Welcome to the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum
This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
It seems like every other post from newbie BSs on this forum seems to contain the phrase 'My WS says....'
This is ok (ish), except when followed by the fatal 'I do believe him/her'
The worst ones then follow up with a desire to 'trust'.
I therefore submit a golden rule.......
NEVER TAKE THE WORD OF A WAYWARD. IF THEY SAY THE SKY IS BLUE -LOOK UP TO CHECK. IT SOUNDS TRUE BUT IT IS PROBABLY RAINING.
Now everyone of us has been there, been gaslighted, been lied to very convincingly by people who we love and know to have honest and upstanding pasts. (oh yes, it's not just yours!)
That goes out of the window when they become addicts however.
A truly repentent wayward will jump through hoops to prove themselves with actions like an NC letter or a polygraph.
Words are just too inadequate and they know that.
Here is my top ten of things waywards lie about
2)It was a PA, but we only did it once/oral/kissing I minimimize what I am ashamed of, though there is no logic in doing so. 3)It is your fault for not meeting my ENs This makes me feel less guilty about my non existent boundaries with the opposite sex 4)Our marriage has been miserable for years This makes me feel less guilty about my non existent boundaries with the opposite sex 5)I do not love you - I love the OP I have betrayed my morals and everything I once believed in. I must love the OP - or else I am just stupid for risking so much. Actually I am just greedy and stupid. Dont tell anyone. 6)I want a divorce But I will not bother filing. This is an idle threat to scare you into submission. 7) She/he is just a friend That I value more than your discomfort with their presence. 8) I need privacy, that's all So I can cheat on you 9) I dont need an NC letter because there is no contact Please dont make me give up my cake 10)You are jealous/controlling/demanding You are getting really warm and I dont like it.
Wow...I've heard all of these...
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
Wow, does that hit home. Not all our on my list but, in some ways most are. To sum it all up, it is all your fault and drop it so I don't have to worry about the guilt I should feel.
Me BH previous user name SEM WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling Married 16 years - HS sweethearts 2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA DDay #2 11/27/11
I think its also important to keep in mind that aside from outright lies, lots of BSs get half truths or hidden truths.
I knew there was something wrong in my marriage when my child-crazy h told me he know longer wanted kids. No reason. Just changed his mind that's all.
My reaction to this was to say 'you're lying'. Even though I had never said those words before to the man I trusted implicitly, I knew that such a dramatic change of heart didnt 'just happen'.
So he said: 'Why would I lie? This is hard for me to say. I risk losing a lovely wife, home and life."
Because I knew (instinctively and logically) that the latter statement was true, it made me doubt my gut instinct about the lie.
After that, whenever he told me our marriage problems were due to the kids issue, (rather than the secret affair) I believed him.
Lots of waywards use something that is clearly true to cover up something you suspect is a lie.
Such as:
Its stupid to dip your pen into the company ink (true) So I would never do it! (false)
She is nowhere near as pretty and smart as you! (true) I would never look twice at someone that desperate (false)
I love you (true) so you should trust that that is enough (false)
Havent I always been honest up to now? (true) and I am just as honest still (false)
Im here because I want to be here (true) I dont want to be anywhere else (false)
Thanks Pep. And who did I learn this from? All the wonderful MBers on here.
I kid you not, I thought everyone on these boards was crazy when I turned up here. My husband would never cheat on me!
But everything you said would happen/ was happening turned out to be true. The script he gave me was predicted down to the letter. It isnt a hard one to learn and to pay forward to other BSs.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
I think its also important to keep in mind that aside from outright lies, lots of BSs get half truths or hidden truths.
I knew there was something wrong in my marriage when my child-crazy h told me he know longer wanted kids. No reason. Just changed his mind that's all.
My reaction to this was to say 'you're lying'. Even though I had never said those words before to the man I trusted implicitly, I knew that such a dramatic change of heart didnt 'just happen'.
So he said: 'Why would I lie? This is hard for me to say. I risk losing a lovely wife, home and life."
