

"I am fearless when it comes to fighting for my family"

"I will not allow adultery or an adulteress to destroy our family"

"Yes. Would you like come coffee and cake?"

I think he is getting it but you have to stay strong and firm, remember this is your chance to start right and build a great relationship with him......
Tell him you will fight for him but not with the other woman in the picture that if she stays you will be gone from his life.....
and mean it.......take the steps to show him that if you have to.....
show him you will never be a door mat for him again........he will have to prove himself to you.........he will have to earn your trust and be transparent with his whole life, he will never put himself in any kind of position ever again, and he will have to take the steps to put that into place.............
I made sure I was happy go lucky and playful at times, I would brush his arm by mistake or course, look right into his eyes when I spoke to him and showed him what he was going to be giving up...............my motto is this, I believe this with all my heart that what the OW and the affair partners underestimate in this whole situation is was the strength of the BS.........We aren't giving up or letting anyone else take our lives.......and we will do what ever it takes to keep what is ours.......
you try until it's over.......he won't be able to walk away........why would he with a woman that loves him and willing to fight for what he is and has with his family, he would be a fool and he knows it.....

Thank you Jesse<3 that really motivates me.

Pepper I like that

Don't let him sweet talk you and charm you into giving up any of your conditions to work on the M.

Trust only what YOU can verify. We have a saying here... if their lips are moving then they are lying. And waywards are very good at seeming to be sincere because they really are sincere...until they need their next fix from OW. A false recovery can be even more devastating then D-Day #1.

Stay strong.

Yea I already had false recovery....

I would recommend keeping that letter in your back pocket for now, and keep it just a little simpler up front.

Everything on that list is something you need, but the very first of all first things he needs to agree to is NC. And since this is your first PBL (that was my second, after a FR), the love needs to shine through. Those two things, your love and the need for NC are about all he will be able to grasp at first, anyway.

You make it clear that agreeing to NC is only a starting point, not the only thing you will need. At whatever point he agrees to NC is when you whip out the letter with the full, step-by-step conditions.

For now, finish your exposure, send to any remaining friends or family, and then focus on looking really sweet tonight, and treating him kindly even if he's beastly. You are Belle, and he is a furry prince with fangs.

Who do you still have left for exposure?

In answer to your question, we are still very happily together, and are about 6 1/2 years into R.

For your actual PBL, I would suggest something more like this:


The other letter is very good for what you will need it for, but it's too much to throw at him when he won't even agree to NC.

NC first, the rest of the conditions when he agrees to that.

Who would be willing to be your IM (intermediary)? A friend would be better than a family member.

I know it's a lot to process all at once. Please update on your exposure status when you can.

Sorry confusedandtorn. I re-read your initial post and see where I missed/forgot that. If you click on "profile" in "my stuff" you can add the details of your ages, kids, D-day dates, etc in your signature.

It is always helpful to posters to see a quick recap of your details in your sig line.

My best.

I've exposed to everyone I can think of...friends family work....Facebook his and hers....only not my mom and dad. But my mom is unstable. I very seriously fear my mother will physically hurt him and go to jail. And my family agrees.

Ok. I'm learning still. Dday is? So I have 2 dday?

D day is when you found out something is going on.

A 2nd D day would be if you thought it was over and found out you were really in a FR.

Failed recovery?

Did I do this right

False recovery.

Arg. She posted on her fb for all her friends to ignore the crazy message that someone is trying to ruin her life for no reason at all.

That is fine. Shows she is bothered by it. You hold the course. You are doing fine.

Did you rewrite a simpler Plan B letter?

Ugh of course ppl are supporting her! Ugh!

He wants to
Talk and I dunno if I need someone there or not. Im not afraid for my safety so why

I have not written it yet I got busy at work. I won't have time before I try and clean up and get home before he gets there.

Should I try not to cry? No affection? Or be nice and affectionate?

He texted me he missed me and I replied w loving him /our marriage and I'm ready to talk when his heads on straight..and he said "we talk tonight"

Besides why would telling the truth ruin her life lol. Duh.

Now she can never be w him without looking a fool

Now you get it. This is why it is important.

You did good. Some people will believe the truth, and others won't. Not your problem. You shined the light in on something dark and evil, thus injecting a dose of reality into the fog-bound fantasy.

If your letter isn't ready, and you don't have time to get it ready before he gets there, wait and go into Plan B tomorrow. It's better to do it a day later and do it right.

On the other hand, if you get it done after all, you can reach your place of peace sooner.

When you talk to him tonight, listen more than talk. Ask him questions that need more than a yes or no answer. Don't let yourself be drawn into any arguments. Remember your messages, and repeat them as needed.

No matter how he prods you, avoid all lovebusters. It's better to sit in silence for a long time than to say something that will give him any lame excuses to be a stinker.

Here is a link to help you prepare for pushing the Plan B button.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

Like Neak said, it is more important to wait a day (or two) and get it "right." Do you have an IM (intermediary) lined up and does that person understand their role?

When do I have to do plan B?

He says he needs a few days to figure out what to do about work. He has an appt w a therapist tomorrow. He says he loves me and our marriage but he doesn't know why he did what he did and he needs to figure it out. He also really doesn't want to give up his job. I told him then make her leave,.. Or explain to your boss and ask for a transfer, and transfer back when she's gone. Or ask her to leave. He said then I have to talk to her...I saud ok by email I can see. Then he said well I can't be responsible for that. Then he says what about my mom...he wishes she weren't around.

Then I told him look, I love you. I love my marriage. I touched his hand and said I'm willing to go 30 steps backward for this. I will do my best to meet your needs of you meet mine. He smiled like he was there again and hugged my face and said he doesn't deserve me and I'm crazy.

He went to pick up the kids and then come back.

I know I have to stand my ground. I know.

If he puts in for a transfer or takes action-do I wait for it to go through or what?

Don't waste your time trying to contact the OW yourself and see if she will leave. You're setting yourself up for a lot of trouble if you do.

This is WH's problem to solve if he wants to keep you, and maybe his boss will play a role, too, now that he knows.

Sounds like the evening went GREAT. Even if he doesn't come around right away, know that tonight had an impact on him.

As far as putting off Plan B or not, you've been living in this thing for a YEAR AND A HALF, plus everything else you went through 5 years ago. Besides, Plan B is on your timeline, not his.

If he got his stuff together 2 hours into Plan B, great, you can proceed from there. If it takes him 2 weeks to arrange everything, or if he limps along for several months, it won't matter to you. You'll be safe, and healing.

If you wait for him, you'll still be here another year from now, with him "unable" to make other arrangements for his job. When he's serious, you'll know.

5 years?

Didn't you allow your husband to stay which he was working w OW? Or did I read wrong

Oh and I wouldn't contact her. Besides she's super pissed lol

For some odd reason.

He just bought time to figure out how to keep both of you. Not good. Have you exposed this at his job yet?
He can't do this. If he is her superior she could sue for sexual harassment. He needs to let his employer deal with this. And her employer can't make her leave, either. This affair can result in a sexual harassment lawsuit unless her employer has provable grounds for dismissal that are work related. And even then, she can still file. Although I have a feeling your WH wouldn't do it even if he could, because of this:
These are not the words of a man who is ending an affair.

He's not back in the house, is he?

I'm not sure this is working. I'm not sure I am ready for plan b. Ive heard nothing from his employer...can they just ignore the whole thing?

He came to talk tonight. We talked. He put the girls to bed. We talked. He left. I saw him stand at his car for a minute.

If his work won't fire them? What was the point if that letter being sent? No one has told him about it at work...or contacted me back...

Who got the letter? You sent it yesterday? How did you send it? I would send it registered mail if your WH doesn't say anything by the end of the week.

He wants to come tomorrow to put the kids to bed. His mom told him he can't make me take care of the kids alone.

I sent it email to hr, and both their bosses like you guys said

If one of them doesn't leave that job you need to go to Plan B and file for divorce to protect yourself and your children. That may wake him up, or not. Either way, you're protected.

The point of the letter was to bring pressure to bear on the adulterers. The employer of co-workers is typically the best exposure target for this.

confused, their employer will probably NOT contact you. That would be considered breaching the privacy of their employees. You're not looking for them to contact you - you're looking for your WH to let you know that his employer is questioning him about the affair.

Your WH may call you tomorrow, absolutely flipping out about your letter. He may tell you that he was planning to end the affair "but that's all off now!" You may hear all kinds of angry babble come out of his mouth. Ignore that. That is the drunken rant of a wayward who was just exposed.

Stay calm. Tell him "I will do whatever it takes to save my marriage."

Look for his outrage. That's how you'll know they're acting on your letter.

How long do I wait for one of them to leave?

Also he's asked me to attend marriage counseling....

Hi confused, it looks like you have done alot of work since yesterday! Good girl!

I would plan on going into Plan B tomorrow. The goal was to get him out and you have done that. You have given him ample opportunity to leave that job and he is not willing. He is likely waiting around to see if you will crumble and remove your condition.

So, I would get your locks changed and drop off the plan B letter to him tomorrow. Do you have an intermediary lined up? I would also write up a visitation schedule for the children, giving him maybe an afternoon every weekend and Wednesday nights. How could you manage kid exchanges without seeing him? Maybe dropping them off at his parents?

I would also put a line in your plan B letter that you expect him to continue to pay the bills.

He needs to FIRST meet your conditions and he has not agreed to do that. There is nothing to counsel about until he ends his affair. And he is apparently not willing to do that.

Wait to see what your WH says. One of them may not leave. Here's what could happen:
1. Nothing
2. Employer demotes/disciplines them, keeps both of them on the job at the same location.
3. One or both of them are transferred.
4. One or both of them are fired.

You have no way of knowing what will happen right now. Be ready to go to Plan B. It's really up to what your WH does.

No, he doesn't need 2 days. What this means is that he doesn't believe you are serious and is trying to buy some time. I would show him you are very serious and have that Plan B letter delivered to him tomorrow. Shut the door. I suspect that is what it will take to yank him off that fence because he is not going to easily give up having 2 women meeting his needs.

I just barely learned of this dark
Plan b today. I thought I was in plan b now. I don't think I can do all this by tomorrow. I can try but I'm not sure.

He ended the affair just hadn't left work yet. I'm not trying to
Piss you off again...this is just so much to take in and its so fast my head is spinning.

Refuse this. He's buying time, hoping you'll think he's working on the marriage. Marriage counselling with most therapists is a waste of your time and money and will accomplish nothing for you.

There are tools on this site for recovering your marriage. They are free and are invaluable. Keep that in mind for the future. For now you need to get this affair killed.

Well done. You're doing really well so far! Confused, I was very worried about you at first because I was concerned that you might not have the backbone to accomplish the hard work that would be required of you to save your family. Now I think I thought too harshly of you.

I love it when a poster proves me wrong about that.

c&t, you can do this!! I know you are strong and brave and have what it takes to do this. When you focus yourself, you get it done.

He has not ended the affair. As long as he sees her at work every day the affair is still on. What he thinks he can do is keep you both on the plantation and that is what he is trying to do now.

But you can't let up now. This was the whole point of kicking him out. Don't go through the last 2 days of hell for nothing. It is real important that you don't let up right now. You have to keep the pressure up! You have them on the ropes and need to keep up until you have this affair either killed or have yourself out of the line of the fire.

Right now your husband does not believe you are serious. He is trying to buy time by putting you off and asking for nonsense like "counseling." He does not believe you are serious!

