There is dissent and then there is dissent.

**edit**

Though I think I would of delivered the same fate to drifter.

One thing to rage about how a BS should divorce the WS and then it's another thing to site reasons why in a poster's case divorce is the way to go.

Not all marriage can be or should be saved. However I think you are doing the right thing to recover yours.

Old Mittens are you there still? Very painful past with you and me both, brother. I'm still dealing with a harsh EA from two years ago, and it was "only" an EA. We are moving forward, creaking along like the Mawflower crossing the ocean; leaks springing up here and there and stiff winds shifting things around on deck.

But when I read your post I am so sorry you have this great pain. From your wife's reaction, perhaps in all honesty she was in such a fog at the time of conception that it wasn't her true self acting at the time, but rather was a version of your wife that came out, evolved feom from her being unhealthy at that time - certainly her EN's not totally being met within the marriage. Truly it isn't your daughter's fault at all and she is lucky she has you as the father - the "real" father in every sense except some small DNA code. You are her real father and always will be.

If you can get your EN's met by your spouse, sounds like she's trying hard, and she can get hers met by you, and it sounds lie you are trying hard, then you are at least on the right track for now. I guess too that she has a Giver and a Taker and you may want to think ahead about her Giver and her Taker, making sure she's not the only one doing the Giving. No one wants to hear about our own contributions to the problem, but as betrayed spouses, we did have something to do with it. But it sounds like you are opening yourself to your wife, and trying ever harder to meet her EN's. She is also trying to meet yours. You will start to feel more empowered and in charge, and more in control if you re-double your efforts to think ahead and meet some of her EN's. You don't want her Giver to start tiring out and cause some kind of harsh Taker to pop out anfd rear it's ugly head.

Do you think that real love means possible vulnerability, and by opening ourselves to real Love you are also opening the door for potential hardships along the way?

I say all this to you so that I can say it to myself... I'm really only preaching to the choir.

L2L

I don't think anyone minds honest and open discussion. I think it's a problem when it wanders into uninformed comments that are contrary to the concepts of the owner of this site.

Marriage Builders isn't the wild, wild west where anything goes. The rules are on the front door. Anyone who doesn't take the time to read them will likely be edited when they post against those rules.

Pretty simple, really.

Sorry for the t/j, mitt.

You might not like it, mayday, but them's the rules of this forum. It has been set up and paid for Dr Harley, and he has the right to enforce any rule he likes. We are all guests here and we are here by his privilege. If you don't like that, there are other forums where any point of view goes.

If you have an issue with the way the board is managed, please familiarize yourself with our Terms of Service or send an email to the moderators. But don't disrupt threads complaining about our TOS, which is against our TOS. When you sign up to be a member on our board, you agreed to our TOS.

I've been having trouble with my oldest daughter pretty much ever since she found out about the affair. At first it was more just a distance thing, She would just not talk to me and pretty much ignored me. but since my wife left the hospital she has become more and more hostile And downright cruel to me. She will say things intentionally hurtful just to get under my skin and anger me I always stay calm but it's becoming very hard to deal with. This led to a big blowout this past Wednesday where both her and I said things that are very hard to come back from and now I'm worried that our relationship may be damaged beyond repair. I love my daughter always have always will but I just don't like her right now. I was hoping to get some advice on how to deal with this has anyone else had to deal with a child who knew about the affair and sided with the WS and if so how did you move past it.

Sorry to hear about that Oldmitt. How is the wife been acting during these incidents?

When my parents got divorced, my dad said alot of stupid crap to my sister, who was a teenager at the time. One of the things he attempted to do was turn her against my mother. It basically backfired, and scarred the relationship, even to this day.

You write about what your W is doing for reconciliation, so there is no way I'd believe that she is saying things behind your back. Perhaps it could be that your daughter sees it along these lines:

she views your W's hospitalization as strictly your fault and the way you handled things - even it overshadows your W's affair. So instead of being angry at mom (which she might be), this anger over seeing your W hospitalized (which by no means whatsoever is your fault, rather a breakdown because her secret was out)is trumping any anger she has for the affair.

Its a dicey situation with children, but I'd say particularly challenging with teen girls. As I said, my sister and dad still are rocky, and she is now 32 years old. For my sis and dad, they never really talked it out. Let it build and fester. It sucks and is hard, but the only thing that would have worked for them , and something for you to consider, once the dust settles, is to keep tryig to talk. Even if you don't get anywhere at first, keep the lines of communication open.

What happened to your dad and your sister is what I fear will happen to me and my oldest. That things will be said and done that can't be taken back and our relationship will become Strained and distant and I do not want that. As for my wife this is not been easy on her either my youngest,who I'm very close with has been bad mouthing her to basically anyone who will listen. She barely talks to her mother and when she does it's never anything nice she's always giving her a dirty look and keeps telling her that I'm going to leave her any day now. The only good thing to come out of any of this has been That my youngest daughter and I's relationship has become much closer.

