You gotta do something. Make him have to change, either how things are or where he lives.

You are EXACTLY the same place you were, what, 6 weeks ago. And still you want to wait.

You got to help yourself.

I totally agree with Northwood and Kayla. He is still trying to make this all your fault and accept no responsibility. You need to provide him with some motivation here!

ALL waywards try to make it the spouse's fault that they "had" to cheat. Well, most do anyway. Don't let him get by with that for a second. You can accept your 50% responsibility in the state of the marriage, but he has just as much culpability here.

You asked me earlier about false recoveries and how to know. There's a great thread in the "In Recovery" section where people have shared their stories. Perhaps reading a few of those will help give you strength to shut this down now.

More "evidence" is not needed here, in my opinion. It's just delaying the inevitable.

Also... if you have not done so, perhaps you can direct OWH's here for guidance.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2513967#Post2513967

Here's the link to the False Recovery thread. As you will note, the biggest thing people wish they'd done is to be tougher with the boundaries and conditions for reconciliation. Another common thread is believing the cheating spouse when they should not have. This all falls under the umbrella of acting later rather than sooner being a common pitfall.

You dont need concrete proof - no one is trying to persuade CSI here.

You dont need to listen to him. In fact I would actively discourage it. Hes whining about the stab wound he inflicted. "PoM is too clingy then too distant -wahhhhhambulance" - typical wayward nonsense.

What you need is Plan B. You enable the affair like this.

Are you ready to do this? By doing whatever it takes?

Here's is what has changed and what hasn't since six weeks ago:
-he has now become transparent with his phone, phone records, emails, passwords, etc
-he has changed his gym schedule so he doesn't run into her there anymore (yeah, that was one I forgot to mention)
-he calls me at least 4 - 5 times per day as a kind of reassurance that nothing is going on (we used to always talk this much during the workday)
-he is accountable for all his time and whereabouts
-he has put in for a transfer (I want him to stay at this job because I can monitor him very well here)

What hasn't changed:
-they still work together
-he still seems to be in the fog and is not willing to spend the 15-20 hours a week of UA
- he has shown some repentance and remorse, but not enough

(Related Question: in SAA, Sue never apologized and was never really remorseful, and I've read countless times on here not to expect too much out of waywards in terms of remorse. Yet, all this talk about not going into a FR requires having a very remorseful spouse. So how much remorse is the right amount?)

We have not made any progress at all since 4 weeks ago though. And actually, one thing has declined significantly - SF. Not because of me, because of him. When this first came out I made damn sure I was meeting his SF needs. Over the last couple of weeks that has dropped to once or twice a week at best and he rejects me often. So I'm getting concerned. Then again, I am VERY pregnant now so I know that could be playing a role...

Anyway...I think Mon or Tues is going to be the day.

Is it less credible if the letter to HR is anonymous?

Yes. Those are typically ignored. You need to put your name and contact info on the letter.

Then has anything really changed?

Don't you see that the first thing, the no contact, is the only important thing now. That everything else you mentioned is really just a manifestation of that. That everything that you mentioned was foretold to you if NC didn't happen.

You have dragged this out a long time, and all the details you mentioned that have changed are really irrelevant if he is sill just pining away every time he sees her.


Of course the letter will have less impact if it is anonymous, probably will just be filed in the trash. Why are you still afraid? You have to stand up. Is living like this, keeping whatever status or importance or whatever you don't want to lose in your jobs or whatever worth all this?

Isn't enough enough yet?

POM --

You are far too trusting of a man who has not earned it.

-he has now become transparent with his phone, phone records, emails, passwords, etc
Unless he purchased a pay-as-you-go phone or created a special email just for them
-he has changed his gym schedule so he doesn't run into her there anymore (yeah, that was one I forgot to mention)
and so did she...
-he calls me at least 4 - 5 times per day as a kind of reassurance that nothing is going on (we used to always talk this much during the workday
He knows you're on to him, so he's monitoring YOU more closely
-he is accountable for all his time and whereabouts
but is he where he SAYS he is?
-he has put in for a transfer (I want him to stay at this job because I can monitor him very well here)
and what about her?

As to being remorseful:

Dr. Harley states that it's the infrequent wayward wife who returns to the marriage with remorse for her adultery and hurting her husband....at least, showing remorse right away. A wayward wife often believes the marriage was bad and has a very tough time returning to it. In the book SAA, Sue believed her husband was the one who should be sorry.

On the other hand, a man must be completely remorseful for recovery to work--hat-in-hand remorseful. It may take some time for the fog of the adultery to dissipate, but once it does, a remorseful wayward husband is usually pretty horrified at what he did and does all possible to make amends.

Exactly.

As long as he sees her, or hears her name, or works where there will be something to trigger a "special" memory, then he is only going to be remorseful over what he "lost."

After all this time, I still don't think you get it. Things have changed. Your old life is gone. It never was what you romanticized it to be probably, but it is gone.

You can only now change the future. It isn't going to be the same. Maybe it can be better. But it has to change. He isn't going to change if you don't.

Nothing WILL EVER change so long as they work together...I learned this first hand.

When did the affair die for my W?

The day I sent exposure letters to everyone, including HR and OM's employer -- with names --...OM was fired from the workplace within 2 hours of them receiving the letters, and it bagan the (too long) process of my W finally leaving that place as well.

Recovery couldn't begin until that was accomplished.

Yes I do see that. I don't know why I bothered to point those things out. It's like you all said - the fog will never lift this way.