It is critical you stay focused and show him you are SERIOUS. Otherwise you are not going to save this marriage. He will continue to drag his feet and keep you emotionally traumatized. Step away from that. Raise the BAR and make him meet your standards to stay in this marriage.

All you need to do to go into Plan B is give him that letter and shut down contact. Have all information passed through an intermediary.

confused, don't let up now. The reason your head is spinning is because you are still at his mercy. You need to take back control of your life and tell HIM how its going to be. He quits the job and committs to recovery or he doesn't get to speak to or see you.

Show him a taste of what it means to be divorced. Show him you are serious by shutting that door and telling him in no uncertain terms: THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE AND YOU WILL NOT CONTACT ME UNTIL YOU STOP IT.

Take back control of your life. Stop being at the mercy of a selfish, entitled adulterer.

Sweetie, you're not pissing us off. We're here and ready to help you. You're doing great!

Understand this: the affair IS NOT OVER. It will NOT be over until they are apart.
Read this to learn more about the next step to getting your husband back:How to Plan B Correctly

I can't even think of an intermediary. All my friends are to close...I'm
So sick over this.

Plus that says 48 hours to plan-how can I do this all tomorrow?!

you betcha! Get a good nights sleep and try and think of an intermediary who would be neutral and would agree to only pass on pertinent information.

Also be thinking about who can change your locks for you.

Ok I'll think. I'm sick. Ugh

You can't. And that's okay. Work on Plan B tomorrow. For tonight you need to get some rest and digest what Plan B entails. Get comfortable with the concept. Read it again. A few times. It will make more sense to you when you've read it over. This will be a huge help for you.

Go to bed and get some rest. This is mentally exhausting.

You, confused, are doing GREAT! Your children don't even know what a hero their mother is, to be going through this for your family!

Please get some rest. I know sleep doesn't come easy right now, but you need to be rested to be at your affair-fighting best.

You are also a very strong, brave mother who is standing up for her marriage and her childrens family against an affair.

Thank you guys. So much

It's midnight and he just called "I'm outside can I come in"...swept me up in hugs kisses and days he's so sorry it just clicked he chooses marriage. My stomach is rolling and I'm like reeling. I muster ip
How much I love him...I'm so glad...but he knows what I need so ge can stay. He emailed work...he *says* he will be finalizing in the morning...but thesis so hard. I said I love him so much and I'm sorry I just have to protect myself and once it's final and it's just me and him he can come back home. I didn't know I had this in me. I hope this is the right thing . I'm reeeeeling.

Maybe I can sleep now

Yes you are.

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Luke 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


He cannot be both dedicated and loving is his marriage, and loving his job and girlfreind. at the same time. He is living in the fantasy of this, and you are doing what is needed to bring him out of it.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Trust in this, you are clearing out the fog of his desire to give into his temptation, and saving him from a life of confusion, and the broken hearts of his children, and his family. This is something he must respond to, and in humility admit that he has failed, and prove to you that he has changed.

It will take time to rebuild, as he admits that he was human, and made wrong decsions also, that hurt the ones he swore to love and protect. It was a selfish decsion, and you are helping him, even if he doesn't see it yet.

These steps to bring this all out into the light, are the most loving thing you can do for him, at this time. The job, his reputation, can all be rebuilt, but they pale in the importance of his marrige vows, and his quality of life, for the ones that are really important.

Go through with all the exposure, and know that you will succeed, in squashing the head of the serpent that has come into his life, and planted the seeds of deception and lies in his mind. It is the most loving thing that you can do, and sometimes, it has to be done in a marriage.

You can trust the people who are guiding you, they really care for your marriage, and your life.

You have been very brave, and done an explosive exposure. You have done an excellent job.

It is great that he wants to choose marriage. Remember though, this is just the beginning. He is sticking his head out of the fog now, but it will take time to come out of it for real.

The two of you will have some rebuilding to do. And because affairs are like addictions, he will start to miss the OW once the initial stress has passed a bit. (It is sick, but that is the reality.) So beware, that it will be up and down and up again after this, untill he is through withdrawal and the two of you can be truly one again.

I'm praying for you that he comes around and finishes his business at work, so you can rebuild and become happier even, than before.

You will get great guidance here, I'm sure from the people that have lived what you went through.

God bless you and help you through this.

Happyheart

Yes this is true, so be aware of it, and insist he quit ASAP or that the company fires her, or one of them gets transfered. He will not have the strength to avoid her or the triggers, no matter what he says at home. He has been living a double life for to long.

Ill keep you Posted today. I'm still wary he will go into work and change his mind. Im
Going to work on putting together plan b just in case. Because he has been so wushu washy. It took everything I had to turn him away last night, although I did so with kindness and love.

If he does follow through-what's my next step?

You did great !! Don't go down the same path where the A picked up again. You have already found out that WH is not strong enough to resist that OW. He must leave that job.

Here are your conditions to work on the M

1. He leaves that job.
2. NC in any way shape or form with OW for LIFE.
3. NCL handwritten by him where he addresses his disrespect and hurt to you and his family therefore NC for life. YOU mail the letter.
4. complete transparency into his life
5. commitment to MB recovery plan.

If he does not agree to all of the above, you push the plan B button as soon as you have everything in place.

Stay strong. Hugs.

Ok. Where is the recovery plan?

I have to give back my car today..because it's linked to his job.

Well that is a good reason to switch to bike!

Recovery:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5061_qa.html

First, he has to completely commit to extraordinary precautions to protect you from his affair. That means he NEVER sees or speaks to that ho again other than to send her a no contact letter that is written by him, approved by you and mailed together. [will post letter in the next post]

1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - EXCHANGE CELL PHONES, CANCEL EMAIL ACCOUNT, CANCEL FACEBOOK

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about the affair<s>

5. commit to the Marriage Builders program

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

AWESOME JOB!!!!!!!! See? You can think on the fly! This was terrific - expressing love, and yet upholding boundaries. Perfecto!

I'm glad you're still putting your Plan B together, in case you have to use it. It sounds like he's leaving his job, and that's a good first step. If he also commits to NC, even better. As long as he does those things, and is progressing, you can hold off on Plan B.

But at any point that he balks, or if you find that contact has resumed, then you go dark very quickly. You'll be ready, so that part will be easy.

You are doing so good! Hope you got a good night's sleep.

Lol to bike. I can't bike to work! Lol

Whatever price you end up paying for your new mode of transportation, it pales in comparison to your family and your sanity.

Think outside the box in coming up with a solution. Ok, so bike won't work, probably not glider, either, or stilts, but there must be some affordable substitute.

confused, if he tries to drag this out with "I will try and find another job and then leave this job" blah, blah, blah, then you should go into Plan B. Let him know that won't work. You shouldn't be with him until ALL contact ends.

If he says that, just tell him that won't work and then come back here and we will help you finalize your plans for Plan B.

Have you been thinking about the locks? Do you own your home? If so, you can buy locks at Home Depot and get your dad or someone to change them. You don't EVEN want him coming in your house or contacting you in any way if you go into Plan B. And I suspect he will try to contact you because HE WILL NOT LIKE LOSING CONTROL OF YOU.

LINK to False Recovery discussion

You are getting GREAT advice & guidance.

Part of MB is self care.

This is exhausting.
Please, treat yourself well.

confused, it is as common as dirt for waywards to promise whatever they think their spouse wants to hear in order to buy time. Don't be surprised if he comes home and tells you that his boss begged him to stay until they find a replacement. Or that he'll lose his pension, etc, if he doesn't put in a two-week notice. Or whatever.

STAY THE COURSE. Thank him for his information and then show him to the door. Tell him you'll talk further after he's gone from the job.

You can't waffle on this requirement. This is a biggie. Everything that happens next depends on this.

Ok, I need to read all of those links and get informed. I still need to work on my plan B today just in case. I have spent most of the morning with HR at my work, trying to get benefit info because we will lose his coverage.

HOWEVER - he just called. He met with his boss and his boss's boss. They gave him options. They offered to let him work from home while he transitions out of the job, and allow him an intermidiary for any communication between them (its minimal, but she is in shipping and he needs to ship things). They said he can go through her boss (who BTW doesnt like her). The also offered to transfer him to their corporate office, about 50 miles away, and get him an office there. He'd still work for this branch, but out of that office. And third, they offered him to work after hours - he comes when she leaves. The third is a no. No way. They also said if he takes option 2, where he works out of the other office, that maybe eventually he transitions to a position for that branch. I feel comfortable with these options...moreso the one where he works in torrance. He could commute with his dad (who albeit is not the best guy, but he'd be accounted for at least).

What do you think? I told him he can't email her and he said "no, no contact, none. And I need to write that letter you said" (the NC letter). And the work agrees, no contact due to sexual harassment issues.

He agreed to GPS etc. He has personal therapy tonight for his issues on his own.

I need to prepare a list of requirements based off all this here now...

WOW you are a wonderful success story!

I would ONLY agree to this on a very temporary basis while he looks for another job. What will happen is that as long as they work for the same company their paths will continually CROSS in the coming years and you will be back here dealing with a resumed affair again soon enough. Every time he sees her name on an email or they attend a meeting he will be triggered. And he will obviously have to visit her location at times. Then you will be at step one again.

See, they will be also be able to email at work and call each other there.

I would agree and give him TWO MONTHS to find another job. This can only be temporary. You had better go for the GOLD right now while you have a chance, dear. Don't settle for a deal that is going to set you for a repeat affair.


Good.


Well, him knowing about the GPS sort of ruins that resource. I wouldnt' encourage therapy because that could cause problems.


Good girl!! Stand FIRM and don't settle for less.

How could therapy cause problems? He thinks he needs help with his "sex addiction"

Oh, and there would not be meetings or anything where they are together. Because he would be at the other office, he would participate in their benefit meetings etc.

She is also not in a position where she would attend any meetings. They work in entirely different departments in a large corporation. She is clerical, paper pusher.

Other people said their spouses "agreed" to GPS. How can I do it without him knowing?

Anyway, he is waiting on word from HR that they can even do this right now. Your probably right, I'll give him some time to leave.

If he transfers to the other building 50 miles away entirely, and works for that branch, there would be no possibility of interaction...they are basically separate companies. I obviouslt can't say WHERE but they are.

DO I give him a letter of requirements or what?

Here is what I have (from you guys)

1. Leave job
2. No Contact in any way shape or form with OW for LIFE.
3. No Contact Letter handwritten where you addresses your disrespect and hurt to you and his family therefore no contact for life. I will mail the letter.
4. complete transparency into your life
5. commitment to MB recovery plan.
6. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle (**DOES THIS MEAN NO GIRLS NIGHTS O.o�can he still go out if he is with family, ie his cousins, or my friends husbands? We have 2 couples we are clsoe with, usually the girls go out to dinner, and the guys go out to dinner sometimes)
7. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - EXCHANGE CELL PHONES, CANCEL EMAIL ACCOUNT, CANCEL FACEBOOK
8. no opposite sex friendships
9. complete honesty about the affair<s>
10. commit to the Marriage Builders program

**I am going to put an internet tracker on his laptop and if I can his phone (since he was emailing on his phone) as well as GPS on his car and phone � not sure how but I will figure this out

Your spouse should not be told about a GPS because he can easily work around it. My suggestion would be to slip spyware on his phone that has a built in GPS. And don't tell him about it! What kind of phone does he have?


What does this mean? Does he look at porn? If he does, then part of the agreement is that he STOPS ALL porn NOW. He doesn't need "therapy" to do that. He just needs to STOP it and throw away any and all porn and completely eliminate any possible way to access porn anymore.

confused, does he need to leave the job? If there is NO CHANCE of contact at work then this should not be an issue.

