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CanItGet, that might be just a little bit explicit for this board!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
I can't, and I shouldn't have to solve all of the problems on my own.

That may be so, but if you want them solved, you may have to do more than your fair share.

Because of the way men and women are differently wired, it is often men that have to do the pursuing.

When your wife gets to the point where you have made enough love unit deposits in your account in her love bank, she will be in love with you. At that point, everything will change. Dr. Harley says he has men who wake up one morning and wonder what hormones their wife took, because suddenly everything changed when they got to the point where their wives are suddenly in love with them. It's not gradual, it's sudden, and without warning.

So I would focus on making those love bank deposits for her, on studying how to do that and how to get better at it. You may have a balance in your account in her love bank that is in the negative thousands. What deposits are you making?

Can you listen to these?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3324
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3325
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3326
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3327


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
CanItGet, that might be just a little bit explicit for this board!

Point taken. I went back to edit but found it already done


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Originally Posted by markos
So I would focus on making those love bank deposits for her, on studying how to do that and how to get better at it. You may have a balance in your account in her love bank that is in the negative thousands. What deposits are you making?

Can you listen to these?.....

I'll give them a listen next opportunity. Traveling and checking in with cell phone till Sun. Night So not easy till then.

I found the quoted portion of your post depressing. W seems to bar the door to the love bank when I attempt to make deposits. For example: when I took her out to supper yesterday, she took out her kindle to read.

I am afraid to communicate with W about her LB. If I complain about a DJ she doesn't see her words as anything unreasonable even though I know she would take offense if I said the same thing to her. So I just take it. Would it not cost me Love bank units to point out that she is hurting my feelings if she won't see it from my point of view?

So I should just roll with the punches because with that huge negative balane I can't afford to lose more by telling W when she is being unkind.



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Have you read the principle of radical honesty? She needs to know how you feel about her behavior.

I have heard it suggested that feedback about DJ be confined to one predefined time/week, so as not to intrude on your enjoyable ua time. She can give you feedback about your love busters at the same time.

However, if I was at dinner with my husband and he pulled out a kindle, I would say, "sweetie, I was hoping to spend this time enjoying conversation with my favorite guy! I feel distracted when you are using the kindle."


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Can, ask her not to use her kindle or her phone when you are out together. Its really that simple. My H gets very upset when I take calls or whip out an Ipad when I am with him.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
Originally Posted by markos
So I would focus on making those love bank deposits for her, on studying how to do that and how to get better at it. You may have a balance in your account in her love bank that is in the negative thousands. What deposits are you making?

Can you listen to these?.....

I'll give them a listen next opportunity. Traveling and checking in with cell phone till Sun. Night So not easy till then.

I found the quoted portion of your post depressing. W seems to bar the door to the love bank when I attempt to make deposits. For example: when I took her out to supper yesterday, she took out her kindle to read.

I am afraid to communicate with W about her LB. If I complain about a DJ she doesn't see her words as anything unreasonable even though I know she would take offense if I said the same thing to her. So I just take it. Would it not cost me Love bank units to point out that she is hurting my feelings if she won't see it from my point of view?

So I should just roll with the punches because with that huge negative balane I can't afford to lose more by telling W when she is being unkind.

You are going to have to prioritize the different problems in your marriage. Your wife is not likely to be motivated to change her behavior until you make more love bank deposits into her account.

Have you read all four sections here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3600_state.html
(Intimacy, Conflict, Withdrawal, How One Spouse Can Lead the Other Back to Intimacy)

Have you considered getting Dr. Harley on the phone for free and asking him about your situation?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

If the Love Bank appears to be closed, it is due to withdrawal. This is not permanent. She will give you the opportunity, if you are patiently waiting and ready. And the actions you are taking to deposit love bank units, will have an impact, even if it isn't visible yet. Usually the impact is not visible for a long time, not until you hit the romantic love threshold, and then you see a sudden (not gradual) change.

A typical woman's top two emotional needs are affection, and conversation, so I would focus attention here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html
(Try doing everything on that list every day, for three months.)
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html
(Practice using Dr. Harley's "friends" of good conversation and eliminating the enemies of good conversation.)

Do this. Turn yourself into the world's best conversationalist and most affectionate husband, and see what happens!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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I know this is good advice and I am actively working specific plans every day to better meet the needs W identified as most important.

I think my actions are mostly on the right track. My emotions are not following.

What I'm asking for here is help maintaining a hopeful attitude


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I wantto ask W to fill out the love busters form so that I can focus some effort on eliminating my unhelpful beavers. The problem is I am reluctant to fill out the form myself and share my answers with W.

I am prepared to regard every issue W identifies as valid and to alter my behavior to stop love busting. If I don't "get it" I will adjust my behavior anyways and perhaps POJA the issue when things are going better.

