I know you don't, I'm working my way up to it. I just want to have it a good plan in place. Still gathering intel...this bit of intel was crucial so I'm glad I got it. Don't give up on me yet LOL

your stitch sounds eerily similar to mine 2 years ago. I found a EA in October, then found another OW in December.

Had I found MB immediately I could have saved myself alot of heartache.

Listen to what thses posters are telling you. And do what they say. They have all been in your shoes.

You can make this M work, but you have to get to the bottom of his lies, AND he has to be repentant AND willing to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe.

You can find out what all he is up to with a poly. I did a poly after 5 months of gut-wrenching trickle truth. That is the ONLY way you will discove the extent of his A's. DONT BELIEVE WHAT HE TELLS YOU! W'S LIE!! even if he sobs and pleads and begs you to believe him.....do the poly.

Once divorce begins, you need to use different tactics to protect your legal position. That's all I meant.

There are times when evidence can be used as a bargaining chip in the divorce. In some states you can sue the OW/OM for alienation of affection and you need to protect your information (and discuss with your attorney). After my divorce was filed I could not expose to WXH's work or family because there were injunctions preventing it until the divorce was final.

I was under the impression that the purpose of exposure is to help end the affair and restore the marriage. If the BS no longer desires to restore the marriage why would they do a widespread exposure? Can you help me understand, Mel?

Ok I have questions. Should I continue on this thread or go back to my original? (sorry about that)

What were you able to confirm with the poly?

Dr Harley believes in honesty regardless of the reason. Sometimes a BS may not choose to save the marriage but others should still know about the affair. People who know about the divorce should be told why. First off, there is no reason to keep it a secret or give false explanations for the divorce. And secondly, if kept secret, it puts a BS in awkward positions for years to come.


This is a good reason to expose the affair BEFORE divorce is filed. Keeping it secret is to enable his affair and that is not something most folks would sign on for. I would not be agreeable to that.

This is my plan right now, please tell me if I am on the right track:
1 - Start a solid Plan A (I've been doing it sloppily - too many LBs) while continuing to gather intel on the other A so that I can:

2 - Expose all affairs thoroughly

3 - Demand (?) no contact with all affairs (requiring job situation change)

3 - Demand (?) total transparency & disclosure (considering a poly for this portion) - i.e. he must reveal and open up all passwords, phone records (what else?) if we are to move forward

Questions:
-what do I do if he refuses any of the conditions? For example - his favorite is that he won't reveal his passwords because he still deserves "privacy". Yes I know it's so he can continue to cheat but what is my answer to that - just stand firm with my demand?

-What about his whereabouts? He can easily just lie to me about where he is - what if just sees the other women when convenient?

He's here be back in a bit...

STEP ONE

STEP TWO

The Aftermath
When things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch.

First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair.


Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

I will post on the other thread.

Yes


Yes. Ask him to start looking for a job where he can be held accountable. When you present your conditions, say it like this:

"this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage.." Don't say "I demand you do these things." Say this is what it will take. And these things are not negotiable.


You tell him thats not acceptable. There is nothing private in marriage. If he wants to keep secrets from you, you will rightly assume he is hiding something.


If he lies, then you should go to Plan B. These measures are not something to be grudgingly agreed to, but things that are designed to make you feel safe. If he is not enthuiastic about them then it is clear he is not interested in making you safe. If he won't agree to these things, ask him to MOVE OUT. Let him know you won't stay in the marriage under these conditions.

Thank you Melody!

The rest of my questions:
-what about fulfilling sexual needs? He doesn't know I got tested and I won't have results for 2 weeks. I expect to be able to confront and expose all affairs by that point so at that point do I ask him to get tested so we can continue to have sex? And in the meantime do I continue fulfilling that need?

-He did the EA questionnaire w/me and the top 3 needs were (in order):
1 - Family commitment
2 - Sexual Fulfillment
3 - Domestic Support
However, it seems to ME that the need these other women were fulfilling was Admiration. He listed that very low (#8) on his questionnaire. What gives?

Has he slept with these women? If you don't think he has, then I would sleep with him.


FC and DS are not intimate emotional needs and have nothing to do why he fell in love. [they are not intimate emotional needs] I would focus on the top 4 intimate emotional needs and put the questionaires aside for now. Focus on conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment.

