itistoughlove,

My WW does not believe she can ever love me again. She categorically dismisses this idea in her mind that we can fall in love again, so the first step is to open up in her mind that this is in fact possible.

My W said the same thing to me...and our counselor...and her aunt...and...whatever.

Now, she is amazed, thankful for the MB program for restoring that feeling.

I didn't discuss alot about it being possible, I simply followed the program to the best of my abilities.

Last night before bed, my W said: "thank you for being my husband and creating a great marriage that anyone would be a fool to walk away from..."

This program works.

Well, let me offer some slightly different advice here.
Some Plan A-ish advice.

Offer to give WW driving lessons.
Does she have a license? A learner's permit?

Anywho, it she can legally drive, you take her out for 15-20 minute lessons.
Why?
Love bank deposits, for one.
UA time for two.

What'cha'think?

But, under no circumstances do you buy her anything pricy while she is wayward.

Thanks helpfordad, you give me hope, which is something I find myself sometimes losing, though not losing as often as much as a month ago. My confidence is increasing now with S.H.'s input.

Step-by-step, and I will keep doing the best I can.

That's a good idea Pepperband, thanks for thiking outside of the box (my box anyway!).

My thinking also was to avoid a big purchase while she is wayward. Why reward her for this behavior? That does not make sense to me. I did tell her though that I would happily by her a car once we reconcile!

She just seems so set on the idea of leaving no matter what. I have to not think about that or I get depressed and lose hope. Instead I have to focus on keeping my changes going and the plan.

One more thing....and I hope this isn't TMI, but may give you some hope:

Last night, with the kids out of the house, W and I had some beautiful UA time -- specifically SF time -- together.

A text from her today:

"You are my life and I am glad we have deep intimacy -- you are special and you are my everything..I look forward to a beautiful date tonight with you, my prince xoxo"

This, after exposure...after divorce threats...after hearing OM and she had a 'connection'...after getting the "But, I'm not IN love with you speech..

It's possible...work the program.

blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda
waa waa waa waa

She's still there, right?

Thanks helpfordad for the encouragement, it is not TMI. I have been told by many that I am super patient and keep trying on something after they would have quit long before. I have to lean on that trait now.

Pepperband,

Of course you're right, she's still here.

I need a better way to respond to these threats of her leaving with the kids to her mom's (in another city). She can't afford any place of her own w/o my support, so her only "threat" is to run with the kids to her mom's. Calmly state that the kids will not leave this house w/o my agreement? Over and over again? Being firm and consistent in a calm and low-key but strong way seems to work well with her to get her to calm down and back off.

Yesterday she played a trick on me to "test" me. I am on a business trip for 2 nights and wrote her by skype to set-up kid time that night. She said don't bother, we're leaving to my mom's. She said this because she got pissed at me before I left and she was trying to get back at me (she admitted this later). I got angry and called her, called her a liar because she promised she would not do this without my agreement, she said it was a joke and "test" to see if I qould threaten her. I called that cruel and she later apologized and said she was just angry and she was wonrg, I do not deserve her, she is a bad person, blah blah blah.

Let her know that if she does that you will file an emergency order to have the kids returned to the marital home.

Let her know you aren't fooling around. Bluff and say you've already talked to a lawyer about it based on her threats.

Be calm and very clear that you won't tolerate any such move or take it lying down.

The kids stay in their home.

Go out and get a book called Father's Rights.

WW's huff and puff and bluff a lot. It's on you to clarify that no such thing will be tolerated.

I would consult a lawyer if I were you and have them on standby if necessary because you wil have to file such a motion if she tries that. It is one of the most common dirty tricks that women pull on men and men lose because they don't kick it in the butt early enough.

The men who win custody are the ones who fight it legally.

The ones who lose are the ones who basically let their wives do such things without a fight.

Take it from someone who allowed such a thing to happen at first. I waited too long to fight it and it was way too late at that point.

