im still in recovery myself so i am still trying to get through what you are experiencing but here is my take on what ive had to deal with so far.

i have good days and bad days and then i have what i call self destructrive days, self destructive days are days that things just seem to overhelm me and i catch myself falling into old/bad habits it could have been a trigger or just me emotions getting the better of me for me i found that if i ask my wife to give me a half hour of alone time i go to the garage and grab my notebook and write out what i am feeling and why (if i know why) usually this helps bring me out of it because then i have an solid reference for what triggered me and how to avoid it in the future.

i cant stress enough about UA time do whatever is needed to get your 15-20 hours a week of UA time in.

patience nothing that is worth it and a loving fullfilling marriage is worth it comes easy it will take time for you to fall back in ROMANTIC love again there will be plenty of ups and downs so you have to be strong make sure you take care of yourself and UA time is a must in my opnion from what i am going through UA time will make or break a recovery.

Mitt, this is so normal for a BS it's not even funny. You gotta take it a day at a time... An hour at a time if needs be. You and your wife are going to have to work on building a ROMANTIC relationship. And you will have to do it when it hurts too.

Her 41 WW 2y A with FBF
A started 05/09
OC born 2/10
DNA test 15/08/11
DDs 14and16
DDay 02/07/11
DDay2 22/07/11
I agree to try to work on the marriage 26/09/11

You were betrayed by your wife. 1st.
You were betrayed by your friend. 2nd.
You were betrayed by your WW having unprotected SF and letting the OM knock her up. 3rd time betrayed.
You were allowed to believe the OC was yours. From 2/10 to 8/11. That's 1 1/2 years. 4th time.

So compared to many a BH you have to swallow a lot more betrayal. 4 times the amount.

Your DD was 7/11.
DNA test 8/11.
You decide to attempt recovery 9/11.

Your plate if full.

However plates can be cleaned.

Thing is affairs take two to five years to clean up. Your not two months into recovery. Three months to learning your child is an OC. Four months since dday.

Normal. Is what you are feeling. Rollercoaster ride of emotions. Part of the rollercoaster ride is at about 6 months after start of recovery the BS begins the anger phase. This is where the BS gets angry at the WS for having the affair. This phase lasts for about 6 months.

This rollercoaster is why people are advised to wait 6 months before they make major decisions.

Reasons to recover:
BS was happy/content, but can learn to have a better marriage post affair.
Family, intact and healthy better for the COM.

Reason to not R:
Can't get past what happened. This decision usually needs time to process what happened so a thought out response is needed instead of a knee jerk response.

And plates can be tossed.

Ole, that is a normal part of recovery and you can expect to feel this way for the first year. You won't always feel this way, I promise.

It takes 2-5 years to become recovered, not that those 2-5 years are all going to feel like this now. As others have said, it will get better. It has to.

I sometimes like to look at what your life would be like without using MB. Now THAT would SUCK.

Stick to it, and let the people here help you through it.

I'm trying so hard I just feel like such a loser for staying and feel bad for thinking that way. I keep telling myself that you're doing the right thing That everyone would be a lot happier if you just stick to it suck it up And save your marriage. It's just I feel so apathetic towards my wife I don't hate her and I'm pretty sure I still love her it's just I feel so empty when I'm with her. I don't laugh with her but then again I don't cry with her, I don't feel joyous when I'm with her but I also don't feel sorrow either, when we make love I don't feel a connection with her but at the same time it makes me feel a lot better when we do.I have been giving a lot of thought and if my feelings of apathy don't change by next year I will move back out it's not what I want but I can't keep living like this I feel empty all the time and I don't want to.

...if my feelings of apathy don't change by next year I will move back out it's not what I want but I can't keep living like this I feel empty all the time and I don't want to.

As a responsible adult, you do owe your children and your marriage the EFFORT to reconcile; you cannot be burdened with owing them the SUCCESS. That will either come to you or not. A lot of the elements that contribute to a successful recovery are going to be the responsibility of your FWW. I hope like HELL she knows that, and will do the work required.

Meanwhile, Mitt, make an effort not to concentrate on anything but today, each day.

