This is crazy talk. I don't even know where to start. We are telling you how to recover and you are not listening.

Call up the OWH and tell him about the affair. Then tell your H has to leave the job. Stop asking him if he is having an affair and tell him you know. No one cares if a liar confesses the truth. You already know the truth.

call his bluff and do it.

He cannot beat it.

You need to do some research and find a good poly tech. Find one that it certified with the state, or nationaly. One with lots of experience in the area of infidellity.

Here in Texas it cost about $150, so it is well worth the money.

The tech we used asked my FWH, before the test, if he had researched information on how to beat a polygraph, or if he thinks it is possible to beat a poly. He did this so my H would "be thinking" about it.....

It's a lot of "psychological" conditioning before the test. The tech asked all the questions before he ever hooked him up, with me in the room.

Your WH may have taken a poly for a job requirement, this is completely different. Maybe he could beat that one, but not one like you are requesting.

It took me 5 months to get up the nerve to do it. My FWH trickle truthed the whole time, right up to the day of the test. He even confessed some things sitting in the chair right before the test!

Everything your WH is saying is typical. We have all heard it before. Save yourself the mental anquish and just do the test.

Please, show us the draft of your Plan B letter.
Often the first draft is better after some tweaking.

Haven't gotten to the letter yet. Have started drafting it in my head.

Melody - I HAVE exposed to the OWH. I have exposed at work to the extent that I can without risking my own job.

I was talking over the legal issues today with informed people today. I cannot physically lock him out of the house. Like I said, this is a VERY delicate work situation, highly political, law enforcement related. I cannot give more specifics. Suffice it to say that due to our jobs we both know our way around the family courts VERY well. If I play the system, he knows how to play it too. If I call in my favors, he's got his that he can call in. I have to be one step ahead of him there and that takes time to work out.

Anyway, I've been advised by an attorney not to leave the house or remove the children from the house. It will cause me huge problems with custody later on if it goes there. So that's out. I am in a serious pickle with Plan B that I am trying to figure out how to work out. Again, has to do with where we work and our positions. Even the attorney said I am stuck between a rock and hard place and I have to be VERY careful with my next move. WH knows that. I am very limited in what I can do.

I have very few options in terms of the living situation EVEN if I file for divorce.

Why have you chosen NOT to utilize your best exposure target? OWH needs to know that this has gone physical and that his wife may become pregnant by your husband. He's not in withdrawal if there is any contact. So you can be sure that he is currently NOT in withdrawal.

Lets see what your head has so far.

Give it up.

Exactly which 'ducks' of Plan B have you done?

This makes no sense. I've never heard of a job that has the power to force two divorced people to live together. Which, of course, is where you're headed if you continue on your current path.

Have you retained an attorney? I mean one who is actually worth his salt and who isn't just giving free advice to a friend?

Exactly my sentiments, Bliss.

I do know the truth. I know he met with either her or OW#2 on Tues and Wed night. I assume he has had at least one physical affair at this point with at least one of these two women if not both. What more do I need to know? That it was intercourse? Why? I got tested anyway. I may just as well assume it was because he will NEVER admit it so other than a polygraph I have nothing. And once the polygraph says yes, I only have confirmation of what I already assume. So I have to move forward at this point with the assumption that:

the affair has gone physical with OW#1 and/or OW#2


As you all have said, he will probably never admit it. So I have to set forth new conditions and extraordinary precautions that must be taken in order to make me feel safe in the marriage and prevent these things from happening again. I can't get him to agree to those things with either going into Plan B or the polygraph.

Sorry if it seems like I went in a circle here. Clarity and a little more control over my emotions has only come to me very recently. Remember that I am pregnant and therefore very hormonal and emotional.

...and very deserving of a husband who will cherish you and treat you like a princess. Instead of one who wants to play "gotcha" games and hide his true self from you.

Sadly, POM, I think you have the type of wayward that needs to really start feeling some consequences. To me, from what you write, he just oozes smugness.

That is a particularly disturbing quality in a wayward.

From much earlier in this thread. I cannot agree with the above more.

Unless your WH has a complete change of heart, he IS going to keep hurting you.

He is a deceiver, manipulator and gaslighter and I don't see any indication that he is going to change. Like Mr Wondering indicates, I think Plan B may be your only chance.

Plan B is NOT easy, but MANY MANY posters have done it and so can you, if you were really commited to it.

If you want Plan B help, I will come back and help you.