I would say, "If you do any such thing I will file an emergency order to have the kids returned to the house. I will file for sole physical and legal custody and request an order that forbids the kids to be taken out of the state. What would you like for dinner? Want to go to a movie?"

Be James Bond. Be cool. Be calm. Calmness and showing you're sure of yourself will take you a long way with a WW.

Thanks helpthelostdads. I have bluffed this the times she has tried this, she blows up, but then backs down. I will hang tough. It is a narrow road and sometimes hard to keep my cool when she threatens this because it is always in response to some other incident/issue that has increased the tension, often involving me setting boundries with her criticizing me in front of the kids, her own AO aout somehthing, or trying to take control of the situation when the kids act out. I have begun standing up to her in these situations and not withdrawing. She gets pissed. I have to maintain my detachment. When I don't, these things quickly spiral.

Ok, back home tomorrow. Goal: persuade to talk with S.H.

Keep me in your prayers.

Wow, it went exactly as he predicted. WW's first call is this week. I am unsure this will help, but I guess baby steps are what this is about right now. I feel like she is only trying to pacify me, but I guess to be expected.

On to other things, today while discussing this call she told me that she came to the "realization" she was in-love with this OM during her psychotherapy for depression in Spring. She said in therapy she "realized" that since their initial brief relationship in college that her whole life she had loved this guy and this was what was wrong with everything. She swears they did not have a PA during their meeting in August. Who knows, maybe yes maybe no, but regardless she was running to his city with our kids to live with fantasies that I would just bow out as friends, and probably that this guy would eventually leave his wife, but she vehemently denies this. I could not help but point out that this was the reason she was moving to this city, but she of course argued no, other friends there also, etc.

Man, the fog never ceases to amaze. It is like she is blotting out all of the drama, outbursts, and erratic behaviors from September and early October. Now she is calm and seems normal except for this threat to leave, no love, etc.

Dead OM's crap does not stink.
It's a problem.

She also requested that we not discuss the deceased OM ever again. Is this good or bad?

We also agreed not to hurt each other any more and she has become much nicer to me the last few days. She actially came up and hugged me yesterday for no reason. That makes living with her easier of course, and makes it easier for me to make LB deposits. But she is still in her words deadset that she needs us to seperate, find new loves, etc. and reiterated this ad nauseum today.

On my side, her job has dried up alot so her income has dropped to almost zero again now for a couple of weeks. She asked me yesterday what our ground rules were now for money and I said I will financially support her as my wife but not as not my wife. I have become very secretive with our finances, all cards gone, no cash in house. She basicalyl yesterday wanted to ask me for money but I said i would buy her myself what she needed. She gave up and left and said nevermind.

Question: did I committ a LB? Should I provide petty cash as before?

While she persists in the fog even if it is to a dead OM you are not obliged to give any monies to her. She is declining to commit to the marriage so decline to give her any cash.

Not with a WW who is talking separation.

Tell her you don't like the situation but that you don't trust her.

Also tell her whenever she brings up separation that she knows where the door is, but that the kids stay in the house. Any attempt otherwise will bring court documents and court orders if necessary.

Then ask her if she wants to bake cookies or make dinner together.

Stand your ground.

Thanks Xau, makes sense to me. I will stick with the tight purse strings then.

Pepperband, you are telling me. I did try to sort of use this today to break fog-ville, e.g. I am sorry your friend died because I am sorry for his WIFE and CHILD that they lost their husband/father. Probably no effect at all. Matyrdom is a tough nut to crack. I mean, what if they had an EA and my WW tried to get it to become more and he rejected my WW and then died? That seems almost like worst case. I cannot beat this martyrdom I am afraid.

Me: Let's look at bunk beds for the kids.
WW: Let's wait until after the New Year when we see what will happen.
Me: Why? I am not moving regardless.
WW: That is so unfair, will not be that way.
Me: Why would I move. Anyway, let's see again those bunk beds and look at a new office chair for you.