Owe effort not success

Quote

As a responsible adult, you do owe your children and your marriage the EFFORT to reconcile;

Why? Given the circumstances in his marriage, I disagree. He has made this choice out of free will and is now, and probably will continue, to second guess himself. But he doesn't owe his wife anything at all, quite the opposite.

I would like to take the time to remind him the clock is still ticking on the process to protect himself from 18 years worth of forced child support payments.

OleMittens, has your wife made any effort at all to set your daughter straight about her attitude of blaming you?

As a responsible adult, you do owe your children and your marriage the EFFORT to reconcile - NG

Given the circumstances in his marriage, I disagree. - AJ

Really? You think that in terms of trying to find a short-of-dissolution solution Mitt owes NOTHING to

• his children who are innocent of transgression in this matter, but would by whatever study you'd care to name, be better served by being raised in a two-parent household
• his pre-affair wife, who at one time Mitt made vows to regarding sharing a life together until death

You can make the case (I don't, but you CAN) that an affair eradicates the second reason, but I see no elimination of Mitt's ownership of the first.

And taking your position, AJ, would mean that NO BS owes his marriage the attempt to reconcile? In response, I would point out the title of this site, and the subordinate title of this board, my friend.

As far as things go with my oldest thereabout the same she still blames me for her mother's hospitalization both me and my wife have tried to make her see that it's no one's fault and that were all just trying to get through a difficult situation. But it's hard my daughter has a lot of anger in her and I think she is scared that I'm going to leave and that my wife will end up back in the hospital or worse. Also my youngest has said on several occasions that if I were to leave she would want to come live with me and have nothing to do with her mother that more then anything else is why I feel I should stay. But at the same time I am torn because I agree with what americajin said about not owing my wife anything I'm really starting to believe that while I still love her It's not the kind of love you need for a marriage. so while I agree I have to stay and try to find a way to make this marriage work for my kids I do not believe I owe my wife anything and I don't believe we will get back to the way we Were. But that we can get to a place where we both can tolerate the situation( at least until both our daughters are out of the home)then in a few years once things calm down and go our separate ways.

I don�t think that a BS is obligated to recover or rebuild a marriage when there has been infidelity. For some people it is a deal breaker if the spouse cheats; for them cheating = goodbye. You don�t see those people here. The folks you see here are those who can acknowledge that they played a role in either the decline or demise of their marriage, and can envision their way past it to forgiveness and building a new and better marriage. They acknowledge not meeting their spouses� emotional needs and, while not condoning the deplorable act(s) their spouses committed, are willing to give their part in their marriage almost the same weight or gravity, and therefore are willing to be a willing and enthusiastic partner to recovery as long as the WS is also.

But there are also those here that did everything they could to meet their spouses emotional needs, did everything they could to make their marriage the best it could be, and just had a spouse that is self-centered, selfish, or in some cases just plain promiscuous with only a fleeting understanding of what the word fidelity means. For every truly repentant WS like wulffpackgirl there are people like PSUBiker�s WS. In WPG's case you almost wish that you could just shake her husband and say,"Man, look at the opportunity you have here, you can have a great marriage with a truly loving wife if you can just find it in your heart to do so" but i would never presume to do that because it is his own personal choice and not obligation. Who am I to fault her husband, even though I think the process she has gone through has made her a better person and someone that would never do that again? I think WPG would make an excellent wife, and there are other WS here that have become great spouses, because I think this program really works, it makes two people cooperate in every sense of the word, ensuring an involvement in each other�s lives that makes everything else pale in comparison. However, I would never fault any BS who says I�m just not feeling it and wants to divorce; I feel that is their right to do so. Two people are obligated to stay faithful to each other, when one breaks that covenant it releases the obligation from the other. If you wanted to stay married then you wouldn't have cheated. I feel that even more strongly in the stories when there is an OC.

