Actually, yes it is.

This is where I will disagree with you in the extreme.

Your children will NEVER feel "neutral" about any of this. They will still be very much attached to both parents. And this is exactly why you must never, ever give them a false picture of how things are.

Of course they want to see both parents at events. No doubt they'd like to see both parents married and living together, too. But that's not how it is.

If both parents can go to kid's events and not interact with each other at all - well, maybe. But the last thing you should give your children is the false image of their divorced parents "being civil for the children."

Why not? Well, two reasons:

1) No matter what you say, your interacting nicely with your WXW at family events WILL give your kids the hope that you will get back together. So what if you're married to someone else now? You got divorced from their own mother, didn't you? People get divorced all the time.

2) Even if you can convince the kids that there is zero hope of your ever getting back together, you are still sending them the message that part-time families are okay and that's it's perfectly okay to move between families anytime you want on an hour-by-hour, day-to-day basis. You can drop in on one for the some nice family time, and then you can simply go back to another one for some nice family time there, too. This is an absolutely terrible message to send to your children. Families are FULL TIME or not at all, and if they are not then you can look forward to seeing your own children model this behaviour with their own future families because that's exactly what they saw you do.

I don't think you are getting us here. Obviously, your WXW is complaining and wants your approval so she can feel good about what she's done (you know, nuke her own family.) The question remains: Why are you hearing one word of her complaining in the first place?

Your response should be:

Nothing whatsoever.

This is what I do not understand. By interacting with her like this, you are only feeding the drama and giving her exactly what she wants: Your Attention.

You are only making things far, far, far worse FOR YOUR CHILDREN by continuing to interact with your WXW like this. Call it Plan B, call it Plan No Contact, call it Plan Ham Sandwich, call it whatever you like - but until you Stop Interacting with WXW, you are only making things far worse and even jeopardizing your current marriage.

I mean, if I had a husband, it would sure as hell bother me if he was writing lengthy e-mails trying to "reason with" the ex-wife who keeps trying and trying and trying to get attention and approval from him.

On a serious note, I am so glad you weighed in, Mulan. Was hoping you would...

Mulan,

Don�t know if you caught the rest of my thread.

My wife, and my mom, have both had to prod me into responding to defend myself. They felt a response was called for after the last incident, if anything, to document what occurred and to defend myself against baseless attacks.

I was reluctant at first, but went ahead and wrote a response.

As far as responding to her epic rant: I didn�t respond. I shared what my DW felt about responding.

This is a dead issue for both of us.

As far as what I tell my kids: I�ve been very up front. I�ve told them I didn�t want a divorce. I told them that marriage is a promise made between a man and a woman and God. I have been very open that mommy didn�t want to be married anymore and she split up the family.

I�m not sugarcoating anything for them.

But I�m also not hanging out with the ex as if we�re great friends. Quite the opposite. I�m fairly stoic around her and don�t say much of anything, even when she tries to argue with me.

We don�t talk at all outside of discussions regarding the kids medical needs and scheduling issues. That�s it. Unless, of course, she wants to rant about something irrelevant.

And I did walk out when she and her boyfriend tried to continue their conversation.

The WXW had a very odd request for me yesterday. Her grandmother is dying. She wants her and I to meet alone without my DW and without her BF, to break the news to the kids. She says we need to set our differences aside in order to be there for my DD.

I pointed out that we should tell all 3 kids, not just DD and that I didn�t understand why DW and BF couldn�t be a part of this.

This is on the heels of a session about DS where she went on a long ramble about how I show the kids movies she feels are inappropriate and how my DW should restrict and interfere with what I show the kids.

On top of all of this is the issue with the daycare where she now insists that I come to her house to get the kids.

My DW pointed out, along with some others, that having me there isn�t really about DD, but about comforting WXW.

What I know is that if the situation were reversed that I wouldn�t even think about involving WXW in telling my kids nor would I ask that she come while we excluded my DW and her BF. I also know that if the situation with daycare was reversed that I�d pay for the Friday drop ins in order to not have to interact with her at all.

Anyone here make any sense of this behavior? Can someone really be so narcissistic that she can�t imagine that others would be uncomfortable around her?

Told the WXW in a diplomatic way that she needs to handle this on her end with her family and I'll support the kids on my end.

She surprisingly didn't write me back telling me I was an insensitive a$$ or anything else.

I just got this from the WXW. Any suggestions on response? My gut says to say nothing.