Oldmitt,

What killed any attempt at communication between my sister and father was their refusal to be composed and calm when the hurtful words started flying. They both said things they couldnt take back, but neither of them stepped up first: to be the one to calm down.

An apology by one of them to he other could have opened a channel. Who knows. Years later, damage is still done. I hope that you are able to begin resolving things.

I've been having trouble with my oldest daughter pretty much ever since she found out about the affair. At first it was more just a distance thing, She would just not talk to me and pretty much ignored me. but since my wife left the hospital she has become more and more hostile And downright cruel to me. She will say things intentionally hurtful just to get under my skin and anger me I always stay calm but it's becoming very hard to deal with. This led to a big blowout this past Wednesday where both her and I said things that are very hard to come back from and now I'm worried that our relationship may be damaged beyond repair. I love my daughter always have always will but I just don't like her right now. I was hoping to get some advice on how to deal with this has anyone else had to deal with a child who knew about the affair and sided with the WS and if so how did you move past it.

I am really scratching my head here. You allow your minor child to back talk you?

Is this a minor child?

Kids will often use projection when they don't feel safe telling the real source.

Her world was annihilated by your WW. Your very impressionable daughter now has one sourse for protection ... YOU!

Your daughter wants to know if she can hurt you as bad as mom has hurt her, will you still be around. She no longer feel safe by mom. Nope, mom has annihilated her world.

Your daughter is pushing her boundaries with you for many reasons.

1) Did dad hurt mom so bad that she cheated? If I hurt dad that bad what can I get away with and still have him love me? (You need to make sure absolutely Nothing - she is testing to see if you are safe )

2) If dad didn't cause mom's affair, then did I cause her to have an affair.

3) How far can I push boundaries with men to get what I need, let me test dad first. He seems to give mom things and she hurt him horrifically.


The key is to make sure you continue your safe and loving boundaries with her.

"Darling daughter I am your father and the words out of your mouth are not loving or kind. When you can speak to me loving and kindly then I will address you to talk about your issues. In the meantime - go sweep the garage and figure out how to speak to me in a respectful tone."

"Darling daughter, I understand your pain, and I want to reassure you nothing you do or say will change my devoted, committed love for you as your father. Under no circumstances are the hurtful words out of your mouth helpful. Please mop the kitchen until you can release your anger and then come speak to me respectfully. If you feel you cannot talk, then I also accept your frustrations in the form of a letter. I have work now, so if you want to discuss this then I can give you a two hour timeframe to either speak with me or write me a letter. I love you more than the world"

Mitt, I think you and your wife should set her down and let her know in no uncertain terms that she has to treat you with respect. Make it clear that you won't tolerate her disrespect as long as she lives under your roof. I don't view this as an issue with the affair but a issue with her disrespecting authority.

For real? You would say that to a teenager who had just back talked you and defied your authority?

Yes - and I would also make her mop the floor, take out the trash, and do something else she doesn't want to do. She is hurting for all sorts of reasons. I would put money on the fact she wants to test dads boundaries more than ever now. Mom did it so why can I?

What do you suggest?

I don't know what would work for his child, but I do know with my sons, all it took was an icy "I BEG YOUR PARDON?" I wouldn't dream of allowing a child to back talk me, because that just teaches them to disrespect authority when they get out of the house.

My suggestion would be to present a united front and establish a zero tolerance for disrespect for authority. And if it continues, then she starts losing privileges. That kind of disrespect warrants a firm approach, not a wimpy approach, IMO.

No, but I've had to deal with angry outbursts.

When you are angry, you are temporarily insane. Anything you are thinking of saying or doing will, by definition, be an insane idea. So do nothing.

Practice relaxing, every day. When you are able to relax, practice relaxing while thinking about things that upset you.

If you feel angry, shut up. Then, leave if you have to.

Let your daughter form her own opinions, even if they are wrong, okay?

hello there I have a question that's been on my mind a lot and I thought I should come here and get your advice. Ever since D-Day I've had this (I don't know what you'd call it) urge I guess to start over. Every day I feel more and more that coming home was a mistake and that reconciliation with my wife is not possible and were just wasting our time trying to fix it. it's not that she's not trying she has done everything you could ask and more it's just most days I feel apathetic at best and downright hate her at worst.I don't know what to do I feel this great sense of guilt at the thought of leaving And thus abandoning my family but at the same time I'm ashamed of myself for staying. I always said I would leave any woman who cheated on me let alone someone who would have an affair with my best friend for two years. I know most books say it takes 2 to 5 years to recover but I Don't know if I have it in me to hold out that long. Has anyone here had to deal with this and if so how did you get through it???