Hi everyone... it's my first post.

Please excuse how long this is in advance!

I've only been reading on the forums for a bit but I've read through the Surviving Infidelity article and much more.

I discovered my husband's emotional affair on Nov 8. It seems to have been going on for most or all of September and October until I exposed it in November.

We had been going through some issues and I knew he was unhappy to a certain extent in our marriage but things were being worked on already and changes were on the way. What I mean by that is I am currently 7 months pregnant with our 3rd child so big changes (the kind he wanted) were on the way and yes, he cheated on me while pregnant with his child. He has issues with me being neglectful to him & our family due to my ambition in pursuing and growing a business I started in addition to working a FT job. Anyway, like I said those issues were out in the open and being worked on BEFORE I found out about the EA.

Ever since I found out about the EA, he does nothing but blame me for IT and everything else in our marriage. Nothing is his fault, he shows ZERO remorse for the affair. It took him over a week to cut off contact with the OW and he is NOT being anywhere near as open with me as I feel I deserve.

I discovered the affair through emails. She is someone from work (of course). I confronted her too so she knows I know. She is [unhappily] married as well, with kids of her own. Once the affair was exposed, instead of wanting to be open and honest with me in order to move forward, he went into full lockdown mode - changed all his passwords and locked everything down even more - cell phone, computer, etc.

This is the supposed context and depth of the affair and what I know:
- they talked at work mostly and on the phone, their mutual connection was because they were both unhappy in their marriages
- once the EA was discovered by the OW's husband, cell phone communication mostly stopped because that's how he caught her (I had not yet discovered the relationship)
- they only met outside of work twice, supposedly. Once was a coincidence but they spent at least 1/2 hour together and were not alone - my kids and her kids were all there (playing together - how lovely).
- the second time was on DDay. I found out he was planning to meet her that day, we discussed it and he went to go tell her that I knew and that it was done (supposedly)
- he continue heavy phone contact with her for about 1 week after that DDay
- From what I can tell from my investigating, the timeline is accurate - the phone calls and emails and dates match up so I don't think it was going on any longer than that
- the content of the emails was all "sweet talk"...nothing sexual but definitely emotional and mushy (sickeningly so). "thinking of you"; "longing for you", "falling in love with you", etc etc
- he has not admitted to anything physical but I have not ruled it out...even if it wasn't sex, I know there is a possibility there may have been something and he will never tell me

I think I caught it very early. But... does that make it any LESS of an EA? Should I handle it differently than a LTA or a physical affair? As far as I can tell, he has not communicated with her since Nov 13. So we are in our 2nd week of withdrawal. I definitely see the symptoms. He has now minimized it to the point of "I don't consider it cheating" and of course it is 100% justified by how neglectful *I* had been in the marriage. SO, whenever I bring it up and try to discuss it in order to help me heal, he sighs, shakes his head and says "you'll never be able to get past this and work on the REAL problem which is YOU".

I'm done believing this is all my fault. The more I think about the timelines the more I realize that our marriage issues got EXPONENTIALLY worse the minute she was heavily in the picture.

We are on the mend...somewhat. There are good days and bad days and I feel like every time I bring something up, I make it WORSE instead of better. But I think we need to talk. He has to man up and take some responsibility for this. He needs to be open (no more lockdown)...I don't trust him one bit right now. I don't even trust that there is NC...there's just no way for me to verify right now.

But whenever I try to explain things like this, he says I'm "making it all about me". He is definitely in that fog where he has now made out our last THREE years of marriage to have been miserable for him...all this to justify what he has done. There have been tough times in 3 years, sure, and I was far from the perfect wife but...the way he paints the picture now is ridiculous. I now know it's the affair talking. I mean - why would we have agreed to wanting a third child if the marriage was so awful 5 or 6 months ago?

My fear is that by continuing to bring up the affair that I am making it a much bigger deal than it ever really was. However, by NOT talking about it, I feel like I'm being a doormat and letting him get away with blaming me solely for something he did that was extremely hurtful and disrespectful to me.