Quick background: I was showing the kids pics and videos from when they were babies. They were having a blast and it somehow came out somewhere that Mommie and I were once married, which was surprise news to my boys. This naturally led to the question of why we weren't anymore and I told them the truth. "Mommy didn't want to be married anymore and wanted a divorce." Which naturally led to another questions, "And you didn't want one?" Which was "no". I then explained that marriage is a promise made between a man and woman and God.

As far as movies go, I just found out she had them watch certain PG-13 movies (while making a huge fuss over the few I've shown them).

I'm looking for suggestions on a response, if any.

Here's her message:

I don't want to start an argument here, but I do need to ask you about this. I just need to know how this came about and what exactly was said. Two things...why do the kids say the divorce is my fault? Also, why have they been encouraged to keep things from me (for example, like if they watch kung pao again just don't tell me) and say that if they do share the things they aren't supposed to that "daddy will get in trouble with mommy?"

I'm trying to handle this between you and I without the big arguments, so please refrain from making nasty or smart comments back about this. I've been told some things and I figured it's best to approach you about it to see what's going on and what was said.




Here is my draft response:

I won't get into an argument about this either.

The boys were surprised to learn that we were once married. They have all asked why we aren't married anymore. I told them the truth. I told them you didn't want to be married anymore and you wanted a divorce and pursued one.

As far as the other thing goes, *edit* have asked to watch it again and I've told them no and that you think it's inappropriate for them to watch and that you weren't happy they watched it. This isn't something discussed recently, so I don't know why it's coming up.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about movies with you anymore.
The bottom line on that issue is that I will use my judgment and you use yours.

I recently learned that the kids have seen Real Steel and Transformers:Revenge of the Fallen, which are both PG-13 movies. Personally, I don't care other than the criticism that has come from you regarding the kids seeing movies that you feel are inappropriate.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I would tweak it a tad:

This is me, beating the PB dead horse, AGAIN.

I would respond with,
Honestly, this back and forth between the 2 of you helps NO ONE. Plan B is called for, for sure.

Thanks. Good info and suggestions. Scotland, I will go with your response.

I agree with you on Plan B, at least as far as minimizing contact. It's why I posted here first.

She's been the one initiating it lately and I've been very short and to the point on my responses.

I'm never getting burned again. I tried to playing nice, coparenting, isn't it great how we all get along route and I got burned. No more.

From now on it's all business and I'm assuming nothing but the worst from her on everything.

She really crapped on any degree of cooperation we had. Surprisingly, she is surprised by my sudden silence and shortness on everything and can't see the damage she did with her little incident a month ago.

I'm done. No more fake niceness on my end. Cold shoulder from here on out unless I actually have to talk about something.

Good to hear. You're doing the best for yourself and your children.

I was using my IMing skills to only pass on what needed to be said from your letter. Trying to be unemotional as possible.

I really do like the idea of waiting at least 24 hours before responding. I know that I have found my response to anything much more different after having some time to think.

Glad I could help.

Are you in plan B then why are you reading the emails she is sending you?

You're breaking NC. What movies the kids are watching while with you are not an emergency. This is why you are to use an IM.

Why are you lying to your kids?

Yes lying!

Your WW had an affair. Age appropriate tell them mom had a boyfriend when still married to you. It's wrong for husbands/ wives to have girlfriends/boyfriends and go out on dates when they are married. This type of dating is known as having an affair. Your mom had and affair while married to me. Mom left the marriage and divorced me to be with the OM (and use the OM's real name).

Then add that all dating is not bad. Dating between single people, people not married is good dating.

There is no need for you to respond to her question as to what you have told the kids already. She is fishing to do damage control. Stay dark.

Tell the kids the truth. Don't discourage or encourage the kids to tell their mom that they know about the affair and the OM.

When and if she does hear from the kids, just stay dark when WW tries to break plan B NC.

TR,

Thought I responded to this, but it apparently didn�t post. There is no Plan B. There is no OM. There were multiple OM and none of them are a part of her life right now.

We�ve been divorced for almost 5 years now. So NC isn�t an issue and Plan B doesn�t apply. I have no love bank to preserve. I have no affair to try and expedite the end to. I have no desire to ever be with WXW again and I�m happily remarried.

But minimal contact is necessary for a few things: medical issues with the kids, school discipline issues, scheduling issues for visitation and holidays.