Yes, it is important for children to have both parents involved in their life, doesn�t necessarily have to be a two parent under the same roof household although I do agree that is the OPTIMAL situation. But there are also many circumstances in which this is not possible or advisable, and we�ve seen it all here on these boards from physical/verbal/sexual abuse to neglect to substance abusers. Unfortunately in our society if a man divorces if often means that he is minimized in his child(ren)'s lives. I'll bet that if we changed that and made child custody a 50/50 split with both parents equally involved and responsible in their kids lives, there'd be a lot less divorces filed bceause one side no longer has an advantage. And being forced to stay with someone who does what they want because they know they can hold the children over your head like a marital sword of damocles will become a thing of the past.

I guess it all comes down to choice or free will, we all make decisions for ourselves and then get to live with the success or consequences of those actions. I think in a way you�re telling OleMittens that he has no choice, that he has been presented a set of circumstances not of his own making and should just suck it up for the common good. Is it better for OleMittens to have to support children that are not his? Is it better for his daughters? What are his daughters learmnign from this? If OleMittens had no other children, would we view his decision the same way? Even Dr Harley has advised men who have no other children that divorce is an option. OleMittens has a finite window of opportunity to get a paternity test done, what if he lets that go by and later his wife continues to �just want to have a little fun that doesn�t mean anything� and perhaps even having another OC? Should he continue to let this happen because he owes the effort? At which point does he draw the line?

In OleMittens case I would have filed for divorce the very next day, to me it is incomprehensible how a guy would stay with a wife that had a child by another man while we were married and then expect me to support and parent this child. Am I wrong to feel that way? That is not to say that I am calling other people wrong for doing so, that is their choice, not mine. And I�m not telling OleMittens to not make an effort, I�m just telling him that it is his choice and not obligation to do so. All of us here give advice to different posters and while most of it follows pretty common themes according to the Harley program, there are differing views on different situations, all you have to do is follow any thread about sex in MB101 to see that illustrated nicely. In this situation, I feel that OleMittens is placing himself and his children in jeopardy because I don�t think his wife is sincere at all, I don�t think she is really vested in building a new marriage and I think that she�ll cheat again because she placed no value on her marriage and was willing to commit paternity fraud in addition to the betrayal. She was only sorry that she got caught and created this big melodrama in her family.

OleMittens, sorry for the mininovel I've written here, I agree with the others that what you're feeling is normal for any BS and you'll probably be second guessing yourself for months to come. I'm not trying to tell you what to do that has to come from you and you alone, all i'm trying to point out is that i do feel that you should put yourself in a position legally to protect yourself if the effort that you should not feel obligated to make doesn't work out for you.

I'm with jin. Old Mittens has had a heck of a ride. He was betrayed by WW and his best friend from childhood? There's an OC here and WW says she did it just for fun?

That's some high cost fun.

It would be very, very hard to work through this and though the kids are innocent here, how happy will they be with a horribly depressed dad?

The best thing you can do "for the kids" is to model what marriage should look like;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/9/430

If your wife will not commit to an MB led marriage, the best thing you can do is tell her to hit the bricks.

The best thing you can do "for the kids" is to model what marriage should look like;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/9/430

If your wife will not commit to an MB led marriage, the best thing you can do is tell her to hit the bricks.

it's just most days I feel apathetic at best and downright hate her at worst.

It's just I feel so apathetic towards my wife I don't hate her and I'm pretty sure I still love her it's just I feel so empty when I'm with her. I don't laugh with her but then again I don't cry with her, I don't feel joyous when I'm with her but I also don't feel sorrow either, when we make love I don't feel a connection with her but at the same time it makes me feel a lot better when we do.
___________________________________________

Hi Mitt,

Sorry you have not been feeling well lately. I think it is very understandable.