You do not know the whole truth. You know what little bits he is giving you.




O&H is one of your EP's. If he will not tell you the truth, then he is NOT following the EP's that require him to stay in the marriage.

1. Make out your list of questions regarding the A's that you want to know.

2. tell him he has to be O&H (one of the EP's) for you to feel safe.

3. tell him there are consequences for lying. If he is lying (proven through poly) then you go to plan B or file.

We know that, sweetie. No one is beating you up - our concern is that a schmuck adulterous husband is mistreating his poor, hormonal pregnant wife! The advice we're giving you is as members of your tag-team - we know your emotions can sometimes scatter when you're pregnant and we're ready to do the clear-thinking for you. That's why we're trying to earnestly tell you what you need to do to ensure your best chance at saving your M.

I suspect your little mister is going to dodge the truth until he sees there's no out-running it. I would be ready to set up a poly, and make one of your conditions be that he agrees to future polys at a moment's notice.

Thank you everyone for your continued input and help. I don't know where I'd be without your input right now but it would be in a much worse place for sure with no hope in sight.

Anyway... I just needed a break from all the intensity of emotions.

To answer some questions:

When I said I knew the truth I meant I knew by my hard evidence, not by what he tells me. I know not to believe a word he says. Yes, he's a liar and I know by the way he grabbed my face and looked into my eyes and very firmly said "IT NEVER WENT PHYSICAL!" that it absolutely did. Because he did the EXACT same thing 3 months ago when (before D-Day) I flat out asked him if there was someone else. That was as good as a confession to me. Now...polygraph? That's just how much detail do I want, and I don't want any. I've decided to move on with the assumption that it was physical, they probably slept together, and I've therefore been tested for STDs. Do I want to know how many times they did it and what motel they went to? NO. I've made it clear to him that I do not believe his lie that it didn't go physical.

I also confronted him about OW#2 (no details of what I knew) and told him to cut it off, whatever the hell it was with no explanation to her or anything else. I told him if I ever found out he was in communication with her again it was as good as if it was with OW#1 and we are done.

I got very little resistance to that. Not sure what that means but whatever.

As far as Plan B - changing the locks might work on some WS's that have no idea of their rights but suffice it to say that due to our highly political, law enforcement related jobs, we have access to all the family law info we need (and just because it's free doesn't mean it's incorrect). Its illegal to change the locks, I cannot kick him out like that. I know the steps I'd have to take and unfortunately that's not one them. An attorney has also advised me that I should not leave the home. If I can get him to agree to leave, great, if not I have to file.

So THAT will have to be my plan B. I will try to get him to leave but I know he won't. He's already made that clear. I can either get him to move out of the bedroom or I will and take the spare room. He'll get his letters and then I have to wait until I can physically leave or have the court remove him.

And while I agree that he oozes smugness and that he may only hit rock bottom when he has to spend the night in someone's basement - that's not going to happen here - he knows his rights and he will exercise them. Hitting bottom for him will be me filing.

That said... he has shown a lot of big improvements. Not a total change of heart like is going to be required but a lot of improvement. Me catching them that night and exposing to the OWH immediately what I had found was a big turning point. That much I know.

Total transparency, like I said. Forthcoming with all information about his whereabouts. He calls me dozens of times a day to let me know what's going on, where he is, etc. On Friday he was a minute late leaving work and called me, and stayed on the phone with me so that I knew he was actually leaving when he said he would. And lots more similar things...voluntarily.

So the past three or four days have been ok. But... what's missing is still repentance and remorse... not entirely, there is some there, just not as much as I would think there should be. Am I expecting too much? All I'm asking for is to feel like he cares about my feelings in this but I attribute his lack of care to the fact that he is not in love with me right now.

Also his willingness to spend the time required (15+ hours per week) is not there. I'm still getting the whole "back off a little" crap. He doesn't get that I am so done here that "back off a little" is THISCLOSE to getting him an answer of "f***off, I'm going to file".

It's not that we don't spend the time together, it's that it's not doing the things we should be doing - making an effort to reconnect. Watching TV on separate couches is NOT reconnecting.

Also - when does the horrible stuff (D-day, the words in the emails, finding his car in the parking lot, etc ) stop replaying over and over in your head? Is it better to just let it play out over and over again to desensitize myself to it or try to get my mind off of it by doing other things?

