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[quote=MelodyLane]
The reason why I think I should act like none of it bothers me is because from my understanding, the point of Plan A is show the WS what he can expect if he stays in the marriage, that you are a fabulous person to be with, what he'd be missing out on if he leaves, and to basically help restore some of the love that went away. I understand that Plan A alone is not meant to make WS fall back in love with you.
Therefore, if I am this needy, clingy, untrusting, insecure, controlling and suffocating woman - why would he want to come back to that? You know - calling him to make sure he is where he says he is, calling to see why he is running late (he is usually very good about this on his own which is why I perked right up when he wasn't last week) asking where he is going and how long he will be, etc etc. All I will add to the excellent advce is that a fabulous person insists on being treated well. Cool, calm, loving - but most certainly FIRM. It is not needy or controlling to say: 'Do not hurt me, Do not be thoughtless, make me feel safe with you'. It is needy to be AFRAID of saying such a thing. Plan A empowers you to do so. You take care of his needs - but you say clearly that you will expect yours met at some point, I know because I have been where you are now. Unable to ask for basic care from my spouse. It is because you have been putting up with such abusive behaviour for so long that you are losing yor own confidence. Plan A will need to end for you soon for your own wellbeing. You will rediscover yourself in Plan B. Plan B is like - WOW! Guess what, I am still incredible! Why did I believe him when he said I was not?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[thought of ways, you are right, it's not impossible I just think it's unfair to my kids. I don't see them for 9 hours and then to have a stranger pick them up after-after school and watch them for another 3 hrs just so my husband doesn't cheat and I keep my sanity seems...well you know. What is unfair for your children is for their parents marriage to fail. But if that doesn't work, then I would suggest he give up his second job. It is not worth your marriage. I would find a WAY around this that protects your marriage FIRST. THAT is in your children's best interest.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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How are you doing PoM? Stay strong, remember
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Hi Indiegirl - thanks for checking on me... I wanted to take a break from posting but I'm here as you can see lol All I will add to the excellent advce is that a fabulous person insists on being treated well. Cool, calm, loving - but most certainly FIRM. This struck a cord with me. Something has clicked and I feel stronger today. Gotta stay on THIS track  What is unfair for your children is for their parents marriage to fail. I totally agree. I will post how last night and today went later on... Thank you so much for all your input and help. I'm off to search more about Plan Aing.
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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This struck a cord with me. Something has clicked and I feel stronger today. Gotta stay on THIS track Its great isnt it? Like learning to ride a bike without training wheels or how to put on mascara without poking yourself in the eye. One day you just get it. The whole time you were so close to the right balance - and yet so far.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Its great isnt it? Like learning to ride a bike without training wheels or how to put on mascara without poking yourself in the eye. One day you just get it. The whole time you were so close to the right balance - and yet so far. YUP! It is!! Ok so I think I need him to confess to Tues and Wed night's meetings. I literally am losing sleep over it. Something struck me last night at 2am...tues was when I found out about OW#2...he may very well be telling the truth and did NOT meet up with OW#1 - maybe he met up with OW#2!!! Anyway, I have the hard evidence but I don't want to give away how I know he was there. How do I get him to confess? I tried telling him I had a friend follow him but he's not buying it. Should I press that angle? Where we are right now: -Monday he came home and I was a wreck b/c the tracker wasn't working. He was being nice...we talked alot because HE brought it up which is never the way it goes. BUT...all he did was minimize like crazy again. I stayed very calm and just listened and explained firmly that I don't care how much he wanted to minimize it - it hurt me very badly and he had to understand that. He blew off all his slip ups as "not counting" except for Thurs night when I caught him in the parking lot. - he continued to promise that it would never happen again, admitted to me that he thought about going physical with her but wouldn't do it because of "my condition" and that he told her that too. I felt like I was being given tons of BS the entire time and I just sat there trying to figure out why. Tues - he called me about a dozen times - all day checking in on me, letting me know exactly where he was going and what he was doing. For his after work job he told me all the details, called me and stayed on the phone with me while he was driving there until he got there. Called right when he was done and came straight home.
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Ok so I think I need him to confess to Tues and Wed night's meetings. I literally am losing sleep over it. Something struck me last night at 2am...tues was when I found out about OW#2...he may very well be telling the truth and did NOT meet up with OW#1 - maybe he met up with OW#2!!!
Anyway, I have the hard evidence but I don't want to give away how I know he was there. How do I get him to confess? I tried telling him I had a friend follow him but he's not buying it. Should I press that angle?