Love your list!!! From now on, start planning COUPLES nights. Don't go out without each other again. Your time together is too important to squander on friends and family! And going out without your spouse is an affair risk.

He doesn't have a sex addiction. He has poor boundaries around women. He doesn't need a therapist to correct that.

Therapy is typically a bad idea because therapists waste time (and YOUR money) exploring childhood issues, delving into youthful disappointments, etc, that have nothing to do with infidelity. He shouldn't waste time on these things as a means to recover your marriage or to 'fix' himself.

Worse, a particularly bad theory that therapists have is that the client should "explore their options" or "seek their happiness" and other tripe like that. It often leads to the client separating from their spouse so he can "find himself." And then the marriage breaks down.

Sex addiction? All guys are addicted to sex

It's self control and discilpline he needs

"Why stare at a glass of water when your thirsty?"

He needs to drink that at home, and control his thoughts

UA time and practicing filling the emotional needs, will bring about the intimacy you will need, to make sex something he will only want from you , as he will have to work for it also

Thanks everyone for the advice.

If he transfers to the other facility, then no there is no way of contact. The employer wont allow it at this point, of course this is what WH is saying. However, they must want to keep him really bad to offer this - he didn't ask for this, he went in told them the truth and said he had to quit because of it.

I have other friends that are yelling at me saying I am compromising by allowing this transfer etc, and what will stop him in a bar with another woman and whatever.

It looks like what we are looking at now is he either works from home until December, or he works for this facility, but out of the other facility until December. Still with no contact with her.

In that meantime, he can apply for a job at the other facility, and his boss will give him a reference, or he can find another job.

These other friends are telling me why am I subjecting myself to a life of monitoring him and constant worry and all this stuff for nothing. *sigh*

confused, when your friends start second-guessing you and advising you, ask them how many marriages they have saved with their advice.

I have no trouble with his transfer to another place 50 miles away if no contact is true. (Your work isn't done with putting EPs in place, remember. But the job is the first concern.)

If he hasn't gotten it yet, your WH should be getting a letter of reprimand from his employer. Ask to see it. It should spell out the terms of the reprimand, including his transfer and the no contact rule.

His employer has just been served notice that they have a potential lawsuit because of the actions of your WH. They will be documenting their response to this.

If they neglect to give your WH a copy he needs to ask for one.

Confused, how will you verify what that what he is telling you is the truth about his job?

And yes, you will be checking on him for life. But that just means you won't be worrying because if he is completely transparent and you have good spy resources you will know what he is doing.

How do your friends feel you are compromising by allowing him to transfer? I want to understand their perspective. Do they see something I am not seeing? Can they come here and tell me?

Amen!!

It sounds to me that they want her to dump him completely.

I get that, but I don't understand why they are against this solution. Is it because they just want her to dump him regardless? I don't know.

That is what I am getting...that they just want her to get rid of him. Because they are sure he will cheat again with the next 'temptation' in a bar or something. I might be making too many assumptions about her what her friends are thinking....

I would say I imagine their intentions are good, but most good intentions do not save marriages. They do not understand the MB way of life for married people to live.

I want to know exactly why they don't like the offered solution to the job situation.

I don't know how I can verify what he is telling me...he checks his email at home..I can ask for the password? I can put that spywhere tracking...especially if he is working from home because it will be on our computer.

What theyve basically said is I have spent the last year being treated like sh*t. I have been sick, my stomach is in constant upset, I've gotten an ulcer. Ive gained weight (which Ive now lost 5 pounds this week), and I was so depressed I could barely move. They say he wont change. Nothing will make him change and there will always be another girl to f*@k him no matter what. They say he cant change and I am just subjecting myself to something worse next time, STD's, an extramarital pregnancy, etc.

Most everyone seems to want me to dump him completely (friends). My two very best friends, they will support me no matter what. They sent him messages of support, saying they dont condone him but if he wants to talk they can. One of their husbands took him out last night. My Very closest friend at first said nothing I would do would work. And when I showed her what I was doing with exposure and etc she said maybe if he gets so much positive support this can turn (changing her mind is tough!).

They think I will be living a terrible life of constant worry and checking and tracking.

They are saying that now I am the one compromising AGAIN with allowing this job situation etc. I kind of saw it as the best of both - he is out contact with her, and we dont lose everything so fast. I have time to save to buy another car. If they keep him until december, I can enroll in benefits at my work as of January 1. Right now, if he quits, we lose any insurance until January 1. And if his work is supportive?

I can c&p some of the messages they give me if that would help. I said I feel like they think I am an idiot and whatever and one of them jumped all over me for resenting her help. I didnt say that...I said I FEEEL ...I FEEL that they think I am an idiot.

Ok, confused, I get it now. I think the job situation is fine and you should go for it.

A big part of the reason your husband has been like this is because you have enabled it. You need to show your friends your list of conditions and assure them that your husband either makes a radical change or he is gone. All of these changes have to be verifiable because promises are worthless.

Have you given him your conditions yet? What is the plan for that?

Also, BEFORE he comes home, provided this all works out, I would slap a key logger on that computer that you can check from work. A good one is eblaster because it will send reports to a web based email account.

He needs to understand that if he looks at porn or contacts any woman that he is done. You will KNOW. Just tell him you have ways to know and that is none of his business.

I second EBlaster as a great choice. It works REALLY well from any location.

Friends and families' first reactions are often to "dump the bum" because they feel that is the quickest way to get rid of YOUR pain. They don't want to see you hurting. And they are likely angry with him.

We see waywards change all the time because they follow the plans to recreate their marriages. Your marriage can be better than ever - as long as he gets on board and is willing to change. You will be changing too.

I wouldn't pay much attention from the friends

They are probably mad that they are not the ones controlling this situation

They might want revenge, and have been watching this going on, and are hopping mad about it

This won't help in reconciliation, and they are to close to this, to see how to help you out of the woods

Plus, I doubt they know how to save and restore marriges

Crap. He gets home before I do (and I didnt change the locks bc I didnt do plan B yet)....where do I get a key logger (eblaster) on there? ITs his laptop. I can just ask him if I can use it, because my desktop is broken (TRUE and he knows it).

How can I do this on his phone? Right now he has a samsung fascinate. Id be willing to invest in a new phone for him (his is breaking anyway) i phone or something IF it meant i could track emails etc.

Melody - my plan was to give him the letter tonight at home. He already knows I have conditions and said he will meet any of them and he also asked me for the no contact letter format or what it should be. He seems willing...I am trying not to be hopeful etc...but you know. its hard.

Also need to work on intermediary still. Im having a hard time with that.

Of course you are hopeful, but from what you are writing you are also intelligent and careful.

I think if you want to look deeper into the 'spy' thing you can get the most help in the thread 'operation investigate' at this forum. As far as I know, they mostly recommend flexispy on a cell phone and e-blaster on a computer.
And a VAR (voice activated recorder) to hide in his car.

I hope everything goes well for you this evening. So that you may look back at it as a turning point for you in the foreseeable future.

God bless, Happyheart

Thank you. I posted today on my face book that I am really thankful for all the support I am getting and I feel very loved and appreciate it. That goes here to.

I will check that stuff out and google it, see how I can buy it.

WH doesnt do any bills or money...he doesnt even know passwords, so he cant see what I buy. Plus when first dday happened, I paid off my cc and not his (just min pmts)...so I have plenty of room on my private cards.

And im still going to sock away $ for a while.

confused, before you do anything, set up a new email account. Use this account for all of your spying purchases.

When you buy eblaster or other spying tools online, they will send a confirmation of the order. You probably know that, but you should also be aware that the reports will be sent via email on eblaster. You don't want him to ever see that on your email. ALSO (this caught me by surprise because I never thought about it) the companies sending you the tools may send occasional emails to remind you about updates, etc. You don't want him seeing any of that.

It's not acceptable to assume he will never see it because he doesn't know your current email password or account. After you reconcile, the two of you are going to make sure that you've both given each other access to all of your accounts (total transparency goes both ways). So you can give him your 'regular' email password without worrying that he will ever see any spying info.

Never disclose your 'spying' email address or any of your spying tools. That is not part of being transparent.

ok, confused, have you presented him your list of conditions? Present him the list of conditions and he either agrees or not agrees.

If he doesn't agree, then you ask him to leave.

THEN you come back here and we will help you work on your plans for Plan B.

Thanks Melody.

I have not presented the list - I am on PST so it is still 230 in the afternoon But it's printed. I added this

11. Post Nuptial agreement
12. Confession & apology to children
13. Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
14. IC, MC, & Family C
15. Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose

what are the other 10?

I have some questions. Over the course of the last 2 years, my husband has perpetually bothered me for sex. he will ask and ask and keep asking until I give in. It got better after the affair because I stood my ground. Now, by no means do I deprive him. At least 2 times a week we do it voluntarily. But the man constantly bombards me with his penis, pressing it into me, groping me, etc. This is part of the reason he feels he has an additicion, he feels that his thoughts and feelings of sex overrun his mind and its all he can think about. He told his brother that even when I was crying on his shoulder, he was getting aroused.

Last weekend, a few days before FR, we where home sick. We where in the kitchen and he began pressing against me, he hoisted me up onto the counter and started making out w me and pushing on me,. He tried to pull down my pants, I said no honey I dont feel good...he kept telling me to bad. Not in a way where hes like "to bad I am going to restrain you' but almost in a way HE thinks is playful. I kept saying no and he picked me up and took me to the couch. He took off my pants and I kept saying babe, common! Im sick. And he put it inside of me. I got angry and pushed back a little and rolled my eyes. he stopped and said sorry. I put on my pants and he said sorry. Do I think this is ok? NO. Am I sure its rape? No not really.

My friend cares for me very much and has been looking at this site, the articles and agrees the advice is good and it probably works in "normal" cases. She asked me "what advice do they give out in response to spousal rape" and "are there people on that site who have had a problem like that and how did they deal with it?" "do they still encourage you to rebuild in an abusive relationship?".

I know this has been emotional abuse and maybe even sexual battering. I am not sure I am comfortable with "rape". I am not fearful that he would hit me or hurt me. I was in a physically abusive relationship before and I walked away. With 3 cracked ribs, but I was a kid. (17). I know physical abuse. However, I do have a hard time admitting something horrible has happened to me. I was molested several years ago by a 40 year old man when I was 17. My WH (who was not my boyfriend yet) was in the room but passed out drunk on the other side. I woke up being touched below by this man. I froze but eventually got up, and moved to the other side of the room. I never have considered that "rape" althoguh my therapist tells me otherwise. So maybe I am skewed. anyway. I wanted to put that info out there.

MFJ - sorry I thought I posted 1-10 earlier.

1. Leave job
2. No Contact in any way shape or form with other woman for LIFE.
3. No Contact Letter handwritten where you addresses your disrespect and hurt to you and his family therefore no contact for life. I will mail the letter.
4. complete transparency into your life
5. commitment to MB recovery plan.
6. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle
7. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - EXCHANGE CELL PHONES, CANCEL EMAIL ACCOUNT, CANCEL FACEBOOK
8. no opposite sex friendships
9. complete honesty about the affair
10. commit to the Marriage Builders program
11. Post Nuptial agreement
12. Confession & apology to children
13. Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
14. IC, MC, & Family C
15. Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose

when you say your divorce came to a screeching halt can you elaborate? Just wonderin.