That is not Plan B. That is Plan "C", [for compromise] which is much more likely to lead to divorce. It completely defeats the purpose of Plan B and makes the situation worse. Start off by asking him to leave. Over and over again. If he won't do that, then file for divorce and get him legally removed. Once he is out, THEN you can go into Plan B.

A half-baked Plan B is worse than none at all. If you can't do a proper Plan B, don't harm yourself by attempting your version of it.

I'm sure he's quite happy. He's got you right where he wants you and his world's looking pretty rosy.

He's not remorseful because he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. And you're tacitly agreeing with him by showing him for there are no consequences for his behavior.

POM, it's very clear that you have no intention of following the plans here, and I'm sorry for that. I won't post to your thread again because I'd be beating my head against a wall and there are too many others coming here daily who will use the help. I don't want to be mean, but I don't want to waste your time either. You'd be wasting your time reading my posts if you're not interested in following the plans.

Good luck.

That isnt even remotely close to Plan B. Plan B means separating homes, never seeing each other in any way, no communicating in any way. People arent even allowed to tell me things about my WH, I have no idea what's going on in his life or even where he is living. Moving into the spare room is totally inadequate. Wait until you can Plan B before you attempt it.

If legal advice says you have to file first, then file. Concentrate on getting your ducks in a row for Plan B.

I understand that the MB path to recovery is very straight and narrow so I'm trying to figure out where I am and how to proceed at this point and if I can even do it at this point.

Where we are right now:

I know that b/c he still works with her technically the A is not considered over according to the MB plan even if there has been NC for 11 days now (by my calculations and investigating). We should have word by the end of next week where post-election moves have settled everyone. If they remain in the same building, that's not likely to change for awhile unless my WH can successfully be transferred and that can take months as well.

I also understand that most of you feel he should not work with women at all anyway. That is not going to happen so I understand that that probably kicks us out of the MB program as well. I need to find a path that does not involve that as it is impractical and unrealistic.

I have exposed to target family, the OWH, and at work (to the extent that I can without risking my own job).

He has agreed to recommit to me & our family, to try to regain what we lost. He has agreed to NC, total transparency, and has taken lots of steps to show me that he is trying to rebuild my trust in him, making me feel safe in the marriage, etc. He has shown remorse and taken responsibility (but not as much I would like or expect)

I am doing Plan A - showing a willingness to meet the needs I wasn't meeting before while focusing on meeting the intimate ENs (conversation, affection, SF, & RC). All while working on becoming a better person for ME.

In terms of Plan B:

He understands that if NC is broken, we are done. That is, I go into Plan B. Going by what I've learned here, b/c they work together it is inevitable that he will break NC. I read MF's thread on how to Plan B properly. Because I have a baby on the way in 7 weeks and because I have been advised by an atty, I am not moving out. He would have to move out. He will not b/c we work in a law enforcement related field and he knows his rights, so I cannot just change the locks. I can try to ask him to leave over and over as was suggested out but I know that he won't leave and I have been told that a sloppy plan b is worse so not quite sure what to do there. That's where I'm stuck on what to do next.

I can file at that point but that is not Plan B - it is plan D. Sooo...there is no plan b for me? If I end up having to file within the next few weeks I have already decided that it is ridiculous for ME to be the one to move out with a newborn when HE is the one who had the affair. I'm not going anywhere and neither are my kids so that's when it will get messy.

As far as truth is concerned: I have decided to move forward without the poly. Has everyone here who recovered gone through the poly? Just curious. I don't want the gory details. I personally believe that it went physical and I don't believe anything he says, only what I have proof of. Someone on this thread said that *I* determine how much I want to know and I have made that determination. Yet it seems like many here believe I am not being cooperative and stand no chance at recovery unless I force the poly issue.

So that's where I am right now. Definitely not the straight and narrow MB path so I'm sure many of you are going to quit on me. I understand. I've been going back and reading other threads and going over the concepts waiting for SAA to arrive. Is this a book I should give him to read too?

Since maritalbliss isn't coming back, can anyone explain what she meant by this:

POM, it is not our "feelings" that he should not work with women, and most especially his previous OW, but a matter of fact. But you already know that. We are all posters just like you and have no power to "kick you out of the MB program."

It is your marriage to manage as you see fit, but unfortunately, the path you outline here won't lead to recovery. Recovery is impossible as long as he continues to work with his OW and he does nothing to change the environment that led to his multiple affairs.

You don't have to please us, POM. It is your marriage, not ours. If you don't take the neccessary steps to recover your marriage, that is your prerogative.