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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
Originally Posted by mmmherb
Uh, when has withdrawal started?



I'm guessing it starts today?

It starts when he ends contact. ALL CONTACT.

Here is what it will take to recover your marriage:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley in Requirements for Recovery
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
[
New contact policy... yep, I guess we will see. Of course they can go further underground. Ultimately, if he wants to continue the affair HE WILL find a way. I cannot control every action of his. I have to accept that. And then HE will have to accept the consequences of that which are that he WILL lose his family. If he continues the affair after this he and I are done.

Actually, YOU will pay the consequences. You and your children. He is very willing to lose his family, as you have already seen. Do you think the loss of his family prevented him last night? It hasn't stopped him in the past and won't stop him in the future. Trust me on this!!

So what do you do? You give him conditions and DEMAND extraordinary precautions to protect you from his abusive behavior. He can't have an affair if his life is structured so that it is SO TRANSPARENT that is impossible to carry on the secret second life necessary for an affair.

But again, this is your life, not mine. If you want help with this folks will help you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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So when does he leave the job? He can't work there anymore.
Yes. Everything depends on this, Pieces. In my sitch, my husband was exposed at work by the OWH. He thanked God that her husband did so, because he didn't know how to end it.

There was a point where my H realized that he was in over his head and was in a bad situation. He determined to end it and make it a benign dalliance that I would never hear about. He tried for weeks to avoid her, but the addiction pulled him to her. He would swear to himself each day that he wouldn't go near her. He would walk into his office at 9, firmly resolved to have nothing to do with her. By 11, he was in her cubicle.

Her H even threatened him, and that didn't stop him.

The day they were exposed to their employer OWH made OW quit her job. (After threatening my H's employer with a lawsuit.) That ended the affair. Done. Dead.

This is an addiction. He won't be able to break this without leaving that job. He cannot have any sort of contact with her, even remotely. It's that simple.

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So I guess all I can do now is go into plan A, hope that works while we wait for a transfer scenario or wait for either this affair or another that he could have ANYWHERE with ANY woman ANYWAY to end my marriage. What am I supposed to do, lock my husband in the basement to keep him married to me?

He WILL see other women in his daily life, regardless of where he works. Playah or not...if he's not in love with me he won't be faithful and THAT is now the root of the problem.

Where's the forum the teaches you how to "just stay together for the kids" because I can see that that is where we are headed.




Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)

3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
Where's the forum the teaches you how to "just stay together for the kids" because I can see that that is where we are headed.


YIKES this is not a 'marriage at all costs' forum. Why would you want to teach your children that marriages are fake?

Serial cheaters can change - but they will have to account for all their time, keep themselves very open to scrutiny and probably work from home.

If you arent up for that, you should consider Plan B and Plan D.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
YIKES this is not a 'marriage at all costs' forum. Why would you want to teach your children that marriages are fake?

Serial cheaters can change - but they will have to account for all their time, keep themselves very open to scrutiny and probably work from home.

If you arent up for that, you should consider Plan B and Plan D.

I just feel very defeated & hopeless right now. I see no end in sight. He walks around everyday like nothing is wrong - he is happy, he can eat, he can sleep just fine. I can barely function some days. Maybe I should cheat so I could be half as happy as he is right now.

Today I really do just want to leave. Today Plan B sounds wonderful to me right now. (why is it that every time there is a new discovery it takes more and more days for the numbness to go away and the pain to set in?)

My parents stayed together for the kids and it didn't teach me that marriages are fake. Only MY now miserable marriage destroyed the illusion of marriage that I once had.


Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)

3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
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Is this his first marriage?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Is this his first marriage?

Yes, his first, my first. We married when I was 27 he was 31 and we got pregnant on the honeymoon. I was on the pill but I had messed with the timing of it to try to avoid getting my period on the honeymoon and instead created my beautiful first born son. We've been married 7 years and been together for 11 years total.

Why do you ask? Is because most first marriages don't work out?


Me: BW (34)
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3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Is this his first marriage?

Yes, his first, my first. We married when I was 27 he was 31 and we got pregnant on the honeymoon. I was on the pill but I had messed with the timing of it to try to avoid getting my period on the honeymoon and instead created my beautiful first born son. We've been married 7 years and been together for 11 years total.

Why do you ask? Is because most first marriages don't work out?

Actually more second marriages don't work out than first.

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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
So I guess all I can do now is go into plan A

Not true. This is the only option you are willing to take.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Not true. This is the only option you are willing to take.


Right, my other options are:
1 - force my husband to quit his job and work at home so that he never leaves the house without me and *hopefully* never sees another living breathing woman again. (You know he actually COULD work from home but it would STILL entail leaving the house and/or meeting with clients that could potentially be female)

2 - move out

Option #1 sounds ultra realistic.
Option #2 is totally possible but you are right - I am not willing to take this option right this second.