Outside of that, my guidance on contact with her is based on what a parenting coordinator said to me. She stated that unless there was blood on the ground and someone about to die, then any contact about any issue could be handled via email. I�ve generally followed that rule. As time went on, however, my friendly nature took over and I became more amicable with the WXW when around the kids. We never crossed into the line of friends. Things simply remained amicable.

That all ended about a month ago and I think it has been killed forever. I won�t fake it anymore. I don�t like her and don�t have to pretend to like her. I don�t have to defend myself about anything.

Her repeated confrontations at the kid�s karate classes have worn thin and I will no longer tolerate them. My response from now on will be complete silence, if I actually stay in the classes.

Plan B doesn�t exist in my situation. She�s like an annoying workmate I have to interact with for a project, but I don�t have to go beyond that.

My mistake was in letting my guard down. Indifference crossed into the realm of amicability, which was a mistake. My WXW still feels she has a right to opine on things about my life and the fact is that she doesn�t and simply hasn�t been told or accepted it.

Well, I will no longer tolerate it. I was at the other extreme of things based on advice I had been given about not escalating conflict and engaging in arguments. Well, it�s true, that I shouldn�t engage in conflicts, but my IC made it clear to me that I have every right to lay out boundaries and stop things when the line is being crossed. So that has been fairly empowering.

My DD9 had a concert at school last night. We headed out to go to it, got good seats in a very crowded room and got to see the concert.

My wife told me when we got there that the WXW would likely grab DD9 as soon as the concert ended and would bolt out of the school.

I came in, saw DD9, took pictures and video from a distance. I know she saw me.

It happened as predicted. The kids ended their songs and sat in the back. As soon as the rest of the show ended, WXW grabbed DD9 and the twins and bolted off.

I tried to make my way out to catch up and they were gone by the time I got outside.

My sis and wife caught up with me and could see my disappointment. I wanted to give her a hug, tell her she did a great job, and take some more pictures. Her friend and his mom came out and wanted to take pictures of DD9 and her friend together. I think they could see my disappointment on my face. I told them that WXW and the kids went home.

I have to admit that even though I expected her to do this that it stung.

I called WXW and left a message saying that I�d like for DD9 to call since I wanted to tell her she did a good job. I also let her know that what she did was pretty crappy and that she�d be livid if the roles were reversed.

She texted me with some sorry excuses, saying that it wasn�t about me and that they left because they needed to get dinner and do homework.

I responded that I was told she would do what she did and that I made the mistake of giving her the benefit of the doubt.

The sad thing is that she�s so self centered and narcissistic that I really don�t think it registered in her brain at any time that I might want to see DD after it was all over to say something.

My sis and wife were angrier than I was. I told them that this is no surprise and was expected. I emphasized that he who angers you controls you and DD9 knows I was there. I got a chance to talk to her on the phone and told her I send a hug through the phone and a congratulations.

That, in the end, is the most important thing. DD9 will remember I was there and that is truly all that matters.

I think she�ll start to notice either the insensitivity of my WXW or that my WXW purposely does such things.

It still hurt, despite being expected. Par for the course.

HTLD,

I've never posted to you before, but I do read along. After reading this, I thought I'd try to lend some support, even though I know it probably won't help much now.

My XW and I divorced when my oldest son was 1. She was cheating with an old BF. They married 2 months after our divorce was final. Actually moved 1000 miles from me 2 days after the divorce. That was all a long time ago. My X has had 3 affairs that I know of, since then. And yup, she's still married to that same guy she cheated with on me.

3 years later they moved back and my son was calling someone else "Dad". Thru the years my X pulled all kinds of crap like what you just experienced. I never said an ill word about her to my son. I never let my mom say an ill word about my X, even though she wanted to. I figured, eventually, my son will figure it out. I just continued to be the best dad I could be, just like you're doing.

Fast forward to today. My son has moved 3 states away. My W and I were planning on visiting him for a long Labor Day weekend. A couple days before we were to leave, my middle son's (first with current W) car blew up so with the expense of a new car and my middle son not having transportation, we reluctantly postponed our trip. I called my oldest and told him the bad news and he said "that's ok, I'll come home instead".

Hang with me, there's a point here.