Oh and he doesnt look at porn that I know of, although our marriage counselor told us to look at it together (as did my OBGYN when I went wondering why I couldnt get aroused). But he does look at photos of me naked. Of course, now I know he was also looking at ones of her *sigh* that I saw...which sickeningly where very similar to the ones he had of me. He never asked for pics before he was with her...and it makes me nauseous to send him of me, because even though he likes it and it makes him feel good...ti reminds me of her. *sigh* any thoughts?

confusedandtorn. This jumped out at me. Your WH CANNOT talk about personal issues with members of the opposite sex including your best girlfriends. That would be poor boundaries and how he got himself into trouble to begin with.

There are many BS here where the OW was the betrayed spouse's friend... including me.

The reason your H is so overcharged and aggressive is because he watches porn, which needs to stop. And he should never do this again. Tell him he has to keep his hands off you unless you want it. He stupidly is causing a sexual aversion by doing this. And you shouldn't allow him to do it. As far as "abuse," there is nothing he has done that is as abusive as his affair.

Porn does not turn on most women so that is stupid advice. Women need 2 things to feel sexual desire, an emotional attachment and the prospect of enjoyment. One of the main reasons you don't feel aroused is because your H paws you. That is a turn off to most women. If your H would learn to meet your needs in a way that made you feel emotionally attached him, you would feel attached to him.

Ok. So his boss and his boss's boss talked to HR. They told him to take a few days of vacation and think it over. They are supportive and understand his choice. They want him to come back after talking to me and let them know what the "stipulations" are. Seems to me they are very supportive. They said he can take as long as until next Friday.

I said the following stipulations:
1. He cannot work in that building. He must work in an alternate location.
2. No contact of any kind. No phone, email, letters, interoffice correspondence (he said this to them to, they said that's fine).
3. I want something informing me that they are aware of the situation in it's entirey. Whether this be a letter, email, a meeting with HR. Whatever.

Seem ok?

Also - do I let him home? I'm off all day tomorrow also...soooo I will be there if he is there.

How do I behave? Like normal? Make dinner, sit on the couch together, hug?

I have my list of conditions. I gave it to him. He read it at my desk at work.

He is willing to send the letter but thinks its backward that I say no contact and then make him write a letter. But he's doing it so yea.

I would go with him to meet with the HR Director and discuss this together. You can't go by his word alone.



I would have him write the letter and do all the things on your list BEFORE you allow him to come home, making sure he understands it is not negotiable. You are not asking him if he wants to do those things, you are telling him this is the only way he gets to be with you.

How about giving him another night away from you and tell him to come over tomorrow with his letter and you will review it. He can hand over his cell phone and all of his passwords to emails, etc at that time, AND delete facebook.

That will give you time tonight to install eblaster on his computer. Are you able to afford that? It is about $100 and you can download and install it tonight.

p.s. I am VERY PROUD OF YOU!!!

LOOK HOW FAR YOU HAVE COME IN TWO SHORT DAYS!!

Ok well I have to see him to get his computer. I just told him this-he told me I already have both emails (his normal
One and I have his affair one-umm same password real smart). Both are programmed to come to my iPad :-p since weds.

He asked if he brings the letter home can he please come. I tOld him I'll think-I would like to go for a run.

I told him I need to borrow his laptop to pay bills bc my desktop is not Internet working. I can afford 100 but it looks like instant download is 198?

These are acts from men who are ignorant of romance, and afraid of thier own sexuality. Insecure in the sex department. Probably read to many playboy and hustler fantasys.

Look, sex sells, and there are girls all over the internet advertising that they want them sexually. Its a con game and all they want is power and control. Society and advertising plays on the simple drives of men and women, and makes them think that they can have it all, and we are bombarded with that crap every day.

Woman want to be attractive to all men, and men want to be attractive to all women, and those that aren't are the losers.

Then we have the storys from other men, the fantasys of one night stands, the lies they tell about how "hot" this one is and what they did together, and of course, lets not forget, the fact that mature men ussually think about sex every three minutes, when thier mind is not occupied by something else.

With the way it is capitalised on, it is no surprise that men are aroused so often, and for the wrong(?) reasons.

This is where romantic love comes in, and the boundaries that are nessesary, in a loving relationship. When your husband sees you as special, and one of a kind,(as he gets to know you again through UA time), he will drop the fantasys of forcing himself on you. (Although when YOU FEEL special, you might enjoy his aggressiveness and ownership of your body)

That won't happen as long as he is in an affair, you need to rebuild romantic love, and he has a lot of weight to lift first.

And it will take time, and investment, from him. He will have to be tottally repentant, start treating you as a woman, and with respect for your feelings, which are not like his. He is wired different than you, and you him, in his brain, and in his thoughts. He needs to change them.

Breaking up the affair is just the beginning of your journey into what a marriage is supposed to be. Its about mutual care for each other, and knowing each other, like nobody else on earth.

You have just started on that journey, and acted well also, but there is more work to do yet, and DR H would be the best investment you could make, if you could afford it. I encourage you to look into counselling with him, he is the fastest road to recovery. Of course that goes along with this site, and the support here that will not desert you.

Obviously the 40 yr old man was guilty of "date rape" at the least, and your H needs to cool his jets, because sex doesn't mean intimacy, but intimacy can and does result in sex most of the time. What you need to do is build that again, and he IS capable, if he is willing.

If he is like many men who are in the world, and come here to save thier marriages, he will have to learn to control his thoughts, and think with the right head, and it is possible with the right mindset.

You are a gift to him, not someone he can use at his leisure, and he needs to KNOW this, and you do too. Make him prove it to you again, and let it become the deep relationship it was supposed to be in the first place

But first lets break up the affair fantasy, follow Mels advice.

Thank you guys.

I would like to know how I'm supposed to behave once he meets my terns. I know no love busters cruelty etc. But do I behave in a normal loving manner? Kisses? Hugs? Time together? Tv? Sex(on my terms)? Our kids are on a field trip tomorrow from 9-9 at least. What do we do? He's on vacation fro
Work per them to draw up our stipulations and I'm off. Do we clean together? Go to lunch together? What should I not do or do do?

I feel I need the phone spyware but it looks to be $349 o.O

Thank you guys.

No, it's $99. It is right here: http://www.spectorsoft.com/products/eBlaster_Windows/index.asp

I would go meet with his HR Director together tomorrow and discuss how this is going to work. And then once he has met, or agrees to meet all your conditions, you can let him come home. But, you need to get his phone, cf!! Exchange phones so she can't get through.

Phone spyware is much cheaper than that. there is an eblaster for phones that is $65 and a cheaper version of flexispy is $149. Eblaster has a GPS on it.

We need to start a new thread: "Craziest things to come out of an idiot therapist's mouth." Your OB guy is equally at fault in the idiot department.

He needs to DELETE the affair email account and his facebook account. Don't fall for the "i will block the OW" because she can still contact him and he can still see her. And he can unblock her in 2 seconds flat. Just delete it.

They belong with the "therapist" who told her that exposure would "harm" her marriage!!!

Ok. Fb and gmail being deleted. I have his yahoo. As soon as this screaming baby goes down I'll do his spyware. Since we are both off, I thought we could go to Verizon to have his # changed also

He already agreed to delete those accounts.

Did you ask where their letter of reprimand is? It sounds like they're willing to let you call the shots, and that worries me. It tells me that they aren't dictating squat to WH. Employers don't allow the WH's wife to direct this sort of thing.

How seriously are they taking this? You're not supposed to be letting THEM know the stipulations. THEY'RE supposed to be dictating their stipulations to your WH.

This worries me. Ask for that letter!

You haven't said anything about installing spyware to him, have you?

She sent threats to his email. As did her best guy friend. He brought them to me. Even though I already had em

Wanna borrow my paddle??

oooooooh, what did she say? When did she send them?

Ill c&p from the computer. She said [censored] is about to go in an irreparable state and the only one she is going after is me.

I'm shaking

No
I did not tell him about spyware! Just that his accts had to be deleted

The guy friend said between you and me it's been a rough year and I just want her to make it through this. He says she's unstable and can't take much more

And the work doesn't seem to be reprimanding

from her:

[censored] is about to go to a highly un repairable state and trust me when I say I do not give a [censored] any more... I have been nice but I'm beyond over it... She started it and if I have to I will finish it... Good bye!

from her best friend:
Thanks, *** is hurting enough she doesn't need anymore of this...between you and I and his been a terrible year for her and I just want to make sure she makes it through this
_____
Just a heads up one of ***s friends just got the message that your wife sent an hour again. So she hasn't stopped and rachel is very upset. She told me she wants you to be a man and step up or she will deal with sascha herself. She is unstable and can only take so much.
_________
What OW just told me

**edit**... She needs to sent out some [censored] retraction... It was sent a hour ago...And if its her [censored] friends she needs to stop them because the only person I'm going after is her

_________
it looks like her sent her a message earlier today. he says he told her to stop messaging him...but its deleted...the tme stamp is off so i cant tell when.

Don't you go shaking - she sent this because SHE is shaking. You told the truth, and she's running for cover like a cockroach.

Just delete it and go on with your evening. Yes, kiss and hug and be affectionate with your WH. (Sex, should it occur, NEEDS to be with protection until he passes an STD test.)

Have him come over tomorrow and work on the list there if he wants. If he's a good boy and gets it all done, maybe he can spend the night.

Just a little word about false recoveries. They are very, very common, and do not necessarily mean that your M won't R. So if at some point you do discover renewed contact, don't panic. Come on here and we'll walk you through dealing with it, ok?

As you can tell from my story, even a WH who is initially serious can be led astray pretty easily. The more precautions you put in place right at the beginning, the better your chances of avoiding this common pitfall.

Also, if the email and FB accounts don't delete immediately, go into them and change the password yourself, to something only you know. Then try again to delete them.

Ok spyware on
Laptop installed in the nick of time before he walked in *phew*

I dunno how to get his phone...I guess just say I want to
Hold it until we go to Verizon to change his #? will changing his # remove the spyware?

I had his affair email pw and he changed it I dunno when. He gave it to me right now and that's where I got the threats. I'm
Shaaaaking still. Ugh. So much for eating.

Can the spyware get removed by him? I guess I'll know.

Sex has to be protected bc I stopped bc o.O . Ugh we both just redid STD tests like 3 weeks ago >.< more blood

Good girl!!


I would take the phone and then put the spyware on his NEW phone. [without his knowledge, of course]


Yep! You will know pretty fast. And that should be a dealbreaker.

You are doing great!! You have this affair almost completely killed.

SHE'S the one who's shaking, confused.

Don't let this throw you for a minute! How DARE that nasty piece of trash cop an attitude because she got caught screwing around with another man's wife!

You've nailed her hard, and she's responding exactly like a good little tramp who wants to be taken seriously would. Ignore her, but keep an eye on her. Your next move is a restraining order against her. Her next move is...nothing.

I would consider it an act of Christian kindness if you were to inform this 'guy friend' that skankho OW would heal much faster from her instability if she were to stop screwing around with a married man. Who has children! A family who has NO ROOM for her in their life.

Tell this 'guy friend' that she'll be much happier once she stops trying to destroy a family.

I need to get him a new phone? I was just going to change the number. If I install tonight, and change his # tomorrow, will
The spyware uninstall

I misunderstood and thought you were getting him another phone. It seems like the spyware would work regardless of the # as long as it is the same phone.

No it will not unless you flash the phone itself. Changing the # is good as it prevents OW from calling him, however, it will not prevent him from contacting her if that were to be an issue, which from how it sounds wouldn't be.