Option #2 will not bring him back to me. It will just give him all the freedom to have all the affairs he wants to so I may as well just get divorced. All I see of the plan B people on here is that they are prolonging an inevitable divorce while their WS happily continues their affairs without facing any of the repercussions of actual divorce and the BS has their life on pause. With a knife in their gut. Sounds great. Plan B for 6 or 7 months? Uh, no - that's called separation pending divorce.

I have considered, as a final feeble effort, writing a letter to the OW's BH asking that HE urge HER to leave the job. Do you recommend this?

And if that works then yay, OW#1 is out of the picture but what about all the other women in the world?









Me: BW (34)
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3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


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Let us know when you get serious. I refuse to waste my valuable time on someone who is less serious than me about her own marriage. When you start putting your energy into finding creative solutions instaed of creative and elaborate EXCUSES I will know you are serious. This post is not serious, it is stupid.

Good luck on that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Have you still not exposed to OWH?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2573876 12/10/11 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Have you still not exposed to OWH?

YES I have.

Oh and btw - my WH was FURIOUS when he found out. Said EVERYTHING you guys said he would. And then he calmed down and by the end of that SAME night - he was already saying how it was "probably a good thing".

I was floored. I am a total exposure convert!! Exposure is the absolute BEST thing ever. It's the ONLY reason why there may be a hint of a chance still here. If anyone is in doubt - just do it.



Me: BW (34)
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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
All I see of the plan B people on here is that they are prolonging an inevitable divorce while their WS happily continues their affairs without facing any of the repercussions of actual divorce and the BS has their life on pause. With a knife in their gut. Sounds great. Plan B for 6 or 7 months? Uh, no - that's called separation pending divorce.

You obviously do not understand the purpose of Plan B.

Aside from not enabling your WS's cake-eating...Plan B = protecting yourself. Women who put up with the stress of dealing w/a wandering spouse end up with PTSD, nervous breakdowns or later in life a weakened immune system and other health issues.

I have a very good friend who endured her WS's A and abuse for much longer than Dr Harley recommends (3-4 weeks) and stayed in contact with him even after the D was filed. She tells me she wishes she knew about Plan B. She tells me that she is sure she suffered from PTSD and still is not recovered even though the D was final a couple of years ago.



Look at what you said yourself:

Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
I just feel very defeated & hopeless right now. I see no end in sight. He walks around everyday like nothing is wrong - he is happy, he can eat, he can sleep just fine. I can barely function some days.

I may not have my marriage, but I have my health and my sanity. You want to try recovering with a WS who is still in contact/doesn't implement EPs, you are signing up for a life of HELL. Your choice. But please do not knock Plan B when you haven't even tried it.

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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Not true. This is the only option you are willing to take.
Option #2 will not bring him back to me. It will just give him all the freedom to have all the affairs he wants to so I may as well just get divorced.

You can divorce while implementing Plan B. Many Bss do it to protect themselves legally. You can always remarry later or halt the divorce if the plan works on him.

All I see of the plan B people on here is that they are prolonging an inevitable divorce while their WS happily continues their affairs without facing any of the repercussions of actual divorce and the BS has their life on pause. With a knife in their gut. Sounds great. Plan B for 6 or 7 months? Uh, no - that's called separation pending divorce.

Separation usually DOES preceed divorce. Divorce is not instantaneous. Plan B is actually fantastic. It is not a knife in your gut. The main aim of Plan B is to heal, concentrate on one's own life and build a future based on independence. People in Plan B are urged to reshape their careers, look at their bucket list and create an amazing lifestyle for themselves. This go-getting attitude (as opposed to becoming an abused basket case in a drawn out Plan A) will either make them look fantastic to the WS or will make the divorce hurt less when the BS is ready to file.

Meanwhile the WS loses the person who is best at filling their needs. Affairs are not very substantial or satisfying and the loss of the BS makes the waywrd realise that. On the other hand if they do prefer the thrill of affairs over a marriage than they really are a lost cause and should be treated as such.

It is clear you do not really understand Plan B. But thats ok, you have to have enjoyed the healing it provides to really appreciate it. I have been in Plan B for six months. I honestly have never been happier.Your only alternative to Plan B is to Plan A indefinitely which makes you a doormat full of empty threats. Other posters are right - you will have to kick him out and not communicate with him if he continues his affair for him to take you seriously.

I have considered, as a final feeble effort, writing a letter to the OW's BH asking that HE urge HER to leave the job. Do you recommend this?

You should both be communicating with each other regularly with the aim of keeping them seperate, so by all means put this to him. Why not just call him up?

And if that works then yay, OW#1 is out of the picture but what about all the other women in the world?

There are posters on here who have created such integrated lifestyles with their serial cheater that there is no opportunity for cheating. The spouses work togehter or the wayward is retired etc. For example what you say about him leaving the house to meet female clients, that is obviously a no-go. It would need to be a job where he is not alone with women ever. This is not my area of expertise so hopefully someone can give you more detailed pointers on this.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by PiecesOfMe
Originally Posted by CWMI
Have you still not exposed to OWH?

YES I have.