He came home late the Thurs before Labor Day. Stayed with us until Sunday when he left to go see his grandmother (my mom) and my brother and his cousins at my mom's weekly Sunday Brunch. My mom lives pretty close to my X while I live about 3 hours away. I rode along with him as I was going to borrow my mom's car for a week or so until I could buy a used car to replace my middle son's that blew up. We spent a nice afternoon with my family and when my son was getting ready to leave, he said to me, "I need gas, but I think I'll wait to get it until I get an hour or so towards home. I'd hate it if my mom or brother saw me at the gas station and then I'd have to make up some excuse why I didn't go see them when I was home."

I know this was long, but the point is, my son gets it. He talks in not so glowing terms about his mom and step dad virtually every time he's home. He honestly thinks his mom is unstable (and I don't think he's too far off). He's far closer to my side of the family, even though she used to bad mouth me to him, complain about the CS I paid not being enough, blah, blah, blah. And he lived his whole life listening to that.

I know it ticks you off. I know it hurts. I can remember many times crying after dropping him off after my weekend. But now, he's MY SON, even though she tried her best to make sure I was painted as a demon.

He figured it out on his own, just as I suspect your child(ren) will also.

H4U

Thanks. I appreciate that very much. It's what I keep telling myself.

The kids will figure things out on their own. I only hope that they can see through her manipulation in the future, because she is the Yoda of manipulation.

Has anyone ever had a WXW seek constant approval from the BXH?

Here's what happened:

Kids came to my home after spring break. They didn't have their backpacks. DD9 started to worry, in an overly exaggerated child manner, that she would get in trouble for not having her stuff for school.

So she grabbed my phone without me knowing and started trying to call the WXW. She called her several times, left messages, and texted.

I found out she was doing this, sent a message to WXW about what DD9 had done, and simply asked if she would be stopping by with the kids' stuff.

WXW texts back that she is coming and wanted to talk to me.

DS7 is on new meds, so I figured it could be about that, but I prepared for the worst.

She showed up, gave the kids their stuff, and then asked to talk to me. I go onto the porch, kids go inside, and she basically says the following, which she wrote in an email, but it is a basic repeat of what she said on the porch:

"Regarding coming by your house last night, I think a lot of what I was trying to say got confused. I�ve been meaning to discuss with you about it and hadn�t had the chance until last night. I feel like quite often that if things don�t work out somehow (like meeting up the day of the race or a few other incidents in the past) that you get upset with me, call me rude, or say things like I don�t think of others and only myself.

It seems like a lot of the time you view my actions as intentional or not considering anyone else and it frustrates me. Like on the race day, we had gone into the mall that day before hearing anything from you about heading back or toward my home. Any text you sent after the race wasn�t seen since I had no signal in the stores. Yes, you had sent a message saying you were heading my way, but u never received anything back confirming I was there or even got your message. (I had even mentioned to you previously that we�d probably be out that day since nothing was definite on time.) When we got out of the stores, I received all of your texts and responded immediately. I also got everything together and headed back to meet you as quickly as possible. It was the best I could do on time. You then made comments about it regarding it being rude and expected, like I had done something wrong when it was simply a matter of miscommunication.

I also really get upset when anytime I try to talk to you about these issues regarding having the kids on your time, you immediately start making comments that suggest I consider it a favor I�m doing for you, that the kids are somehow a burden to have more time, that I don�t want them the extra time, etc�.anything along those lines where you start saying that I should consider it a privilege to have the extra time or that not to worry, you won�t ask me anymore. You immediately jump to saying these things the moment I try to discuss these issues with you and it�s not fair�and I�m sure even you know, VERY far from the truth and the point I was trying to make last night. I wasn�t complaining about having them or comparing how much you ask me to watch them versus how much I ask you�that was totally not the point. My point was that I do try to make the effort to be helpful as much as possible concerning the kids, whether it�s watching them for you, taking them to karate, picking them up from your house to take them to practice, whatever is needed. I do this because it�s for the kids and because I enjoy having them around, but regardless, it�s still nice to hear a �thank you� sometimes because it does have the side benefit of helping you too when I bring things by so you don�t have to drive over or when I take them to things. It is just something nice to hear when you are helping someone out (which I do feel like I try to do). It�s not to thank me for having the kids with me, I don�t need thanks for that. It�s just saying thank you for helping you out as well (so you don�t need to drive, you can handle something you need to do without the kids, etc), that�s all. I hear a lot of the negative comments from you at these times when it doesn�t work out exactly as expected, but never anything positive. I was trying to tell you last night that I don�t want it to keep being that way and there really isn�t a need for it to be that way with these times in the first place."