Because I knew (instinctively and logically) that the latter statement was true, it made me doubt my gut instinct about the lie.
After that, whenever he told me our marriage problems were due to the kids issue, (rather than the secret affair) I believed him.
Lots of waywards use something that is clearly true to cover up something you suspect is a lie.
Such as:
Its stupid to dip your pen into the company ink (true) So I would never do it! (false)
She is nowhere near as pretty and smart as you! (true) I would never look twice at someone that desperate (false)
I love you (true) so you should trust that that is enough (false)
Havent I always been honest up to now? (true) and I am just as honest still (false)
Im here because I want to be here (true) I dont want to be anywhere else (false)
and so on.................
This is the art of gaslighting..
I have highlighted this for you quo, because your husband once risked his job for an affair. Now you think he will not do it again - because he says so.
sorry but addictions dont work that way.
We have had military waywards on here disobey direct orders to halt their affair. They have risked being court martialled. Listen to people who have hear this script many times before.
Last edited by indiegirl; 12/02/1103:24 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
I think its also important to keep in mind that aside from outright lies, lots of BSs get half truths or hidden truths.
I knew there was something wrong in my marriage when my child-crazy h told me he know longer wanted kids. No reason. Just changed his mind that's all.
My reaction to this was to say 'you're lying'. Even though I had never said those words before to the man I trusted implicitly, I knew that such a dramatic change of heart didnt 'just happen'.
So he said: 'Why would I lie? This is hard for me to say. I risk losing a lovely wife, home and life."
Because I knew (instinctively and logically) that the latter statement was true, it made me doubt my gut instinct about the lie.
After that, whenever he told me our marriage problems were due to the kids issue, (rather than the secret affair) I believed him.
Lots of waywards use something that is clearly true to cover up something you suspect is a lie.
Such as:
Its stupid to dip your pen into the company ink (true) So I would never do it! (false)
She is nowhere near as pretty and smart as you! (true) I would never look twice at someone that desperate (false)
I love you (true) so you should trust that that is enough (false)
Havent I always been honest up to now? (true) and I am just as honest still (false)
Im here because I want to be here (true) I dont want to be anywhere else (false)
NEVER TAKE THE WORD OF A WAYWARD. IF THEY SAY THE SKY IS BLUE -LOOK UP TO CHECK. IT SOUNDS TRUE BUT IT IS PROBABLY RAINING.
Other wayward liar tools of the trade.
Diversion & Distraction & Detour.
Not answering the question.
Are you having an affair?A yes or a no, thank you.
What? I would never do something like that. What makes you ask me that? I thought we trusted each other. Are you on your period? What's wrong with you? Are you back on that again? I love you.
When you ask your wayward ayes or no question. Insist on a yes or no answer. Do not get distracted/detoured diverted.
Who were you with last night?
I was playing pool.
When you ask your wayward a 'who'question and you get a 'where'response, repeat the question until you get a 'who' response.
Be very target savvy when asking your wayward questions.
If you ask a vague question such as:"What were you doing?" ... you will get a creative wayward response. They can respond without (exactly) lying. Such as "I went for a drive." Or, "I was thinking things over."
It's better to ask "yes or no" questions.
If you want to know "where", then ask about a specific location. "Were you at the pool parlor last night?" This is especially helpful if you have a GPS on their vehicle and you already know where they were. You already know they never went near the pool parlor.
If you ask a vague question such as:"What were you doing?" ... you will get a creative wayward response. They can respond without (exactly) lying. Such as "I went for a drive." Or, "I was thinking things over."
Good one, Pep. Unfortunately too many BSs get gaslighted into believing they are 'needy' 'clingy' or 'insecure'. The ENTIRE point of making someone believe this, is so that they get too scared to ask direct questions.
Ill put my hand up here and admit that I did ask this question
Originally Posted by Pepperband
[Who were you with last night?
and ACCEPTED this as a response
Originally Posted by Pepperband
I was playing pool.
When you know better - you do better!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
