Be very clear about the fact that you are going SOON because he isnt trying hard enough. Hit that Plan A stick

Be sorrowful FOR him, as though you think he's going to be really lonely and sad, but say you owe it to yourself and the baby not to have a better life than that. Repetitively tell him he can make things BETTER FOR HIMSELF whenever he wants.

indie, you crack me up, girl. But you make a good point - your love bank was pretty much depleted.

I love the way you think Im kidding....

Pieces,

Dr. Harley says that being betrayed causes WORSE trauma and stress than rape or death.

Even under the best conditions women should only Plan A for a few weeks.

In YOUR condition there is NO WAY you should live with a snarky, smug unrepentant cheater.

Does his mommy live close? I love that suggestion that you call her for assistance.

Ok...here is my current plan - tell me what you think:

-Next week he will be home all week with our son, no work, so it's alot easier for me to relax a little, verify NC, and continue to Plan A properly (as long as we make it through tomorrow without incident - how sad that this is a day by day thing); plus we'll be spending alot of time together

-then he goes back to work for 4 days. During those 4 days I will be able to implement conditions that will allow me to verify whether or not he is carrying on the A at work. If it IS still going on, I will certainly catch something during those 4 days.

When those 4 days are up, then comes the weekend and then he goes on a business trip out of town (he'll be under my Mom's nose the entire time, no worries there). The day he leaves is the first day I'll be able to verify any intel acquired during that previous week. If I find NC has been broken, it will be very easy to go into Plan B at that point because he will be out of the state.

During this time, final results of election related moves & transfers will be known and we will know where everyone is settling.

I will proceed with the following during the time he is away:

- I will pack his stuff (most of which he'll already have packed with him anyway)
- write him his letters/send as emails and not speak to him at all, use my mom as the IM since he'll be staying with her
- Tell the OWH whatever it was that I found and open up communication with him again
- Go see my Dr and see if I can be taken out of work earlier so I can't lose my job
- Write a letter to the bosses to expose the A to them
- Expose to his mother (I know, I know should've done that already)
- In the letter I will tell him that he must agree to the following conditions in order to come home:
-write a NC letter
-submit to a polygraph
-agree to follow the MB program
-absolutely MUST transfer at work

If he does not agree to those conditions before getting on the plane to come home, I will file for divorce and start proceedings to have him removed from the house.

*I* am pregnant and about to deliver a baby, *I* did NOT have a an affair so *I* am not going anywhere.


The other factors:
-His attitude: there are moments that I see true remorse and lots of effort... those become more frequent the less I talk about the A and more time we spend together. For example, on weekends - we usually do pretty well and his attitude is MUCH better...come Monday morning... I get my wayward husband back. Hmmm...no coincidence there, right?

This is why I think that combined with the long break from work (aka OW) and us spending lots more time together, I may be able to see if my real husband has a chance of coming back. Since I'll be able to Plan A properly, that gives us a better chance there too and I'll know that I've done all I could have up to this point.

-What if NC is broken before then? Well, same plan, just not as neat and easy to execute. I will have to file before I can get him out of the house and I won't have that nice built in "kicked out of the house" week (spent with MY mom no less!!) for him to feel the consequences of his actions

-What if NC is broken after he gets back and before a work transfer can be made? Same as above.

-What if NC is maintained but his attitude remains unremorseful and wayward? Well... that's where I get a little stuck.

That's what I have for now...

Pieces:

You seem to have every base covered. I admire your fortitude, especially while pregnant.

Waywards are such aliens! Who would DO that to his pregnant wife??!!?!?!?!?!?

Good luck with your plan,
Sweet Pea

This is what I have seen in person and from what I have seen here. This probably means that NC is not really in place, that contact is underground. Just a little heads up so you can think it through.

Which is why I'm pretty certain that I'll catch it. I'm pretty sure it's just underground too. I have to prove it though to get him to hit rock bottom and kick him out otherwise I look like the irrational psycho one for filing for divorce when "nothing is going on" - kwim?

I search for an affair phone everyday and like I said...I don't want to give away my methods but I will be able to ascertain broken NC within the next 17 days for sure. Not only because they will be forced to be away from the work situation and thus much easier to monitor, but because I will be able to check in on that work scenario.

Unless I continue to see a change in attitude, I'm fairly confident I'm going to find something and that's what I'm preparing for.

If he is unremorseful and wayward you will know he is not serious and should go ahead with your plan. Dr Harley says that unless a wayward husband is has his hat in hand and is showing true remorse, he is not serious. And you will also see how serious he is by his actions. If he is still wayward then you go forward with this plan. I cannot tell you how many WH's have thrown their BS's a crumb by ending their affair for a few days, weeks, just to shut her up. It is a death of a thousand cuts for the BS. You are better off being in Plan B if he is still acting wayward.

And of course, whether or not he still contacts the OW during this time does not negate the fact that he has to leave that job and find a career where he can be held accountable. If he goes off and gets the same kind of job, then this will happen again. The environment has to change..

Your husband is a playah who is out looking for action.

Also, you should tell his mother NOW. Why haven't you exposed his affairs?

Too many women think they have to have "proof" when the proof is in the cruelty of his behavior when he's home - he's attacking you verbally, traumatizing and stressing your body, which is carrying HIS CHILD!!! What more proof do you think you need?

This is not a remorseful husband in withdrawal, this is a currently wayward husband who thinks he has the upper hand and you have no choice but to take it!

Speed up the clock on your timeline to hours instead of days and weeks, and you have yourself a plan!

POM, Kayla is right, his attitude has not changed so I am unclear why you are waiting on this. You don't have to catch him contacting the OW to know that he is not remotely serious about committing to your marriage.