So that captures the basic ramble. I didn't say much after she got done rambling. I explained the situation with DD9 using the phone without my knowledge and that I wasn't mad about anything or upset at her for not responding sooner. I then asked about DS7's meds.

I then got the above email at work.

I debated whether or not to answer. Seems pointless to try and educate a WXW and it also seems weird that she is seeking any approval from me. I could care less what she thinks of me or if she thinks I am good/bad/rude. I really don't care.

So after much debate and discussion with my DW, I sent the following:

Please understand there is no emotion in this response. The horse is dead and you can continue to beat it if you wish, I really don�t care.

Regarding karate on Fridays: I do that because it is best for the kids and it is in the spirit of our order, which states that you are to bring the kids to me by 7PM on Fridays if I request it. It�s become a pattern to meet at karate and it seems to be the easiest transition for the kids to make at a mutually agreed to location. I�ve never seen Friday arrangements as �helping me out.�

If I could, I�d pick them up from daycare and not see you at all, but that isn�t an option anymore since you changed things without informing me.

All calculations I make are based entirely on what is best for the kids and you�re not a part of the calculation. Having DD9 stay with you on Friday let her sleep a little more than at my house and permitted me to take the boys to swimming. Once that all added up in my head, the decision was made and I simply asked if you�d be willing to do it. If not, then I would have taken her the next morning as necessary.

Requesting that you watch them on the night before my race was done for them, not for me. I wanted them to attend their swimming class and not have to miss it for an event for me.

I figured you�d appreciate the extra time and the kids would get to sleep and go to their class. I could have just as easily had the neighbors watch them, but they�d miss their class in that scenario. I never viewed it as a favor.

Tardiness on your end or absence of consideration is expected whenever I interact with you. If you give me a time when you say you�ll be at something, I add about 20 minutes to it and am no longer upset or surprised when it happens. It�s simply a given. I�ll read a book or surf the web while I wait.

I use to get upset about it, now I just tell people to expect it. The Monday you picked the kids up from my place is a good example. I told Sister that you said that you�d be by between 7:30-7:45. As a responsible person, I instructed her to have them ready for that time, but to expect you to arrive after 8 since that seems to be the norm.

Happened as predicted. If Sister hadn�t been there I�d have been incredibly late for work, which I�m sure never crossed your mind.

I predicted to my sister and to DW that you would run out of the Christmas play as quickly as you could and the concept that I might want to say something to DD9 wouldn�t cross your mind. Happened as predicted. I expected it and it still hurt to not be able to see DD9, but it happened as I said it would. There was no surprise.

Your response, as with every single instance, is to make excuses, say that I should be understanding, and explain that none of it was done on purpose.

I�ve come to understand over the years that you truly are oblivious to your complete lack of ability to feel any sort of empathy or consideration for others. It�s simply who you are. The little girl that got every single wish granted and had everyone around her cater to her needs never grew out of that.

It is your world and we all simply live in it. It�s how you see the world and how you treat everyone around you.

I guess I�m incapable of saying �thank you� anymore than you�re capable of saying �I�m sorry.�



She sent another rant after this message, but I think I'm just going to stay quiet. I'm a little baffled that she is seeking thanks from me or any kind of approval. It really confuses her that I'm all business with her and am not remotely warm when around her at kid events.

Is this just the norm?

Just for the record, Plan B isn't in the picture. I have no desire to protect any feelings, they're long dead. I interact by the court ordered minimum and outside of the doctor and kid events, I really don't communicate with her in any way. 90% of communications are logistics related. "I'll be at x spot at such and such time."

The other 10% are medically related: "How has DS7 done on the meds at school this week? Do we need to see pediatrician about them again? Have you noticed x kind of behavior?"

That's about it. All business. Why she wants to go beyond that is weird to me.

On a very positive note:

My DW is expecting. The baby is her first, my fourth. We're very happy about it.

Told the kids this weekend and they were excited. It sucks that they will all be part time siblings with their new sibling, but we'll make the best of it.

Any suggestions from those out there in similar situations? (kids from previous marriage/bio kids from new marriage)

Congrats on the baby and at least they will be brother's and sisters with their new sibling.

Have you ever thought about parallel parenting? I do it with my xwh and it's wonderful. No drama, no drawn out emails.

Just a thought. Parallel Parenting