I don't anticipate W accepting my LB feedback as valid. I expect an aggressive and defensive response. If I communicate a complaintt it will cost me love units I cannot afford to withdraw.

In other words. I think I should learn about Ws complaints because I am prepared and committed to a constructive response. I think w needs to get to that place first before I can safely share my LB concerns.

I've known this woman for 40 years and think I am familiar with how she responds


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Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
I wantto ask W to fill out the love busters form so that I can focus some effort on eliminating my unhelpful beavers. The problem is I am reluctant to fill out the form myself and share my answers with W.

Okay, then how about for the first round, you just ask her to fill it out? You can tell her "I know that I have probably done some of these things to you. I would like your perspective on what I have done that has hurt you or caused problems for you, and how I can change."

We all change in life. Married people need to change for each other if they want their marriage to grow happier.

Frankly in many situations, the husband needs to go first and win his wife over. Particularly if that husband has been unfaithful in the past.

Look at your wife as if you were not married to her and wanted to date her. How would you behave to make yourself attractive to her, catch her interest, and get her interested in dating you full time?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
I know this is good advice and I am actively working specific plans every day to better meet the needs W identified as most important.

I think my actions are mostly on the right track. My emotions are not following.

What I'm asking for here is help maintaining a hopeful attitude

Realistically, here is how this works:

How One Spouse Can Lead the other Back to Intimacy

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Once they see each other's caring efforts, and rebuild their Love Bank accounts, they re-enter the Intimacy stage. But there's an irony that trips up some couples. Which spouse do you think is the first to move back into the state of Intimacy: the one who makes the first effort to meet the other's needs, or the recipient of that effort? You may have guessed it. The recipient of care is usually the first to return to the state of intimacy, and not the one who make the greatest effort to save the relationship.

If you set a good example by meeting your spouse's needs first, alas, that usually means that your own needs are met last. Your Taker is not pleased with this arrangement, and may try to sabotage it. You will need to make a deliberate and patient effort to override the Taker's instinct to retreat back to fighting and name-calling. But if you resist that instinct to argue, and instead focus attention on behaving thoughtfully and meeting your spouse's needs, your spouse will be encouraged to reciprocate.

Granted, when in the state of Conflict, it's much more difficult to be thoughtful and meet each other's emotional needs. That's because the Taker's advice dominates the Giver's advice, and the Taker isn't interested in thoughtfulness or meeting someone else's needs. So if you want to return to Intimacy, you must override this instinct with great effort. Meeting an emotional need in marriage is easy when you are in the state of Intimacy, because the Giver encourages you to do just that. But in the state of Confict, it seems very unnatural and even unfair.

When your Love Bank balances are finally restored, and your love for each other is triggered again, the struggle is over.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Thank you Markos.

I know I have been getting whiny. Called my neurologist today and asked for help with depression. Had blood drawn for lab work. I'll see what she recommends.

Tomorrow w has a family event three hour drive from work. I worked late today so I can leave work early to drve with W.


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Three hour drives are great UA time! Chat it up, and remember the friends of good conversation! (Be mindful of the enemies, as well.) You read that article, right?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by markos
Three hour drives are great UA time! Chat it up, and remember the friends of good conversation! (Be mindful of the enemies, as well.) You read that article, right?


That is why I offered to ride with W. We'll use part of the time to listen to HNHN or Love Busters using her Kindle. My strategy for dealing with her bringing along the Kindle has been to ask her to load some books we can share. It works better if she drives. When I drive, W tends to haul out personal reading or go to sleep. When she drives, she wants conversation to help pass the time. If sleepy, I'll lean back and close my eyes, but I'll stay in the conversation.

I almost always hold W's hand when we are in the car together. Also in restaurants except while we're eating. She seems to be very pleased when people around us notice the hand holding.

I don't really like spending time with her family, though I've learned not to say so (especially when she says so herself!) Her sisters are lovely warm people, her brothers are drinkers and disrespectful of women. W's father's standard reply to "How are you?" is "Hateful as ever." W has 6 brothers who've had 6 divorces. Both sisters are in good marriages.

W grew up in a household where family conversation consisted of verbal abuse disguised as humor. As an adolescent girl, she was mocked by her 6 brothers for her appearance. My parents would not have tolerated it. I try to remember that when I'm on the receiving end of DJ. She's worked at learning to keep her claws in and I'm getting what leaks through her filters, not the full force of what what she learned at the family dinner table.



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Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
That is why I offered to ride with W. We'll use part of the time to listen to HNHN or Love Busters using her Kindle. My strategy for dealing with her bringing along the Kindle has been to ask her to load some books we can share. It works better if she drives. When I drive, W tends to haul out personal reading or go to sleep. When she drives, she wants conversation to help pass the time. If sleepy, I'll lean back and close my eyes, but I'll stay in the conversation.