I do want to let you know that I have been following your thread since you started it and you have shown great resolve and have definately come along very quickly. I hope for you that you have a successful R with you WH.

Im gonna tell my work tomorrow I'm being threatened in case she pulls crud

Thank you <3

So I can install tonight and it will stay on?

Does skanky know that you exposed her at her job yet?

Yes, so long as you DO NOT flash(erase) the phone's memory after you have the number changed, the activation of the new # will not affect the memory unless you have Verizon flash the memory. If you go to a Verizon store, make sure u request that the memory not be flashed. I would say it would be a good idea to do this w/o WH there as it may raise his suspicion.

Ok I'll do that.

No I don't think she does I'm kinda worried.

Just FYI, my husband and skank broke up and got back together several times during the affair. Don't let it discourage you. It will fizzle....

Everyone is different and everyone copes with experiences differently.
Some people would like you to define your experience as rape, so that you may see the importance and bearing of it, while others will encourage you to not call it that and or to brush it off.

Technically, rape can be perfectly defined, you can find those definitions on the internet and in the law.
Luckily, we are far removed from the days, where men where allowed to do with their wives as they may, including forcing sex on them or beating them.

On the other hand, we must admit, that no two people are alike and no two situations are alike. For many women there is a huge difference between being raped at knifepoint by a stranger who jumps out of the bush, or being more or less playfully coerced by their husband, or being forced to have sex by their husband who treats them like dirt, and so on. While for others, all of these situations, have the same bearing. With this, I do not want to say, it should be condoned, in any way, shape or form, to force someone to have sex with you. What I do want to say is, that you should be aware what happened, think it over for yourself, and determine what the meaning of that is for you and only for you.

We should beware to try to push our feelings onto others. Only you can live your life and only you can determine how best to cope with the situations you will experience. Some people cope by brushing things of, some will need professional treatment, some will not attach much emotion to it and make it something that just happened once. As long as you are honest to yourself, all strategies are legitimate. You will have to make that decision for yourself. Your therapist does not live your life. She had some 'therapist education' I'm sure, but who knows in what subjects she got a C? And we are only beginning to see scientific evidence for what the best strategy is to help people cope with things, and even then, what is good for 80% of people may not be good for the other 20%.

If you felt assaulted and grossed out when you were 17, you don't have to define it as rape, just because others would like you to. They won't have to live your life. It is yours and you sound like you are perfectly able to think for yourself. You make your own decisions.
---
As to your husband and his sex drive, I can somewhat relate to that, as I've always had a high sex drive and wanting it more than one time a day and getting it 2 times a week can make you feel really frustrated. (In my case, it does feel somewhat like hunger - not easy to ignore a goodlooking pastry when you feel you're starving on a diet with too little calories.) The problem with your husband is not primarily his sex drive, but that he will let you feel bad, so that he can feel good. Dr. Harley wrote a nice article on that. The two of you can most certainly find many creative solutions so that both of you can be happy. But the solution cannot be, that he forces himself on you, without any kind of emotional connection, nice words, feeling loved. And then do with you as he pleases for a few minutes to get his high. What's in it for you? No foreplay, no affection, probably goes about his business right away, once he is done. That's enough to make anyone's appetite for SF to go away. (Would do it for me, I would then be Mrs. once-a-month probably ;-)

Once you start to recover, you will get to the meeting of emotional needs part. In that way, you get to address how you would like this need to be met, because I bet although you get more SF than you want, your need is not met in a way you are happy with. When you start meeting each others EN's and sharing UA and have fallen back in love, this need should be met better for BOTH of you.

Oh and PLEASE lose that marriage counselor. How is any woman going to feel better by looking at girls having xxx who look as if they spend all day in the gym and all summer getting boob jobs and have a team of make-up artists, hair dressers and lighting experts to make them look better thant best? Can I have a lighting expert in my own bedroom too? And a hair stylist, to do my hair between positions??? And a make-up artist to cover the zit on my but and to bleach my (certain body parts that should not be bleached)... Come on. You don't want to pale in comparison, do you? She can go make a movie herself if she thinks it's such a good idea.

Also, your husband seems to have picked up some bad habits anyway, which will be reinforced if he sees porn queen wanting it anywhere, everywhere, anytime with everyone. Not a very healthy notion for someone who just slithered past divorce for not being able to control himself in the real world. You can spend the MC money better.

Sorry this is such a long post, but I had to get that off my chest

You are doing great so far! Keep it up.

God bless Happyheart.


P.S.
As the children get older and less of a hassle, you will discover you have more energy for yourself and everything else.

Thank you happyheart. I did lose that counselor a few months ago.searching for a new one. I have a personal therapist as does he (as of yesterday).

Update: no spyware install on his phone bc he talked about looking at new phones when we change his #. I sure hope he gets a droid bc that's the program I bought. Also because her threats are vague, I am going to let my work know I'm being threatened, so in case she tries to allege anything (I'm thinking eye for an eye if her work confronts her. I also am going to print what I have and take it to the sherriffs. Just in case and because I want something on file if she tries anything weird. Wh thinks I'm not in danger but he said "you'll be fine as long as you stop. She is unstable". My only concern is that she said "if it's her friends she better stop them bc the only person I'm going after is her"... Ow alleges she was harassed on her phone 10/10-3/11 and finally blocked her #, also that she got a Xmas card w explicit insults at work. When she told mr this, I had no idea. None of MY friends are admitting to this. I've told them all to leave it alone as I have a plan and that I cannot discuss anything about her, even in jest.

Do
I have enough to get anything from the cops?

Great post HH, spot on IMO.

The police? Without more threats or a prevuios record of hers I would guess no.

But bringing your concerns to the sheriff is still a good idea.

Even if I can't get a tro or no contact order, can I file a report of some sort? In case she tries to damage my reputation in some way...my friend said "if I where her, I wouldn't hurt you, I'd ruin your reputation-Cps, file harassment, call your job"

The only thing I saw damaging is wh told her he was afraid to tell me bc last tine I threatened to take my life-which is NOT true. I have a therapist and a psychiatrist who could back me up.

Also...he emailed w her yesterday before he left work. But they are deleted. He says she was bombarding him about the fb messages and he had to tell her to stop.

What do
I do w that? Technically he did what I asked at that time-quit work-but its ridiculous he talked w her....but I didn't give him the list of conditions until later..but it makes mr so mad it was after he "chose" me.

I've been up all night in n out of the restroom awake worried about the threats and these emails. He thinks it's dumb I sent fb stuff (to bad) and it's dumb I want to go to the sherriffs.

confused, his contiunued contact with the OW is going to be a dealbreaker. He did not do what you asked at all, he CONTACTED HER. And the fact that he keeps hiding it tells me this is NOT OVER. He obviously would not have deleted it if all he did was tell her to buzz off, so he is lying about that.

I would insist he come clean about that and STOP all contact NOW. You have a right to know what he said to her. Tell him this will not work unless he comes CLEAN. NO MORE LIES. NO MORE LIES!

Also, I would FORWARD your workplace exposure letter to that skank so she knows you have exposed her there. Forward it so the names and dates show up. She needs to know that that upper management knows all about her now so there is no sense in denying it.

Don't you DARE let that filthy ho bully you into silence. Don't you DARE let her bully you into hiding her filthy affair with your husband.

Ok. I talked to him and told him all that...I also asked him about porn and he said yes he does watch and I told him not to. He says ok.

I'm super afraid of plan b. Ugh. I just hope he can be honest.

We are deleting his email accts today.

How should I forward the letter to hr to her? I don't want to get in trouble for harassment.

Send it via email. Forward it to her email account so she can SEE who was sent to. That is not harassment. She is harassing you by having an affair with your husband. And don't tell your husband you did this. You need to let her know that you are not going to back down, that you are very serious. VERY SERIOUS. And she had better buzz off if she knows what is good for her.

See, she will start trying to get ahold of him in a frenzied state and he will get sick of this REAL QUICK.

Of course he thinks its dumb. He wants it to remain his secret fantasy double life.

Don't get sucked into the drama here. Exposure merely brings the ugly A into the light of day and seeks support for the BS from those who have influence over the wayward. You have done nothing wrong and it is not mean or vindictive. It is a necessary step in killing the A by getting rid of the secrecy under which affairs thrive.

My bet is that OW's threats are lame and empty attempts to get you to back down in your fight against this A. Let her continue to act like a psycho and dig her own grave.

You, on the other hand, remain strong and focused.

He is trying to minimize the damage he has caused. Don't let him. He needs to feel the tsunami effect of the fallout from his affair. He's making this out to be no big deal so he can feel less guilty. IT IS A BIG DEAL. It's the worst thing that will ever happen to you - don't allow him to make you feel like you're over-reacting.

Also, after the affair is completely over and the two of you are recovering, the painful memory of his actions will help keep him in line. The more painful the memory, the less he's going to want to repeat the action.

Keep going, confused. You're doing very well! It's refreshing to see a BS come to this site and actually listen to what we say and DO it. We get plenty who will hear the plan and will argue with us about it . Some are on this site right now, arguing that exposure and snooping are mean/untrustworthy/invasive things to do. Meanwhile, their spouse's affair rolls merrily along.

You are doing just great, confused!! The only problem I see is that your first reaction to most everything is FEAR. But then you think it over and work through it and take action. That shows GREAT COURAGE. You are a courageous woman.

Now, if you can learn to automatically push the fear aside you will get into the habit of not allowing to dictate your actions. Don't be afraid of that skank, she is the one who has done something wrong, NOT YOU. She needs to worry about you, not the other way around.

In other words, don't let FEAR dictate your actions. Keep pulling through it like you have been doing. Don't let that STD ho make you afraid. There is nothing she can do to you. Just do the right thing and you will have nothing to fear. It is SHE who has something to FEAR because she is in the wrong. She should be very fearful of you.

Confused, that ho thought she had it all going on. She thought you were some wimpy-assed little hausfrau who couldn't take care of her man. She thought you would roll over for this affair.

BUT YOU DIDN'T! Imagine HER surprise! So she's doing the only thing she can think of to back you off - making threatening noises. Well, whoopdedoo, you skank! Get your hands off other women's husbands!!

Nasty little ho....

They are all empty threats, don't worry about them. It is blame shifting, not taking responsibility for their own actions, they think if you shout the hardest you will overwhelm the truth, not going to happen.

Stay strong, you are doing amazing!

EGG ZAK LEE

Create your own 'mantra' to use when you feel fear washing over you.

Examples:

I am CERTAIN I will not live with an adulterous husband.
I am CERTAIN I will protect myself and insure my safety.
I am CERTAIN I will not be overcome by fear.
I am CERTAIN I will stick to my healthy boundaries.

Aside:

When I am lost or confused by my fears, I do this.
I take slow deep breaths and say (in my mind) "in with serenity" and when I exhale, I say (think) "out with fear". I repeat this about 10 times. By then, I feel calm.
I used this recently (very effectively) when I was in the hospital.

Just some pointers to help you follow Mel's advice !!!!!!

Thank you! I'm driving by her house to get her address now. Have no fear I'm just grabbing address and leaving.

I'm mailing the no contact letter. Regular mail or certified?

CERTIFIED! REGISTERED, SO SHE HAS TO SIGN FOR IT!

Yes ok !

He's being such a baby. All irritated and silent.

The sherriff told me a report would be useless. Also since the emails went to his email he has to file, in a court 30m away for a *possible* tro

hmmmm what is this all about???