Don't bother verifying NC. It never started to begin with and you probably, deep down, know that.


Which OWH is this? OWH#1 or OWH#2? You must cover both as your WH is very likely seeing both of their wives.


Do this now, this minute. This is a huge chance for an ally and shouldn't be squandered. What about the rest of his family??


And with the above in mind, why are you so hesitant to change the locks and kick his butt out of the house? Picture the police showing up trying to figure out what has happened and why WH has called them. You, obviously pregnant and with two little ones in tow, tell the police that your husband is committing adultery with two other women, has been verbally abusive to you and so you want him out of the house for your own mental well-being.

Now, who do you think has more sympathy?

This is hard to read. You have more power than you think and are letting this guy get away with too much.

POM;

Melody Lane beat me to the punch -- you should expose to his mother immediately. Do you get together with his family for Christmas? Do they live nearby?

My son would get a good talking to if he did this to his pregnant wife. Tell her that you SAW these emails with your own eyes. Tell her what those emails said. Ask her for her help and support.

I like the rest of your plan. Very well thought out.
Nice job!

And did you ever put a VAR in his vehicle?
You would very likely catch some conversations going on that would be enlightening.

When you said you exposed to his family, who did you mean?
Who exactly did you expose to?

My son would be in BIG TROUBLE too. God help him if he ever behaved in such a low down trashy manner. I would also be on the phone with these skanks and their parents. It would not be pretty.

Thank you Sweet Pea.


This is true BUT it's not enough for him to hit rock bottom. He'll walk away thinking he's justified. I want to erase any and all logic in that.


I know...I read the False Recovery thread...months and months of NC and then back on again. Painful. The change has to be within him, not his environment (or not just his environment, I should say). There will always be women around. Yes you can reduce the likelihood but damn...if he wants to cheat that badly, I'm better off without him anyway, like you said. I don't want to be married to a man that I have to keep in a certain environment (like a gerbil in a cage LOL) just so he won't cheat. I'll never have any peace anyway.




Two main reasons:

1 - *I* don't feel ready to implement Plan B. I need to do it in a well thought out, deliberate manner so that I know I am not being ruled my emotions or hormones. Remember this man is totally not in love with me right now - so why stay? It's much easier to leave. The timing I've laid gives a chance for us to reconnect a little and for him to see what he'll be giving up.

2 - If Plan B has any hope of maybe not leading to an actual divorce, the only way will be by getting him to hit rock bottom. If I implement plan B without that - he'll just walk away feeling justified and he is. so. not.


And I DO see changes...his actions say the right thing but his words are still wayward. He has taken lots of steps to try to make me feel safe and try to begin to earn my trust back (for example: calling me constantly during the day at work and giving updates on everything going on; transparency on all email and phone, he tells me about every text he gets even when I don't ask - I am able to verify what he is telling me of course and he does not know that, he willingly and voluntarily accounts for all his time and whereabouts).

It's when we get into discussions/arguments that it comes out... the chain of events is always "you neglected me for 3 years which caused me to do what I did, therefore it's your fault". History is still being rewritten by him...

And of course...affection and concern for my feelings is lacking most of the time... not all the time, but a lot of the time. If he notices the slightest change in my mood, he's all over me "what's wrong, what is it" so there is concern there but it goes down the tubes when he starts rewriting history.

What are the signs of a remorseful WH in withdrawal? I'd like to compare...is there a thread I can read?

I'll reply to the rest of the questions in a bit...

Parents that do not condemn misbehavior by their children are not being PARENTS, they are wanting to be BUDDIES with their children...

The greatest love a PARENT can give his child is to love them enough to guide them through their life.

ENABLING AN ADULTERER IS NOT LOVING YOUR CHILD.

My own father STILL enables my brother by not condemning my brother's actions after he had an affair with my wife WHILE HIS OWN WIFE WAS PREGNANT which continues to affect my family...

BECAUSE...

My father's misguided view that loving his other son means tolerating all of his abusive behavior.

Jim

You are making a common mistake, a wrong assumption.

Plan B is not a ploy to change his behavior, to cause him to hit rock bottom. He will do what he wants. It is not a ploy to save your marriage, a tactic. It can lead to that, but that is not what it is.

Plan B is for you.

You need to STOP telling us how to recover. You don't know how to recover a marriage. We are in recovered marriages and YOU ARE NOT. So please take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth, young lady. Your best thinking has got you in this mess. You need to LISTEN and stop talking.


But you ARE married to such a man. That is my point. He is a serial cheater. So while you may not "want" to keep him in that environment [what you call a "cage"] is the ONLY solution to living with a serial cheater.

And you are missing the point entirely when you say that *YOU* would keep him in a cage. You don't have any such power. A person who is SERIOUS about changing his life would keep himself in a cage so he wouldn't slip. I am a recovering alcoholic with 26 years sobriety. My husband does not have to "keep me in a cage" because I OBSERVE APPROPRIATE BOUNDARIES. Not at the point of a gun. I do not go to bars, I don't hang out with drunks, I have CHANGED MY ENVIRONMENT SO I AM NOT TEMPTED. I do that for ME, not becuase my H has a gun to my head.

If you have to hold a gun to his head to get him to observe proper boundaries by CHANGING HIS ENVIRONMENT you have already lost. But for you, those should be your boundaries. You should not even consider staying married unless he takes point on this.

Will power does not work with addictions. So relying on will power with your serial cheater husband will not work.

You think you are going to change him from the inside and grant him some magic WILL POWER. That is silly and unrealistic. Will power did not stop him in the past and it won't stop him in the future. A person who is serious changes their own environment in order to lesson temptations.

Again, you are not listening to us. This is your own wrongheaded extrapolation. Please accept you don't know what you are doing and start listening.