Apart from how hard DDay and so on were, I would want to rule out that you are clinically depressed.
I will tell you about my own experience. I have always been an extremely cheerful and optimistic person. Even through the most gruesome (I use that word because that's how it was) experiences I would see the light behind the clouds.
Well when my 4th child was half a year old, I 'fell out of love' with my DH. I noticed that if he came into the door, I did not have that happy feeling that I never knew to have when I saw him, until I noticed it was gone. I felt: Nothing. If he carressed me, it did not tingle. He could have been a tree or a rock, I did not feel anything for him. Well, sex was still enjoyable, but that was it. I felt like he did not care about my feelings and as if everybody was having a ball and I was standing in the cold dark outside looking in through the window, and nobody noticed that I was not there. Nobody was interested in me.
At that time, the medical journal came in the mail (I am an MD) with an article on how to screen patients for depression.
The two questions to spot 90% of depressions were:

1.
During the last month, have you frequently felt depressed, sad, gloomy, or hopeles?

2.
During the last month, did you clearly have less desire for and joy after thing that used to bring you pleasure?

That's when I realised I had a depression. Before that I had contemplated leaving my husband, because I thought he deserved a wife that loved him. I was glad to realise that my lack of feelings were caused by my brain's chemistry and succeeded in recovering myself from this depression thing in three months. With ups and downs gradually having more ups.

I just told you this, because you described your lack of feelings, and it reminded me of myself during that period. I know your situation is different, and only you can say if you are feeling atypical or if it is your situation (although those can be intertwined). Just think about it.

I did not realise I was having one, allthough I knew the typical signs, but I had thought, that as I was still sleeping, having good appetite, not having suicidal thoughts and having an appetite for sex too, that I wasn't depressed. I did not feel very depressed or sad either. I was easily irritable but rather felt other people were mean to me and I felt that things were never going to be better in the future. It was bad and could only get worse. So I did feel hopeless in that sense, but you know, never imagined you could be depressed without feeling sad. Just numb, especially for husband, not so much for children.

Well enough about me, I hope this can help you or others differentiate between feelings and depr.

God bless you,

Happyheart


P.S. one last thing, During those days I noticed how you know you like something: because you feel good while doing it. BUT if you do not have these good feelings because of chemistry you feel as if you are not enjoying the things you used to like! We are very dependent on this chemistry so that our brain tells us the right things. (When you feel bad, you will find a reason for the feeling, rather than the other way around)

I feel that I should clear something up. My wife has been nothing but remorseful since D-Day and has followed then MB principles 100% since I came home if anything she's more committed to MB Then I am. She has done anything and everything I have asked And has been happy to do it She tells me where she goes and who she goes with Has given me all her passwords gotten rid of her cell phone And ended any friendships with males. Really the problem with our recovery has been me I'm the one who is distant doesn't want to spend UA time together who doesn't want to talk or spend any time together really. She will try to talk to me about my day or how I'm feeling and honestly I wish she would just leave me alone. And when I get like this it upsets her greatly and that just leads to fighting and by fighting I mean me yelling at her and her crying. I just don't know what to do she is trying so hard and yet I have the hardest time putting in the littlest bit of effort and this frustrates her and then her frustration leads to guilt and sadness and her frustration and sadness leads me to anger and the anger just makes me want to distance myself even more from her.


P.S I've said this a few times before my posts but I will say it again one last time my youngest daughter is MY daughter and nothing is going to change that I have no interest in giving her up and whether or not my wife and I recover My daughter will be MY daughter.

Mitt, the solution is to bring the body and the mind will follow. You are very detached and traumatized by your wife's betrayal. This was a huge shock to you. And you probably can get over this, but you won't FEEL like it at first. When couples start spending UA time together at first, they never feel like it. It feels WRONG. But before long, you will enjoy it and you will look forward to this time.

Start planning 4 dates a week where you are out ALONE without kids and without friends, doing something you enjoy, like going out to dinner and for drives. Focus on these top 4 intimate emotional needs: affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment.


Keep your conversations as pleasant as possible when you are together. Don't talk about the affair and don't fight. No fighting. But start doing this, Mitt. If you are going to try to make this work, you have to have an action plan. Having no plan is a plan to fail.

Also, didn't the affair take place in your home? Have you considered moving?

MelodyLane We can't move my wife lost her job because of the way she acted After D-Day. I hear what you're saying about Just sucking it up until the feelings start to return but that's what I struggle with. We never used to have to schedule time together it just seemed to happen so naturally I never came close in my life to meeting anyone is unique as my wife but now it's such a struggle to be with her and I just don't know if I have it in me to save this marriage.