I dunno. We deleted his emails today, went to my work to get certified mail stuff, went to the post office and stopped at the sherriffs. He's all irritated. He says "I'm just tired of beating a dead horse"...etc. He's moping.

Id imagine he's ashamed. He also thinks I'm stirring the pot..but oh well.

He was irritated I went to the police station and made him write the letter. Which I just said what you guys said-it's a condition. He went through like 6 drafts of crumpling and rewriting...

Also he emailed his work about us meeting. Maybe Monday bc apparently the hr lady is out today. But I'll look at his work email w him when we get a reply

I would remind him that this is ALL VOLUNTARY!! He does not have to do anything on your list. If he doesn't want to reconcile, you will understand. Tell him "I will be disappointed but I do not want to make you do anything!! You can feel free to reject my offer!!"

But if he accepts, you don't expect him to behave like a punk about it.

Would this be classic signs of withdrawal? I would expect some anger also as you are the one who took his fun OW away.

Anyone have the thread on withdrawal symptoms?

Could this be why he is irritated? Is he hiding something about the work arrangement?

How does the letter look? Remember, if it is not to your satisfaction it is not acceptable. It has to be written in a way that you would approve.

This makes me nervous.

No, he is not in withdrawal. He just spoke to his OW yesterday. He is irritated about doing basic affair proofing. That is a problem and I am concerned.

C&T, I really have to take my hat off to you. You're not only doing splendidly, but you've had to do about a month's worth of work and dealing with A-drama, compressed down into a couple of days.

Truly amazing.

Don't fret over OW's threats. Really, what can she do? Try to make a court case out of "Your Honor, that woman told the truth about me banging her husband, and that makes me mad. Please, oh please, will you punish her? So what if telling the truth isn't against the law? There must be something WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" ??? Not likely to happen.

Don't stress too much over WH's childish behavior. Time will soon tell whether he's just entering withdrawal or is still somehow in contact. Just be your own fabulous self, and continue with all the good things in Plan A.

I don't like that contact yesterday with those deleted emails. That may be something you need to let the company know about, especially if you feel you aren't getting a truthful answer from him about it.

Other than that, carry on - you're doing super!

I am concerned about the emails yesterday.

I reminded him it's voluntary...he says he knows it's just "stupid." I said well I'm protecting my family and myself.

I have a bad feeling.

Refresh my memory. Did you get the spyware on his phone? Does he have any way left to contact her?

When does actual withdrawal start after the last contact? Do you think it could also mean he is still in contact? Just trying to determine the initial reaction of withdrawal versus still in contact. I am not sure if I know the difference actually.

With the last verified contact only yesterday, it's not even possible to tell. Contact will make him grouchy, and withdrawal will make him grouchy.

Where you start to see a difference is in the longer term. If he's in contact, he will stay grouchy, sullen, foggy, and not show any substantial improvement. If he's actually in withdrawal, over the coming weeks you will begin to see peeks, then longer and longer glimpses, of the good person he can become. Even with ups and downs, the general trend shows progress.

So without letting yourself get tied in knots about it, continue to monitor all avenues. Be aware that, although this A has almost certainly been dealt a death blow, it's still twitching and snarling a bit. Either wayward can breathe new life into it, at least for a short time.

His attitude and the recent contact probably mean that there is more drama in your immediate future. Long-term, I am very optimistic about your chances of success.

A WH who is sincere will have hat in hand on bended knee. He won't be grudging and irritated. I have my doubts that the affair is really over.

I bought the spyware I need to get alone time to install it.the only thing I can't monitor is if he creates a new email on his phone... I know all her numbers so I can check # and text logs

He seems in a better mood now...but not hat in hands..more like pretending normalcy...he wants me to go on a hike w him

He says he was just thinking earlier to himself >.>

What excuse can I have to get his phone?!?

Does he ever fall asleep? Or do you need it in the daytime?

He's a pretty light sleeper. I tried last night and he woke up when I came out. And he plays pandora on it which he showers. Maybe if he sets it down while his brother is here...it just takes a few. And I don't know how to ask "hey can I see your phone?" and go off with it. I thought about setting it down w the kids here and if he looked for it, putting it lime in the kids rpo
"oh baby got it" but I want that shtuff on there asap!

His computer activity is boring so far. One xxx thing popped up but activity shows like 2 secs so I think it's a pop up?

Lol, yeah, remind him he is getting the deal of his lifetime, a second chance, and he should be happy he got it

Work emails are never "really" deleted. Even if he empties the trash folder, most companies have a folder they goto.

Check his sent and trash folders then in outlook there is something like restore deleted mail.

Also, I would add that to the stipulations that he can delete the emails but cant empty the trash.

As far as getting his phone, "forget" yours at home and while you are out, tell him you need to make a call while going to the restroom. If he balks, there is something on there you need to see.

All my FWH's activity was on his droid. He never used the laptop for the A.

He keeps rubbing my ring finger...do I put my ring on?

It was gmail not work. They didn't have work emails *that I've found*

IMO, you should never have taken it off. You're not resigning a position, sweetie. You committed to your WH in marriage. Put the ring back on.

Ok good I like it. I took it off before I found mb

That is strange that a company used Gmail for there business emails. Did the HR people have gmail accounts? That sounds funny.

Why don't you just ask him to trade phones with you?

Tell him that it will make you feel more secure to know that OW is not texting him.

He's agreed to end it -- and has sent the letter. He should be done. There should be no "issue". You can always hand him the phone if he gets a call.

Bingo!

No the gmail is his personal (now deleted). His work email is not how they communicated

Yea I can ask him to trade...maybe at least temporarily until I get that installed. I'll try the forgot my phone tonight...I'm probably over worrying. I just don't want to blow my cover

I'm down with this, was waiting for one of you guys to mention it.

Why were you waiting?

Great idea, Lexxy!

His work replied to his request to meet that they are available 830a Monday but prefer a conference call.

(I'm thinking they don't want me flipping out in the building lol)

What a disrespectful request! Oh, they would prefer not to see the wife, would they?? They want to keep you and this whole tawdry business at the arm's length of a sterile phone call that they would control, do they?

You need to be there in PERSON. Look good, put on some perfume and be at your professional best. Tell them you're sorry, but it is important enough to you that you prefer to meet personally.

Ok I'll help him write the reply email

Ok so also his temperament seems ok, but "normal" as opposed to repentant. He is being attentive... Constant questions about what I want etc. He wants to go to dinner...I think his bro and wife are coming..they are bring very close to us. Constantly checking w me morning and night. It's sweet.

I've gotta get that gd phone! Maybe I'll get lucky when he showers

Nope. Heeft the phone out and came back and grabbed it and is playing music on it :-/ I'll have to try the bathroom thing at dinner...doesn't that seem suspicious? For mr to "forget" the phone I've been attached to all day

Oh IDK, didn't want to bombard her with advice, she is doing so well, and I knew someone would see it eventually. The night wouldn't pass though where I would not have mentioned it if she worried about it much longer.

C&T, he should hand his phone over so you can have it during non work hours, and he is not working for a couple of days. This should be part of the agreement you have with him now that he has chose you over skankypants.

You can get the number changed, and then install the spyware tommorow. I would insist on this while the iron is hot if I were you, and yes, if you didn't list it in the agreements letter, you still have the right to ask for the phone. Blame the reason you didn't stipulate it on the fact that,"I'm sorry dear, I am not used to handling an affair, I am learning though!"

That should put some starch in his shorts

confused, why can't you just tell him that you need to exchange phones with him just to feel safe. Until his number is changed. Tell him you need that protection.

If he even hesitates a moment at swapping phones, be very, very suspicious.

We already changed the number. I'll just ask tonight

If he refuses, don't force the issue. Just watch like a hawk, and in the next day or two you'll get the time you need. He can't be on guard every second of the day, and sooner or later he'll make a tiny mistake.

That's all you need, and once you see what's on the phone, you'll know what the next step in your plan should be.

I got it installed!

My only worry : does the blaster phone one track if he opens a new email
Acct and does emails? It shows websites but it doesn't look like it's like the computer one where it records keystrokes or emails

Ps I don't see anything weird on the phone

It says web history text voice and location...

But if he makes an email in an app...also I can't tell
If I get to see actual text from text msgs or just history

confused, you should be able to see exactly what the texts say and the content of any emails sent or received.

I wanted to pop in and say that my FWH went from a lukewarm response to recovery and full transparency to very warm and receptive in a couple of weeks. So it may possibly take a little while for the last shreds of fog to completely dissipate.

He thought I would mess up his email in some way and felt like he was being spied on at first.

So keep checking on all communications but be aware that his fully remorseful self may take a little while to appear as he begins to truly take in what he has done to you and your family, and really, also to himself.

And really great courageous work from you...Wow...

You are still legal wife?

Then you don't have to give back car.

No, Road - this was discussed when she thought he would be quitting his job. Her car is a company car.

Yes what marital says-it's linked to his job. If he wasn't quitting he said he'd let me keep it. He said we could put in a divorce that I get to still use his benefits. He was very much sorry he wasn't deciding on me at first and wasn't caring about what I'd take. I realize that could change but yea.

51-thank you. He seems less irritated...he wants to constantly be near me and kind of tiptoes. He keeps asking me if I'm ok. I smile, tell him I love him, and just that I'm a little sad but I'll be ok. My stomachs still really sick. Everytime I manage to eat I get sick and must be in the restroom for a while (sorry tmi) I'm just nervous. This happened dday1 also but worse. I can't hide my feelings entirely but I'm not being mean...I just still feel a little down

How do you get over thinking about him holding her? Having sex w her? Going to her? It's hard.

Anyway I'll keep you posted on the phone spyware...he hasn't used it much since I installed (we went to dinner w friends , watched a movie on the couch, went to bed). He took his pillow to go on the couch and I asked why. He said I didn't ask him to come in the room..I told him he's met my conditions and I have proof the job thing is in process (his boss copied his work emails to his personal email which I'm watching) so he can be home for everything that means, but no slipups.

Has anyone else used blaster mobile? Bc the location is way wrong...it says he was at some random address 3 miles away all night..but he was in bed w me

That is odd. I have used it before and it was very exact, down to the exact HOUSE address. Sometimes it would vary by 100' or so, but not more than that. Are you certain?

One of her friends sent me a long email saying I'm just as low as she is sending that fb message and trying to ruin her life..and that I should've left him the first time so the Shame is on me

Did he sleep with you? Is he committed to the recovery of your marriage?

Whew, what a lack of support and understanding when someone puts telling the truth and asking for help with ending an affair in the same category as adultery. There will always be those who take that stance; others will be noncommittal and sit on the fence. Then there will be those select few who really get what you're trying to do and will help. Try not to pay attention to the dissenters. Who knows what they are thinking anyway?

Yea instead of our address it says one a ways away...and im positive he was here...we watched a movie, went to bed. I'm not sleeping well so I was up and down, he never left. Plus our front door us super loud bc it gets stuck

In bed with you AND at a house 3 miles away at the same time? He must have a split personality

I do not know how the program pinpoints the location. There are 2 possibilities: GPS, which is give or take a few metres exact, or it uses the locations of the cell phone transmission pole locations, which is somewhat less exact and if you live in a rural area, it could be that there are deviations.

If this happens more often (you can look what it says while he was with you) maybe you should contact the flexispy company?

You are doing great GREAT, by the way.