I know people here have gone through so much worse so I have only experienced a small percentage of their pain. Is this EA so insignificant that I should really just let him sweep it under the rug like this?

Should I just focus on us (my part) and forget about what I need (the openness and the for him to accept some responsibility and show an iota of remorse?) Should I give it time for the fog/withdrawal to lift and then re-approach him?

Thank you for listening. Oh we are both in our mid-thirties if that makes a difference.

Does he still work with the OW?

Also, how many affairs has he had?

Are you married? How long married? Have either of you been married before?

No other affairs [that I know of!].

We've been married 7 years and this is the first marriage for both of us.

Yes, he still works with her unfortunately. It's a situation where, in theory, he can avoid contact or even seeing her for several weeks at a time. There should never be a time where he needs to spend extended time with her (like say more than 1/2 hour) and they would never need to be alone.

Hi, Pieces. I'm sorry you've had to find your way here, but welcome to Marriage Builders.

Questions, please:
You say your WH and his OW worked together. Is that still the case?

Have you spoken to her BH to compare notes so you know what he's found out?

If he has locked down all his stuff, they have probably pushed the affair underground. It isn't over. If they're still working together, it's definitely not over.

Do your children know? Your parents on both sides?

How about their employer? Does their employer know that they are carrying on an adulterous affair using company resources?

It IS all about you, now, sweetie.

The affair is continuing if they have continued to work together.

EA's are equally devastating to PA's. Both involve deceit and betrayal from the person you trusted the most. It is NOT insignificant.

Here's the problem - they are still working together. The fog isn't going to lift under these conditions. One of them will have to leave that job.

Can you talk to OWH and get more info from him? That would be a good place to start. Do you know anyone at their job who would be willing to gather info on their activities? Can you show up there unannounced, like to 'surprise' him at lunchtime? (and see if he's with her)

Or he can see her every day, yes? Part of ending an affair involves no contact with the affair partner for life.

Ok, this is the problem. As long as they still see each other at work he will never withdraw and your marriage will never recover. You can just consider that as long as they work together the affair is still on. The affair will become more entrenched.

So that is where I would start if I were you. He has to leave the job. Have you exposed the affair to his employer? Exposing the affair to his employer will be a great incentive in getting him out of there.

If you expose the affair to the Director of HR and a key VP, they can watch them at work and keep them separated until your H finds a new job. That will not allow you to recover your marriage, but it might hold your marriage together until he gets out of there.

The fact that your husband blames you for his affair tells me the affair is far from over. He had the affair for one reason and one reason only: he has poor boundaries around women. And he is extremely unprofessional. People who have affairs at work are walking legal liabilities; loose cannons.

I would send this letter to the director of Human Resources, ccing a key VP and both of their supervisors. Then when your husband comes home tonight let him know that the only way this will work is if he leaves that job, ends all contact for life and commits to a program of recovery. [I will post some talking points in my next post]

The Aftermath
When things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch.

First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair.


Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Thank you for the replies, I am going to try to answer all your questions...

Leaving this job is just not an option right now. There can be transfers but it could also happen that this woman gets transferred to the same place through none of their doing. In fact, it almost happened! When I exposed the affair I told him to put in for a transfer and he brushed me off. Just this week word came down that there was a possibility that SHE would be transferred to that same building I was asking HIM to transfer to (totally coincidental!). Had he gone for the transfer and hers gone through as well - they would have ended up in the same place again.

Here's where it gets VERY delicate. Husband and I also work together, met and married at work. Thaaaat's right. We ALL work for the same employer. We are spread out over different buildings and towns but, same employer. I can walk into his office whenever I feel like it and be almost totally justified so yes, that is an option. In fact, that is how and where I confronted the OW. They both [censored] their pants when they realized how serious this was b/c they know that three people's jobs are at stake here.

I have not spoken with the OW's BH. My husband seemed VERY protective of that whole issue. He claims that her husband knows but I suspect he has no clue the extent of it.

My kids don't know. Only my mom knows SOME information. Not all.