Where we are right now:
-Monday he came home and I was a wreck b/c the tracker wasn't working. He was being nice...we talked alot because HE brought it up which is never the way it goes. BUT...all he did was minimize like crazy again. I stayed very calm and just listened and explained firmly that I don't care how much he wanted to minimize it - it hurt me very badly and he had to understand that. He blew off all his slip ups as "not counting" except for Thurs night when I caught him in the parking lot.
- he continued to promise that it would never happen again, admitted to me that he thought about going physical with her but wouldn't do it because of "my condition" and that he told her that too.
I felt like I was being given tons of BS the entire time and I just sat there trying to figure out why. Hes a wayward. Everything out of his mouth is guaranteed to be nonsense. I am not sure why you are having little chats with him at all as all you will get is BS. I would write out the conditions for recovery - the most important one being to begin NC with OW The AftermathWhen things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch. First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair. Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers." Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA] Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won’t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested: 1. end all contact with the OM for life 2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle 3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc 4. no more opposite sex friendships 5. complete honesty about her affair<s> – passing a polygraph 6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage. As he is a serial cheat I would add in MB counselling and the condition he gets a job which does not bring him into any contact with women Its a yes or no conversation. You dont sit down and talk it out with him - you tell him what will happen if he does not get in line with your condtions. Divorce, a nasty one. If you get fog babble like he wont go phsyical because of 'your condition' reverse fog babble with 'yes it is very wrong, and compeltely disgusting for people in the married condition to commit adultery. I am glad you see that now.' Forgive me for forgetting but where did you get up to with exposure and OWH? Do you have a way to communicate with him so both of you can keep an eye on the APs? Exposure to the workplace done? Dont expect conversations to make sense. Do not get drips and drabs of confessions for him - you can get the full story from the poly and will not accept any 'stories' or 'promises' Do not accept part-tme recovery - like his being transparant one Tuesday, to mean the same as full time recovery - which would see him meet ALL the conditions for recovery as you have outlined.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Anyway, I have the hard evidence but I don't want to give away how I know he was there. How do I get him to confess? I tried telling him I had a friend follow him but he's not buying it. Should I press that angle? Tell him that you know. You don't need to tell him HOW you know, just that you do. Describe exactly how his car was parked, or how close it was to a fire hydrant, or whatever you can think of that will drive home the point that you know. If he still balks and tries to lie, ask him if he would be willing to take a polygraph test.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I wasn't looking to talk on Monday night. He was the one babbling and yes it was all fog babble. I just kind of sat there listening to it all and knowing it babble. You are right, none of it made sense.
All of my conditions have been clearly outlined. At the end of his fog babble on Monday night I kind of ignored all the BS and said something like "Yeah well, back to what the point is here - the only way this is going to work is if x,y, and z"
Exposure: I can contact OWH whenever I want but I have chosen not to for the time being. I exposed in the workplace weeks ago (as far as I can without getting myself in deep [censored]) Exposed to targeted family and friends.
As for knowing his whereabouts those two nights - I did tell him I just *knew*...he denies, denies, denies. But I can tell he's worried. He keeps bringing it up when I don't. He tries to reverse it on me - yesterday I went to the gym during lunch as I always do and he called me cause I got back late and interrogated me and told me he "knew" I WASN'T at the gym. Trying to play games.
I don't have many other details other than he was at that location for a brief period of time those two evenings. Maybe if I try to reconstruct timelines I can get something...
Polygraph...he laughs and says sure he'll take one. He claims he knows how to beat a polygraph and has done so in the past. Yes folks, this is what we are dealing with here.
Is there anyway to know if he is in withdrawal? I noticed when there was no contact for days at a time he would do searches on his computer for things like "heartbreak songs". What I see now is him trying harder with me but I don't see signs of withdrawal. I see he is a little uncomfortable with the stronger me.
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Polygraph...he laughs and says sure he'll take one. He claims he knows how to beat a polygraph and has done so in the past. Yes folks, this is what we are dealing with here. When empathy ought to be in play .... this is the crap your WH pulls. Sad. Is there anyway to know if he is in withdrawal? He's not. He's in "I can outsmart you" mode. Question:When was the last time WH showed interest/caring in your emotional well-being?
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- he continued to promise that it would never happen again, admitted to me that he thought about going physical with her but wouldn't do it because of "my condition" and that he told her that too. He's lying.