God Bless,
Happyheart

Be very careful about the benefits. I used to work in a benefits department for a large company. If a couple was divorced, the spouse who was not working for the company was dropped as soon as the change in marital status was entered in the system. The only way the spouse could keep the coverage was to pay the higher cost for COBRA, and that was for a limited period of time. Best to call the HR department yourself and find out. Each company has its own rules.

You don't need the approval of brainless halfwits. Just ignore it!

Yea ill deal w benefits if it comes to that. I can get them at my work and just make him keep the kids on his.

Melody-he did come to bed I guess he was waiting for me to ask. As for your 2nd q "is he committed to recovery of marriage" how do I know? Besides if he follows my list and doesnt mess up?

Yea Mel, it was just hurtful. She replied and asked how I'd feel if she told all my friends how sexually unsatisfied my husband mustve been and how embarrassing that I allowed this twice.I replied and told her go ahead, because they all already know and the shame isn't on me.

You can't reason with stupid women, so don't even try. Some people are just not bright. It is not your fault she is a stupid woman so don't let it bother you.

Yup in farm country thats what happens ussually. It depends if the phone accually has a GPS installed, and its turned on, or uses the triangulation version of cell phone tower location. If true GPS, (using sattelitees), it would need a view of the sky.

I wouldn't worry about the GPS funtion, just use the other features and they can be counted on.

There are 2 camps with views on exposure

1. The ones that applaud you for your guts, and go behind your back saying 'boy I wish I had the strength and guts to do that if my S cheats on me'. Those are the people with ethics and morals. Upstanding people. Some will not say it to your face, but they'll still think it.
2. The ones that vilify you for it. They are horrified you did this because............... they got something to hide themselves, either active in an affair themselves or have been. It is NOT something they want to have happening to them. They are often the loudest voices. The louder the voice, the more you should distrust them

Agree. They are often people who have cheated themselves. When you consider that adultery affects 50% of marriages, it only stands to reason that about 50% of the people you are exposing to have had an affair themselves. So they have an emotional investment in hiding adultery.

Tell them the truth is never libel/slander, but telling lies is. They would have to proof in court how sexually unsatisfied your husband must have been. And please let me know when that court date is, I would love to be there to hear them proof that.

What I mean is he committed to going through this program and using all the steps? Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? The idea is to first affair proof your marriage. You have done a good job on that! And the next step is to recover the romance in your marriage and create a BETTER MARRIAGE than you had before the affair.

See, most marriages do not ever recover from affairs. They might stay together but they limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage. When that happens, they fall completely out of love and your resentment just grows and grows. The solution to that is to create a mrriage that was better than your pre-affair marriage.

So I would start working on a plan to turn this around now. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? It has a really good plan in it.

I kinda wanted the gps for when I can't account for him >.>

About the GPS, do you need to calibrate it? I think I remember somewhere about not all services being equally accurate untill you turn it on. I'm often a couple of house down too

Maybe contacting the manufacturer would be a good idea, they would be more expert on how it works with the model phone he has also.

I would assume that it hadn't had a chance to calibrate, because you just installed it, and it hadn't been out and about yet. But that is just speculation, find out from the experts

Ok. I'll call Monday at work.

Should I get 2 copies of the book? He agreed to try the mb program..I just hadn't gotten that far yet (been busy o.O lol)

I don't want crippled. I want better.

Don't know what your schedule is like, but we have HNHN,LB, and SAA, one copy of each and read them aloud at night to each other. We often stop and discuss at will.

If you have $1000 the Online Program is great and has lots of accountability, plus you can post in the private forum directly to Dr. Harley.

If followed, MB has great success. Our marriage was good before the A (happened during deployment) but we both agree it's even better and very passionate and romantic. H insists it's not work at all to meet my ENs because, I think, I'm meeting his at the same time. MB is really helpful for couples who are both on board.

You can get one SAA book and then get the workbook [Five Steps to Romantic Love] that goes with it. [it has the undivided attention worksheets in and you can make copies] The way to do it is to read a few chapters a night and then start the lessons when you get to that part.

And I wonder if the GPS will correct itself once he gets away from your home? I don't know. That really bugs me because you need that feature. I know others who have used that app and it was very exact, usually within 50 feet.

That is a great idea! Another idea that Harley has suggested is to get highlighters in different colors and mark the sentence/paragraph that you want your spouse to pay special attention to. I would, however, avoid His Needs, Her Needs until he defogs. Lovebusters and SAA are great books for now.

Ok I'll get a copy of all 3. I don't really have the extra 1000. We just worked to pay off 15k in debt using the dave ramsey plan so we don't have more than a few thousand saved. Throw in him quoting his job (or whatever is happening), me needing a new car if he leaves his work, and a themoney ill have to spend if he messes up on
Plan b/divorce...I'm not comfortable spending 1000 right now. I have about 3k that was supposed to go to cc...but since this all happened I'm going to put it away as a nest egg just in case and pay min on cc...until the job stuff is all secure

He just left to take our kids to his moms so we can write an email to his boss together and clean the house (we are both neatfreaks and in the last week and a half I let it go bc I was under a rock and he dealt w kids for the same reason).

I have to go to an art show my gma is in at 2...he doesn't want to go bc he says the $30 is a waste...I'm hoping his cousin comes over to keep tabs on him >.>

I read SAA first, on my own. When my H was mostly defogged, he read SAA, also on his own. We didn't discuss it very much at the time, but reading it really helped him with the rest of the defog.

In the MB Online course, we were also guided to complete LB first. First plug up any holes, then move on to HNHN. Listening the radio show is also a great help to marriage. H is very open to that and marvels at Dr. Harley's logical approach to marriage and how good it's been to learn it.

Can we get the radio show in the car?

Ok so I'll start saa. I'm cuurently reading "after the affair" which my therapist suggested, and my friend whose husband did almostbtge same thing as mine dday1.

Its more about helping my emotions though I think.

I am still on shock that this plan a worked (thusfar). I thought fir sure asking him to leave meant the end.

Thank you ladies for everything. I'm sure I'll have more questions.

What phone do you have? They have an Iphone app. and working on Droid but on the Droid you can still listen to the archives.

You can just goto the radio archive link at the top of this page from your droid and then "search archives" and you can listen to previous days shows.

I've not been able to get my droid to stream the live show reliably. I can get bits and parts of it but not the whole thing so I just am a day behind.

Forgot to say, I have my phone blue tooth to the car so I can listen to it on the car speakers.

Oh cool. I have bluetooth in my car and iPhone. He has droid.

Update: I do get the text convos. *score*


I just hope if he used the gmail app to make a new email I'd get to see that to. If he where to relapse I'm sure that's how communication would go

Ignore these messages. They're from ignorant people and your mission is to expose the affair, not educate ignorant people. Your mission is accomplished.

PLEASE put that book aside. And make sure your husband doesn't read it. The author, Spring, says:

"I don't make blanket judgments about whether affairs are, in themselves, good or bad."



You don't even need for your husband to be reading such bullcrap rationalizations. I ASSURE you that Dr Harley will tell anyone and everyone that AFFAIRS ARE THE MOST DESPICABLE THING YOU CAN DO TO YOUR SPOUSE!! That book is good for coddling adulterers.


You are very brave!! They RARELY leave when you put your foot down. He has too much to lose to sacrifice everything for that skank. We knew you had alot of leverage and that you just needed to USE it.

The way Harley explained it is that SAA was written for the adulterer and HNHN was written for the betrayed spouse. So when they discuss which books to send callers, for example, he will tell Joyce to not send HNHN to an active/recently active adulterer. Rather, he wants them to read SAA. And the reason is because HNHN does discuss how a BS can contribute to the conditions that leads to an affair [inadvertantly] and SAA softpeddles that part. He doesn't want a foghorn - who is looking for rationalizations - to grab onto the message that is conveyed in HNHN.

When we went through the MB program, they had us read Lovebusters first just like you did.

Confused, has the phone been turned off and then back on a few times? That might 'kick start' it.

Good idea!

Mine showed my H was in Hong Kong once. I didnt have the same program though. I canceled the program when I saw that. He was with me at the time in town.

I have found the eblaster program to be extremely precise so I am hoping that it is just a matter of calibration.

I'll turn it off and on tonight. I asked to see it last night..my friebd was over and has the same phone and wh has been having probs so I said "maybe me & friebd can compare yours to hers, can I see? And I went in the kitchen w her. Wh and friends hubby watched tosh.o

I asked to read his texts and he handed it over. So
I'm good there. He's bike riding now to go get my car from the dealer (w his cousin)... Maybe it'll start working once ge moves around.

My baby brother wants ne to go to a haunted carnival tonight...I asked wh to go and he said he really doesn't feel up to going. He hadn't been eating either and says he feels run down. I said oh, ok I'll stay home. He said "how about my 2 cousins and brother come over and help me w the kids and you go w your brother-you can take my phone and car keys and laptop if you want." good sign?

Ok when he went out it does show his moms address right....so maybe it'll work better now. He's riding to the dealership...I'll watch for it to catch that addrss right.

Do you know if it only posts the address when he stops? I'm just trying to get used to it.

(this is kinda fun)

Sounds like he is trying and really thinking of your feelings. Dont get discuraged if he backslides a bit when withdrawl sets in.

Dont stop snooping becuase that is what builds your trust back. The more you snoop and dont find anything the better it gets.

It sounds like he's starting to go through withdrawal. I think I'd stay home with him.

How about his 2 cousins and brother come and pick up the kids for a few hours? And you fix the two of you a nice dinner. (While you've got your makeup on and you're looking your prettiest. )

Triangluation for the gps

It must connect between three cell towers for accuracy

The time between the signals connecting, or "talking to" each tower determines the distance from each tower and the location

If it only has one tower it is connecting to, it sees thatower as the location

In rural areas, this happens sometimes

Moving around and connecting to different towers, calibrates it, and that's what I would do first

Confused, I wouldn't squander any of your available time on going out with family members. Find a sitter and go out ALONE with your husband. I would get in the habit of spending the majority of your free time with him, without kids and friends.

A critical factor in recovery is spending 20 hours per week in order to create a romantic relationship with your husband.

You are doing great, btw!!

Thanks, constantprocess! I was hoping it was something like that. It seems to be working now so you must be right. Hopefully it will show the correct address when she gets home.

True GPS looks at the satellites

Most GPS s in phones work on triangulation

When there is less than 3 towers to connect to, it's best guess

It will still work well for tracking purposes, just not perfectly, all the time.

Depends on the cell towers and where you are, and the time and travel it requires for calibration

Ok

I would get into the habit of finding things to do together. When you spend your leisure time apart like this you become detached and develop independent, incompatible lifestyles. This is one area where the program can really help.

Yes I hope so too

Mine cuts out when I'm in Gods country, and only one cell tower can make a connection, but because she will be tracking him probably in areas that have a lot of cell towers, it will still prove invaluable to her to see if he is where he says he is

There are a lot of towers out there now

20 hours per week w no kids? Oof. Ok we can probably get close.

I always feel bad shifting my kids all over to sitters

Oh and we live in a big suburban city in one of the largest major cities in the us. We are not rural lol!

Sweetie, I think you'll feel better doing that than trading them back and forth for weekend visits with an ex-husband, right?

I have a $20 giftcard to a wine bar...or 150 to a fancy steakhouse. Should I create a nice date night? Or should I save it for later?

@confused

The Samsung Facinate had GPS issues when it was initially released. They did push an update that fixed it. The problem was it took it forever to get a position lock.

I am certian that the location reported last night was NOT from the GPS, but from cell tower position calculation.