Get a good night's sleep, and be sure to drink plenty of coffee. Eye contact can be important in conversation, so if you can avoid having to close your eyes it may help. For your wife, the conversation is very likely about the connection she feels, rather than the content (which we men tend to focus on smile ), so this may be an important key to meeting her emotional need.

Quote
I almost always hold W's hand when we are in the car together. Also in restaurants except while we're eating. She seems to be very pleased when people around us notice the hand holding.

Okay, excellent! That sounds like another great way to deposit some love units.

Quote
I don't really like spending time with her family, though I've learned not to say so (especially when she says so herself!) Her sisters are lovely warm people, her brothers are drinkers and disrespectful of women. W's father's standard reply to "How are you?" is "Hateful as ever." W has 6 brothers who've had 6 divorces. Both sisters are in good marriages.

Hopefully down the road you guys can work out a solution to this that you are both enthusiastic about. But for now your number one problem to solve has got to be filling your account in her love bank.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Just wanted to repost this in case you missed it at the end of the last page break.

Eliminating any love busters on your part is going to be crucial. What love busters do you think she would say you commit? Can you try filling out the LBQ yourself, about you from her perspective? Do you think she would fill it out if you ask?

The big misconception I labored under for a long time here was the idea that I just had to make the love busters "better." Get the angry outbursts down to once a month and the selfish demands down to only one a day, right? Wrong! They've really got to be eliminated. You have to have a very high standard for yourself.

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by CanItGetBetter
I wantto ask W to fill out the love busters form so that I can focus some effort on eliminating my unhelpful beavers. The problem is I am reluctant to fill out the form myself and share my answers with W.

Okay, then how about for the first round, you just ask her to fill it out? You can tell her "I know that I have probably done some of these things to you. I would like your perspective on what I have done that has hurt you or caused problems for you, and how I can change."

We all change in life. Married people need to change for each other if they want their marriage to grow happier.

Frankly in many situations, the husband needs to go first and win his wife over. Particularly if that husband has been unfaithful in the past.

Look at your wife as if you were not married to her and wanted to date her. How would you behave to make yourself attractive to her, catch her interest, and get her interested in dating you full time?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by markos
Get a good night's sleep, and be sure to drink plenty of coffee. Eye contact can be important in conversation, so if you can avoid having to close your eyes it may help. For your wife, the conversation is very likely about the connection she feels, rather than the content (which we men tend to focus on smile ), so this may be an important key to meeting her emotional need.

Due to my damaged facial nerve, it becomes painful for me to keep my eyes open as the day goes on. Sometimes this is a challenge for me in a normal work day. W understands that the reason I close my eyes is the medical problem. When I make eye contact, what she sees is pain. I try to communicate my attentiveness through reflective listening and gestures such as squeezing her hand when she says something important to her.

Originally Posted by markos
Quote
I don't really like spending time with her family, though I've learned not to say so (especially when she says so herself!) Her sisters are lovely warm people, her brothers are drinkers and disrespectful of women. W's father's standard reply to "How are you?" is "Hateful as ever." W has 6 brothers who've had 6 divorces. Both sisters are in good marriages.

Hopefully down the road you guys can work out a solution to this that you are both enthusiastic about. But for now your number one problem to solve has got to be filling your account in her love bank.

Not really much to do about W's family. I'm always courteous with them and supportive about W's issues with them. I follow her lead on contact with her family. I encourage and enthusiastically join visits with her sisters who are very nice people that I like a lot.

Last edited by CanItGetBetter; 11/01/11 03:17 PM.

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Evening with the in-laws went smoothly. Lovely conversation on drive to the event. On the way home W wanted radio on in car, so I chatted about the music the channel was playing.

Kept my reluctance to pose with group photos to myself. Didn't cost me anything.

Quote from W on the way home. "I wasn't going to make you come along, but I'm glad you did."


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Good to hear you had some positive UA time! Good for both of you.


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Three days ago W enthusiastically initiated SF. Hurray!
She had a good experience, but ended the session without my having physical satisfaction. Even so, her enthusiasm was a balm to me.

The next day I expressed. A) We need to be a bit less spontaneous. I had taken my max prescribed pain killer dosage earlier (bad pain day). If we plan ahead, I can delay taking my pain meds and respond better physically. This is an easy problem to solve. B) About 70% of my focus was on not hurting W physically. It's hard to fully enjoy the experience when I'm holding myself back that much and worrying. This is a harder problem to solve than the first.

Now W has spent the past three nights in the guest bedroom. Says it is because of sleep issues. She doesn't seem to agree that sharing the bed is important for maintaining our emotional bond.


Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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