The reason he rated FC and DS as hign EN's is because he is not in love.

PoM, if you clicky notify and send a request to the mods, they will merge your two threads for you.



Yes. Your only alternative is to agree to his 'privacy' to have affairs.

You Plan A for three/four weeks, so you sound like a broken record, telling him what your conditions are. If he comes back with a ludicrous request for privacy, you either ignore his response by changing the subject, walk off and make a romantic dinner or reverse fog babble.

fog babble : "I deserve privacy"

reverse fog babble: "yes, there has been way too much secrecy and I want us to have a more open, loving life together"

Then rinse and repeat until you are in Plan B or he agrees to your conditions.

indiegirl, you are a rockstar!!

No, I don't think he slept with the first EA I discovered (the more recent one) but I think the second one I just stumbled on yesterday has probably been going on much longer and therefore has a much higher probability of having gone physical at some point. I have no clue on that one. I only have one line in one email to go on, and insinuation that they have texted, and the fact that I know that they used to talk on the phone regularly (about 1 per month that he would tell me about).


He claims the lack of me meeting those needs is why he fell out of love with me or "became disconnected from me" as he puts it. So that's why I thought I had to focus on those.

Question... since I found out about the second possible A, I've been trying to be kind and still meeting his ENs but I couldn't help but become a little colder and more distant (at least for now). It seems to have flipped the switch in HIM. And now HE is the one being affectionate toward me. As of 3 - 4 weeks ago (first d-day) it was all me and if he didn't want my affection he had no qualms in letting me know.

ETA: Is a little bit of the cold shoulder a bad thing to do? I would think so going by MB concepts.

Also while in Plan A - if I discover (as opposed to him telling me) about any contact with OW#1 - what do I do? Keep my mouth shut b/c I am still gathering intel on OW#2?

When I do confront and expose, if he goes back into lockdown mode and I lose all my snooping abilities, then what? Plan B?

Found OW#2's BH!! I have a way to expose to him now!

And one more question: What if nothing else resurfaces regarding his relationship with OW#2 within the next 3 - 4 weeks? Do I confront and expose with the little intel I have?

Thanks Indiegirl! Will do!

POM, sorry if I'm missing info between the different threads, but you've got the OW's "craving" comment to your H on screencap already, right? That sounds like plenty to run with. You're not thinking of waiting 3 or 4 weeks to expose, are you?

No you aren't missing anything. Should I expose now? I feel like I'll have the strength to by tomorrow or the day after. I was a puddle of nothing today and the sooner we get this out of the way, the sooner we can start working toward recovery, right?

I'm just concerned that I'll get "That's all you got? oh please, that's nothing! That's not an EA!" Combined with a shock and awe of more exposure though - maybe it'll work. But I'm also wondering at this point if there are more OWs.

What do you suggest?

ETA: Also I was doing Plan A (albeit a sloppy one) since D-Day #1 but discovered repeated contact with OW#1 at least once per week the for the whole 3-4 weeks. He refused open transparency and will again, I am sure of it. I don't feel I got to do the BEST PLAN A I could. I can do better. So maybe 2 weeks of a kickazz plan A then expose?

ETA #2: (sorry for all the questions)
Like I said today he seemed very remorseful (for the first time!) and even called himself a "monster" for what he did to me, said that he didn't even know who he was (something I had said to him), and that I didn't deserve what he did to me.

FINALLY!

BUT...and here's the big but... he emailed OW#2 only yesterday... What. the. eff? My head is so messed up from all this...

EVERYTHING he has done, that is under our definition of cheating, over the last 18 years! From PA's to simply (not to say I take it lightly) looking a name up on the internet.

When I told him I had scheduled a poly....he started remembering things. It took a couple days of talking and note taking to get most of it, then he remembered a couple other things on the day of the poly.... He was SHAKING like a chihuahua when he sat down in that chair!

My FWH has been in law enforcement his entire life, he knows he cannot "beat" the poly.

If you find a great poly tech, and word your questions correctly, your WH will be singing before he even gets hooked up to the machine.

It's a sobering experience for a WS. And, when you insist he take one, his reaction will tell you ALOT.