One thing about spyware on a smartphone ogetting location info comstantly is that constantly turning on the GPS radio drains the battety. This would make an android phone user suspicious of what is causing the sudden decrease in battery life. That being said, don't get too bent over the location reports.

When you get HNHN get the one for parents. The best thing you can do for your kids is to have a good marriage first. The kids will benifet from having a happy home.

HNHN for parents help you work out the timing but you need to work on building your love bank up with your husband first.

You can help him with withdrawl if you are around reminding him by looking your best and doing your best that he made the correct choice.

Tonight would be great!!

Yes marital that's true.

Does family time not count in the 20 hours?

Ok...I do want him to go w me to the art show but he won't. I really don't want to go either but I promised gma. It should only be 2 hours. Then the date night?

He likes to shower together nightly (we've done this for a long time, have 2shower heads even)...I'll resume that also. Maybe I can get I
The mood tonight...in case he is going in withdrawal

I can't think of a better time than the present. However, he may really be getting sick. (I don't know where you're located, but there's a nasty cold making the rounds in my neck of the woods and it's nailing everyone.) That's why I suggested dinner in instead of out. But heck yeah - put on your party duds and go out for a romantic dinner if he's willing!

Ok I'll surprise him. I'll go make reservations

Save it for when he's EARNED it!

Nah we all just had that cold...that's part of how his reveal of FR came about. I think the guilt of spending 2 nonstop days w me and without get killed him

I lost 5 pounds since last week so if he wasn't eating either he probably is run down. Plus he does martial arts and the day I kicked hi
Out he basically let himself get the crap beat outta him

Also dont push him to goto the art thing because if he went and didnt have fun it would be a love buster. You need to do things you both like to do together.

The best thing you can do for the kids is have a GREAT marriage with their dad. Couples that are in love, don't get divorced. And your kids need for you to have a stable marriage for their security. It doesnt hurt them one bit to be with babysitters, but it would hurt them if your marriage broke up. So go out ALOT with their dad.

UA time is not to be earned, 92. It's to be prioritized and nurtured.

Well crap that's conflicting advice lol.

Now or later?!

We could do the wine bar and grab takeout on the way home...

This is one of those times you can practice POJA. Never do anything without the enthusiatic agreement of both of you. While it does not apply to snooping and getting out of the affair it does apply with Rec. companionship.

I'm sure if you explained to you Gma that you are working on your marriage she would understand. Choose your husband over you family.

Ok what's ua? I forgot.

Part of me wants to sock away every penny but we both really enjoy nice nights out. AND that's something he wouldnt get w her...not to be mean...she's a little...ummm....I can't think
Of a nice way to say it.

NOW!!

Poja?

Now is the time to have a long, romantic evening. You need LOTS of them. It would be great to dress up and go out on the town. But I would first check with him and make sure he likes that idea. You really need to be alone.

UA= undivided Attention
POJA = policy of joint agreement.

Here is a link to the basic conscpets.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/3/194

After you read this, you can click to the left on any you want to read more about. Untill you get the books this will give you a crash coarse to get you started re-building the love banks.

What she means is getting his enthusiastic agreement.

Thanks.

Ok I'll ask him when he gets home if he'd like to go out tonight. If he says no, I'll ask what he'd like me to make for dinner (he was supposed to make taquitos).

We *could* leave the kids w his mom overnight. I hate doing that...they don't keep my kids clean enough and they never get enough sleep. I'd have to see if he sent extra clothes. He packed their bag

Ok. I read alot of the articles I'll re-read. It's just a ton! Lol

We had a whole weekend in a secluded cabin in the mountains where we didnt even have cell service 2 weeks after no contact and it really helped. I knew he could not have contact because he was with me and no service. We played board games, sat in front of the fire, talked, went for long walks. That was the best thing we could have done to jump start our recovery.

That is a great idea!! You can just give them a bath when they come home.

"GPS", or Global Positioning System", is not really a good name for what is used on phones

"Cell tower triangulation" doesn't sell that well and well, you can figure out the rest

It's just a buzzword, and because some phones used to have "true" GPS years ago, the buzzword just morphed over for customer understanding and sales.

But on the subject of time spent together, it is very important that you do this, 20 hours a week, no distractions.

This relationship is in need of repair, and in time, you will wonder what in the world you would ever "want", to do other than spend time together

Your love life will be woken up, and revived, as you see the entrapments of complacency, being torn down.

Follow the program as well as you have the guidance from these posters, and you will succeed.

Prepare for the adventure of a lifetime, that your marrige has promised, and hold onto your hat

(scriptural reference)"How can two walk together, less they be agreed?"

Your babies are not going to die if they are not kept clean for one day. AND, they will just sleep better when they get home....MORE UA time for you guys.

I understand wanting the best for you children but unless they are abusive or mental, they raised him so they can handle it for alittle while.

Ditto!

I felt so weird setting that weekend up becuase we always had to "have something to do" on vacation. I never thought we could actually entertain each other for that long.

Now I KNOW BETTER.

Ok. Ill do it!

After FR he bought me a Disney world trip (I'm a Disney freak) and that was really nice.

I'd love 2 weeks seclusion but for now I'll take tonight.

It'd be so much easier to sound time together without kids.oh well! I'll make it work somehow.

Bravo!

Great idea! Don't worry about a little honest dirt and a little missed sleep. That's not going to hurt the kids.

It's good for kids to get a little dirty sometimes!

The Samsung Facinate HAS A REAL GPS RECEIVER! The problem is that it uses a lot of power. Plus in the privacy & location settings on an android phone, these can be set to keep private, this is why I told confused not to get too upset over the location reports she is getting from the spyware program. It will give a position accutate with a few meters, if it has a clear view of sats. Otherwise the Samsung Facinste will calculate it's locstion by triangulating cell tower signals, which CAN be as far off as 3.5 kilometers.

Ok. His battery life already sucks but I checked gps was on. I'll just play it by ear

No sweat. Most android phones have poor battery life. If he's already accustom to it, he won't notice it. Just don't get too upset with the location reports, as I already stated yhe Facinate had GPS issues when it first came out.

Keep up the good work.

I just had a light-bulb moment: if he was planning on making taquitos for dinner, he probably isn't sick but is beginning withdrawal.

The wine bar and dinner sounds like a perfectly lovely memory and antidote to withdrawal.

Hence the confusion, lol. Some do. some don't, some use triangulation as a backup.

I would just hate to depend on cell towers as a GPS for a cruise missle. The guidance systems on nuclear warheads though, they used to read the stars after they entered space.

On my Iphone3, there is an "App for that",program for GPS, and because my son is a saleman/manager for AT&T, I asked what was up with the inacuracy. He said they call it GPS, but it is really cell tower traingulation.

Wish they would differentiate the two, to me it is false advertising.

But I liken it to "four wheel drive" on cars. The customer knows the end product, and they don't have to be an engineer and build the car to drive one, and the strength and versatility of the four wheel drive on thier vehicle, probably will never be known by them.

Same goes for most technology we take for granted.

Yea he just said he didn't want to go out to crowds...I asked about dinner he said "that sounds really good actually"

Gentlemen, I am totally impressed with your knowledge of cell phone technology. But I would like to suggest that you get this info over to the Operation Investigate forum. It would be very valuable on a cell phone thread.

Ok, but I am no expert, but I can take a hint.

:::snicker:::

Yeah thats the point, its not an exact science, but it will help in the future anyways.

all the snooping gadgets help, but your judgement will come in play too.

Your doing well, keep up the good work

Thanks.

Something keeps coming up on his computer programs..."smartmen" key strokes typed are "bbbbb" ....any thoughts?

My judgment got me into this mess. I don't trust my own judgement

I Google searched "smartmen.exe", it came back with a suggestion of smartmenu. SmartMenu is an HP program.

Not knowing the program, I can't explain the key strokes. At this point I would treat it as a nuscience (sp?) until you have more data.

Phew...

Where are you seeing this, confused?

Did you instruct his antivirus program to ignore the keylogger? You may need to re-install the program.

I was afraid you would say that when I posted it...

Your judgement to follow the advice given, based on how you KNOW the affair and decietfulness was not right, and that you had to take action, is sound judgement.

The rest will be in the books, and in time, as you follow the concepts.

You are doing very well

The smartmen thing is on "programs used". The bbb is the keystrokes used on that program.

Everything else seems normal. I'm getting what he or I type in ok (I used it to pay bills, fb etc. I doubt I'll get anything off the computer unless he goes on a work trip...which isn't happening)

The computer would be easy to reinstall though. The phone not as much

Thank you for the constant advice and reassurance. I do
Feel much more in control this time

Our flawed judgement is what caused a LOT of us to end here, confused. But you know a lot of new things now. You're doing great!

108 posts since I went to bed last night. It will take me a while to catch up.

You are continuing to do very well, keep it up!

That's what you get for going to bed.

I'm touched that your catching up <3

Update:no unordinary computer or phone activity. In fact he's told me everything before I even check the history. "oh I talked to chris" or "oh I went to ...website to look up..."

I got a really nasty fb message from one of her friends calling me a whore that I'm compromising my values and sleeping w a liar etc...which is hurtful but by that premise makes her friend a whore also. She said alot about how I obviously don't know how to be a wife and alot of other mean stuff. And "next time this happens, which it will, keep your feelings to yourself"

*sigh* I knew this would happen but it's still hurtful. I don't care what her friends think of me but Im afraid other ppl will think I'm weak or stupid.

Dinner was great. We way overspent the giftcard...which sucks because I don't know what our financial situation will be. Everytime I think about his job (we have a meeting w them tomorrow) I feel ill. We just got on track financially and now what. I'm sick just talking about it. I
Keep starting to second guess that asking him to leave was the wrong thing...I know it's right for my marriage it's just terrifying. He's not sure he'll be able to find that salary somewhere else, esp in this job market.

He keeps telling me don't worry in a soft voice...it'll all be ok. We will be fine and stop worrying about his job. He wants to apply for the police dept which terrifies me. I don't want to be married to a cop...ugh. I feel sick.

We did have sex last night so I guess that's good. I have to try really hard not to talk about her or the affair or his work..it's so hard. I cried after sex which is pathetic. Ugh.

We are going for a run now and then home to go to bkfst and the store and pick up kids.

Ignore these silly cows. They aren't worth the time it took me to type this sentence. (And I'm a fast typist )

This may turn out well for you. I thought he was going to transfer and be in a place where he would have no contact with OW? If his employers are willing to meet with both of you, it sounds like they will be willing to work with the two of you in order to keep him on the payroll.

And confused? When you go there, dress well, look good, and be business-like. Don't get emotional and cry! Pinch yourself to keep from it if you need to. Crying is considered weakness in the business world. You are there to negotiate the best scenario for your marriage. Stiffen your spine and kick butt! (In a business-like way, of course. )

confused, don't second guess this for ONE SECOND, because it is the right decision. You won't remember a temporary reduced salary in a year but you will remember the inevitable divorce from his continued affair. It is not a choice between this salary and a reduced salary but a choice between a DIVORCE a reduced salary. Take your pick! You CAN sustain some temporary financial issues; you can't sustain one more day of him working with the OW.


He shouldn't be making any such decisions without your enthusiastic agreement. If you don't want him to be a cop then tell him you don't agree. That would make you unhappy.Tell him you want him to find a job that makes you both happy and one that protects the marriage. And I would not agree for him to be a cop if I were you. It is to easy for them to cheat because of the crazy work schedules. That would be too hard on your marriage at a time when you need to be putting this back together.