As for the employer knowing...they've probably heard rumors by now. Apparently rumors had already started which of course makes me question HOW much they were carrying on at work for rumors to start. Rumors don't start over phone calls that no one knows about.

Affair pushed underground...that's what I suspect as well...I can still monitor SOME stuff but he's being VERY careful now. Although he does account for his whereabouts voluntarily. He only gets defensive when/if I press for more details.

I think I can get someone to gather information on their activities... if not on my own... I have to be careful not to get myself in trouble at work though.

Poor boundaries with women = omg YES! When I got access to his email I quickly realized that he has been carrying on unprofessional communications with several women at work. Nothing close to an EA - but just things that are completely unprofessional... this EA was just a matter of time. The ironic part is that he CONSTANTLY preaches to me about MY boundaries with men to the point that I barely talk to or look at men AT ALL!

You're going to need to expose this, pieces. If his leaving the job isn't an option right now, is ending your marriage an option? That's what you're faced with, I'm sorry to say.

Here's your first exposure target. I suspect her husband is completely in the dark. Oh, she may have mentioned something in passing to him, but it probably went like this:

"You're not gonna believe what happened today. I was in Mr.Pieces' office, giving him some invoices, right? And in walks Mrs. Pieces, who starts yelling at me out of the blue to leave her husband alone! OMG, is she crazy, or what?? Like I would be interested in that guy at all, with my fantastic husband and children to come home to every night! Anyway, some of the other girls in the break room were telling me later that Mrs. Pieces has accused them of going after her husband, too! What a nut job!"

And that would successfully gaslight her husband, who is now going to be very wary of your contact with him. So make sure you've got something to back it up, like emails, copies of texts, times when he may have been with her, etc.

The employer is a good target for you, as well. They may be liable for a harassment lawsuit from anyone at that job. Is your WH in any position of authority over her, or anyone else?

His parents and your children need to know.

But this needs to be done all at once. Don't trickle expose - that can backfire on you.

My children are 2 and 6...I have to disagree with you there.

I am 7 months pregnant... I don't really think ending my marriage right this second is an option. It's not impossible of course, and I haven't ruled it out if necessary...I kind of accepted that that could be a possibility but that is not what I want and not what he says HE wants either.

No position of authority over her. However, I do suspect that if the right people at our employer got wind of this, they would do everything in their power to separate the two of them because this is a very volatile situation here at work. It's a ticking time bomb and they would know it.

I really would like to keep things civil. I know if I take it there, he's going to go into full defense mode for a long time and we won't get anywhere. I KNOW he doesn't want to leave his children and hurt them.

Isn't it possible that this relationship didn't run that deep yet? Isn't it still possible to move on without all the drastic job quitting, divorce threatening measures? Or am I fooling myself because I so badly want to believe it wasn't "that bad"?

Then this is definitely where I would begin. Notify Human Resources about the affair and they can either transfer or terminate your husband. Either way, you will win here. But he cannot work at the same place anymore. It didn't protect your marriage in the past and it won't protect it in the future.


That is great!! You know where the Human Resources Director's office is located! So getting those 2 separated will be the first step. The next will be to get YOU out of there.


I would do this ASAP.


Tell any children over the age of 4 and most certainly tell your mother and everyone else. Go read the link in my signature Exposure 101.


This all misses the point and will get you nowhere. He has to leave the job.

The basic issue is that you have lowered the bar SO LOW that recovery is impossible, Piecesofme. By keeping your H's activities a secret, you only serve to be his enabler. Stop doing that if you want to remain married.

YOU are ending your marriage by enabling it. I just want to point out that you are headed to divorce RIGHT NOW. Your marriage is being threatened by an affair and unless you do something about it, you will end up divorced. What we are telling you is most likely to result in a RECOVERY.

And of course a 6 year old can understand adultery and should be told the truth. Giving children false explanations for the source of tension in their home just teaches them to be dishonest. children also believe that THEY are the cause of the problem when parents lie to them.


Things will not be "civil" when you land in divorce court over an affair. What you are trying to do is avoid conflict. Avoiding conflict will lead you right to divorce.