Oh and btw - my WH was FURIOUS when he found out. Said EVERYTHING you guys said he would. And then he calmed down and by the end of that SAME night - he was already saying how it was "probably a good thing".

I was floored. I am a total exposure convert!! Exposure is the absolute BEST thing ever. It's the ONLY reason why there may be a hint of a chance still here. If anyone is in doubt - just do it.



Hopefully you will soon be a Plan B convert! grin


Honestly it is amazing. Six months and I feel totally fantastic!

My bar for recovery has gotten higher and higher. WH would really need to impress me these days to come back into the marraige. And my divorce is pending. Thanks to the healing of Plan B it really will hurt less if it goes through.

Where couples have reconciled as a result of plan B - you know it was because the BS finally got TOUGH. and that's how I feel - tough. I honestly dont care now if he never comes back but if he does, he must impress me a whole lot.

Separation IS risky - there is a risk they may never come back. A forever Plan A is certain doom however. Eventually enough must be enough.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Let us know when you get serious. I refuse to waste my valuable time on someone who is less serious than me about her own marriage. When you start putting your energy into finding creative solutions instaed of creative and elaborate EXCUSES I will know you are serious. This post is not serious, it is stupid.

Good luck on that.


I appreciated every bit of time you have spent on me and my situation Melody. Without your unrelenting insistence on exposure I would never have done it. It is because of exposure that we have a tiny chance here. It is because of that that I perk up particularly when YOU reply.

However, once finding out about OW#2 I think some of the solutions presented here fail to address the root of the problem and instead present unrealistic scenarios that are not solutions at all.


Can you honestly tell me that forcing my husband to work from home is a solution to the problem of him being a serial cheater? Remove him from the possibility of communicating with other women in the workplace? That is so unrealistic. How is that even possible - I can't FORCE him to do that! I can demand it, sure, he will say no, and then I have to follow through on my threat and move out. Final outcome = divorce aka he didn't want to be with me anymore anyway because he didn't want to try that hard.

If looking for REALISTIC solutions and options here make this post stupid to you Melody, then so be it. It doesn't mean I am not serious about my marriage. Thank you for your help this far - it HAS been invaluable! I hate to lose your input but I guess we've reached a point where you delve into the unrealistically creative solutions that guarantee the above outcome and I am still trying to find realistic ones that MIGHT maybe help.

Hopefully there are others here who CAN offer REALISTIC solutions and are willing to continue to help me. I would really appreciate it and could certainly use the help. If not I am SOL.

So, if anyone is still willing to listen, I ask once again:
would writing to the OW's BH asking HIM to work on getting her out of the workplace be a REALISTIC and advisable course of action?

At least I can start to address THAT part of the problem perhaps a little sooner than waiting for the transfer.

At this point I have very little hope left going by what all of you are telling me here anyway. Because based on what is being said here it has been determined that my WH is:

-a serial cheater and serial cheaters can only be cured by not being anywhere near the opposite sex so they can't be tempted

-the ONLY way we are even at square one is once the work situation changes because only THEN can withdrawal begin and only after THAT can recovery begin

If I sit here and don't Plan A in the meantime, I can guarantee you nothing will get fixed.

But let me ask you this - lets say he quits his job tomorrow and starts working from home... and I am doing a kick azz Plan A what is to stop him from going down to the store and picking up an affair phone and continuing? NOTHING.

THAT is the point we are at here. There are no more options. Unless I move out.

PLEASE, someone explain to me how I have that wrong.










Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)

3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


Married 7 years
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I have considered, as a final feeble effort, writing a letter to the OW's BH asking that HE urge HER to leave the job. Do you recommend this?
No. Don't do this. You have no control over what's going on in their house. Don't attempt to insert yourself into that.


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Separation usually DOES preceed divorce. Divorce is not instantaneous. Plan B is actually fantastic. It is not a knife in your gut. The main aim of Plan B is to heal, concentrate on one's own life and build a future based on independence. People in Plan B are urged to reshape their careers, look at their bucket list and create an amazing lifestyle for themselves. This go-getting attitude (as opposed to becoming an abused basket case in a drawn out Plan A) will either make them look fantastic to the WS or will make the divorce hurt less when the BS is ready to file.

Ok so Plan B is moving out and moving on with the added twist of "oh maybe he'll notice how awesome I am now and come back to me but if he doesn't by the time I realize he's not coming back I won't care any more because I have moved on."

Ok, I get that. That's one option, yes. But like I said, that ends in divorce.

I'm not talking about staying in Plan A forever. I'm talking about giving it another 3 - 4 weeks and once I catch them again -- which now seems inevitable going by what everyone is saying here because like I said, he's NOT going to agree to work from home and never deal with another woman again because that is unrealistic and it certainly wouldn't come to be in 3 - 4 weeks -- then at that point I move on to Plan B which = eventual divorce.

Once again, please explain (not directed at you indiegirl - just in general) how I have that wrong and how that means I am not serious about my marriage and how that is not the point that I am right now - out of other options?



Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)

3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos


Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]

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