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- he continued to promise that it would never happen again, admitted to me that he thought about going physical with her but wouldn't do it because of "my condition" and that he told her that too. He's lying. I know. I know. I know. BUT I blame myself for Tues & Wed night. I know I shouldn't but I do. I didn't expose properly, pushed them underground, forced the in person meetings. It probably didn't go physical until then. Now I am positive it did. Tues was the first meeting like that (of course that I know of) - wednesday morning he was soooo remorseful and repentant and calling himself a monster,etc. Yet wednesday night tracking shows he was there again. And then again on Thurs when I caught him. This is going to eat me up. He has to confess. I don't want to give away my snooping sources though. I can't move forward without knowing what I'm moving forward from. What if I send him an email so he can't try to manipulate me into giving up my sources of info? I think I'm going to schedule a polygraph.
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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All of my conditions have been clearly outlined. At the end of his fog babble on Monday night I kind of ignored all the BS and said something like "Yeah well, back to what the point is here - the only way this is going to work is if x,y, and z"
Exposure: I can contact OWH whenever I want but I have chosen not to for the time being. I exposed in the workplace weeks ago (as far as I can without getting myself in deep [censored]) Exposed to targeted family and friends. Where does any of this address the problem? He still works with the OW. He still has a job and a lifestyle that enables him to have affairs. I am confused. He still works with TWO OW and he still has the type of job where he is free to chase women. Nothing will change............until that changes. And what do you mean by exposure to the OWH? You already did that.... So what would you be exposing to him?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok so I think I need him to confess to Tues and Wed night's meetings. I literally am losing sleep over it. Something struck me last night at 2am...tues was when I found out about OW#2...he may very well be telling the truth and did NOT meet up with OW#1 - maybe he met up with OW#2!!!
Anyway, I have the hard evidence but I don't want to give away how I know he was there. How do I get him to confess? I tried telling him I had a friend follow him but he's not buying it. Should I press that angle? You need to call the OWH up today and give him your evidence. Stop playing games, POM, and get serious. Tell your husband you know and STOP ASKING HIM. WHO CARES if your husband confesses? You don't need the confession of a liar to know the truth. Playing cat and mouse games is WEAK. You can't afford to be weak. You have to be strong decisive and straightforward. Expose the affair to the OWH, expose the affair to your workplace, and tell your husband he has to leave that job. In order to stay married to you he is going to have to find a job where he is not working around women.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The above is not within your scope of power/control. He's not going to confess. If he does confess, it will be in a very minimal way. Admit to one thing in order to deny something else. You need to concentrate your efforts on things which you have the power/control to do. Such as ....... Are you preparing for Plan B?
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[
BUT I blame myself for Tues & Wed night. I know I shouldn't but I do. I didn't expose properly, pushed them underground, forced the in person meetings. It probably didn't go physical until then. Now I am positive it did. That is irrational. You are so used to being gaslighted that this seems rational to you. Exposing an affair does not make someone commit adultery. If your H was faithful, nothing could push him to be an adulterer.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Are you preparing for Plan B? Yes. That is what I am using this "calm" time for. Getting my ducks in a row. Where does any of this address the problem? Because he has conceded that if it HAD gone physical HE WOULD make the job change. So the fact that he's keeping up the game that it never went physical means he gets to stay where he is, working with her. Is it possible - please hear me out - that Thursday night and me exposing to the OWH WAS the turning point and NOW it's really done? I've seen alot of people on here that knew about a WS's EA then months later found out it was a PA because the WS confesses. How does that happen? After being in recovery for awhile and the guilt brings it out?
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Is it possible - please hear me out - that Thursday night and me exposing to the OWH WAS the turning point and NOW it's really done? Done? Exactly what do you mean?
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I've seen alot of people on here that knew about a WS's EA then months later found out it was a PA because the WS confesses. How does that happen? After being in recovery for awhile and the guilt brings it out? Right after D day, my H knew he was caught in an EA and thought he could get away with "It was only an EA." He would have said at the time "I was trying to spare you more pain." <~~~ They ALL say that. I would say "You're lying again." Then, I'd wait. He'd talk some more crap ... I'd repeat "Stop lying." The revealing was sort of in this sequence: We're just friends. We talked about getting physical but never did. We just kissed. We petted. We had intercourse one time. We had intercourse. She never gave me oral. She gave me oral. I never gave her oral. I gave her oral. etc etc etc Does the guilt bring out the truth?
I don't think so.
I think exhaustion and fatigue brings out the truth.
They can't keep their lies in order.You ask about being in recovery bringing out the truth .... If you do not know the truth, you are NOT in recovery. It's that simple.
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