You don't have the luxury of avoiding conflict and sweeping this problem under the rug when you have 2 little kids and one more on the way. You have to protect them too.

Dr Harley speaks to a betrayed husband who never exposed his wife's workplace affair. The wife was LEAVING him for the affair. This is where you are headed.

Dr H tells this man it is very hard to save a marriage when you are an ENABLER: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2814

Yikes... ok. This is scaring me... because it all makes sense.

Yes I am trying to avoid conflict.

Yes I am enabling...I can see that now. In my head, I was making it easier to move forward.

He says I have no right to make demands of him because this is all my fault anyway. So for me to demand all this stuff is going to send him over the edge... how can I do it without causing huge turmoil...or is that unavoidable and necessary at this point?

Should I wait until I make a plan? I'm starting therapy (for myself - he won't go) next week... should I wait until then?

If he has cut off communication with her (again, as far as I can tell) and it SEEMS that he is coming back around and actually working on us, wouldn't doing all this just bring us back to step one?

I think everyone will tell you you are not past step one. You are not even at step zero.

Nothing will work until there is no contact between them. You will remain triggered if you see her.

These are fundamental. No other questions are worth answering until this is accomplished.

Exposure ruins the fantasy. Shows them that scurrying around in the dark makes them roaches, not beautiful butterflies. That their beautiful flower is really a weed that wilts in the glare of the lights.

It will get ugly. For the affair. There will be anger. But avoiding anger hasn't gotten you very far yet, has it?

NC means NO contact. It is fundamental. You have to realize that.

I would put a VAR in his car under his seat or in the dash board. He probably talks freely to her in the car on his way to work. you will catch what they say with it.

Get a keylogger too for your home PC. Desktopshark is a great one and has lots of different options.

Your hubby has gone to lock down mode? That means the affair is still on ... he is addicted to the attention he is getting from the OW just like a crack head is addicted to his crack. Time to take the crack pipe away. Expect him to be angry ... blow his top .. etc ... but as far as marriage goes .. there is no privacy between spouses except the use of the bathroom. People who dont have anything to hide ... dont need to lock their PCs and phones.

If you get some hard evidence of the affair, do not let on that you have evidence bring it here for the vets to disect and direct you. You will need to expose this to everyone once ya got the goods.. far and wide so he can face the consequences of his actions. DO NOT WARN HIM .. just do it! If you warn him or threaten exposure he will turn it around and make you the bad guy before you get a chance to state your case and then things will get even tougher.

meanwhile ... read up everything you can here .. act like everything is ok while you snoop. Do a great PLAN A with a carrot and stick. Once the pressure is off .. he will slip up when he gets comfortable. Hopefully the VAR or the keylogger will find what you need. Then be ready for war.

MNG

You say he seems like he is coming around .. but that should not stop you from CONFIRMING .. all the while you do a good PLAN A. pretend like its all ok while you gather your goods!

Ok...so what is a VAR - I tried googling it and I'm not getting the right thing - what is it an acronym for?

I have access to his phone records & text msgs already (unbeknownst to him) - there have been no phone calls on his cell or text messages to or from her since the 13th.

And... if this even matters, all communication on his cell since Dday has been initiated by her only.

I am monitoring his home PC but not his work PC or work emails (at the moment, it's just a matter of time until I gain access to that again). His home PC activities (where I found evidence of the affair before, show NC with her) again, since DDay. HOWEVER, he does know that's how I caught him the first time so he might just be taking extra precautions on his home PC.


Because of my showing up at their place of employment, they were already completely exposed at work (in their building). So there's no place for them to hide there - it's not a pretty little fantasy for them there anymore. They were VERY much shamed by me showing up there in all my pregnant glory and exposing them. Everyone in their building knows. (just not the rest of the entire company, to my knowledge)

Should I try to gently ask him to open up once more before I pull out all the stops on snoop mode? I don't want to tip him off.

Thank you so much - I do think confirming the NC is a good plan for right now.