I'm NOT scared anymore - but I'm not going to be the one to lose MY job over this. Especially if I have to go into Plan B. If I wait until I am on maternity leave, they can't fire me. And yeah, at this point, I am getting to the point where I am falling so far out of love with him that I'm just starting to plan my future without him. And my future as a single mom of three kids requires me to have a job. So it's almost to the point where I prefer to keep my job and lose his cheating [censored].

Not trying to be combative, just letting you know that I am not trusting, I am verifying.



Ok, thank you.

This is the importance of Plan B. Hanging around like the current situation kills anything you have and makes reconciliation less likely from your end.

In Plan B:
you will feel less stress, making you healthier and more attractive
You will keep any desire you have to reconcile for longer. It is draining away fast now.
You will develop a life an dependance on yourself, this is healthy in many aspects.

Plan B has saved marriages by making the WS face consequences and force NC, but not when the BS feels like you do.

Plus Plan B is amazing, peaceful and nuturing for YOU. Why do you hate the idea so?

Oh I don't hate it at all. It sounds amazing to me right now. It sounds exactly that - peaceful. I can't wait to get there. Away from all the pain & misery that being with him brings on a daily basis. It's taken a long time to get past the paralyzing fear part. Just making the plan, lining up the ducks...

I'm not very optimistic about anything working right now though. Plan A, B, Plan PoM - any of it. Today is just one of those days... he's done with me, I'm done with him... if I wasn't 35 weeks pregnant right now (and it wasn't illegal to do so) I would've grabbed my kids and hopped on a plane a long time ago... leaving sounds positively dreamy right now.

You need Plan B.

I had been through a long, trying time. I was the BH in what I think was an EA. I had exposed. My wife never once even pretended she wanted to reconcile. Eventually she filed for divorce. I had to move out about 6 weeks later. Even after about another 6 weeks I still had nothing on my mind but reconciling, but it was killing me emotionally.

I went to plan B, honestly in my mind, as a step, a tactic, in the march back to a marriage. Of course, only she could decide that, and she didn't. I waited for a while in anticipation of it having an affect on her. I don't know if it ever did really, but it had and affect on me.

I waited through the holidays. Between Thanksgiving and Christmas there was a tragedy in my family. There was some contact then, she is not heartless, but nothing ever changed, except this: as time went on, I felt at ease more and more and started looking towards the future. When the divorce was final about 6 months after Plan B started, I was in fairly good shape emotionally.

Plan B can save your mind. Maybe your marriage, but definitely your mind. If you stay around too long, you won't care.

Plan B letter draft:

Dear WS,

I am so sorry for all the things I did to get us to this point. The things I did that made it possible for you
start a relationship with someone else. I neglected you, the kids, our family life, our home life, and blindly
and selfishly focused on what I wanted to do for a very long time. We are now both in a terrible place due to
these mistakes I made.

I want to avoid ever making those mistakes again. I want to do what we set out to do when we got married -
build a life, a home and a family together. I want to make you happy like you made me happy for so long.

But I can't do that while you are still seeing and talking to [skank]. Until that ends, I can't see you or
talk to you. I'm asking you to leave. The baby will be here in 3 weeks and she needs a home to come
home to so I can't be the one to leave or I would. You can see the boys whenever you want, you just have to make
arrangements with xxxx. She will be coordinating it so that we don't see each other when that happens.

You can pick them up from daycare on weeknights when you want to see them and on weekends I will drop them off
at my Dad's and you can pick them up and drop them off from there to see them.

I will have someone let you know when the baby comes and you can come see her in the hospital when she is not
in the room with me. After that, you'll have to make arrangement with my Mom or your Mom depending on who is here at the time.

Please respect my decision not to see you or talk to you right now. I can't continue to live with you this way, it's too
painful.

As soon as you show me that you are willing to completely and permanently separate from [skank], I am willing
to discuss our future together. I still love you, I still believe there is a chance for us, but not while
you are still talking to her and working with her.

You must be willing to change your work situation so that you no longer work in the same building as her
ever again. If she changes buildings and winds up in yours, you will have to change again.
You must be willing to write her a letter to break off the relationship -
a letter that I will see and approve of first. A letter that I will mail.
You must be willing to work on a recovery program with me that
involves spending alot of time together and taking precautions to prevent something like this from ever
happening again.
You must be willing to continue to be completely open and honest with me and so,
I'm going to need you to pass a polygraph test.
You must be willing to sign a post-nuptual agreement.

I still love you very much and I want to do all the things we said we would, raise our family together,
and continue to build our life together. I want to make you happy and I want to build a happy home for our
family. We just can't do that until you are completely separated from [skank].

Love always,
me

This is probably going to happen Tuesday. I think I will have to go to work, go home early, pack his stuff and...I'm on the fence about changing the locks. I thought about putting it in the letter... we've discussed this. We both know it's illegal...unfortunately he is friends with the sheriffs (and they know me pretty well too), they may (or may not) take his side if it came to that...but you can see why I rather they not be called.

If I don't change the locks, he'll just come in and try to talk. But if I do, we have a big french door and he could easily get the kids to come to the door and open it for him.

I'm afraid of him making a big scene in front of the kids if he comes home to find the doors locked. I could take the kids to my Dad's until I know he's gone, but he might figure that out and go there and get them and then insist I let him in.

Questions (that I pretty much know the answers to, just want to hear your input):
If I successfully get him out of the house, do I bother telling OWH?

Confirmation that the A is still going on is probably going to come via VAR or keylogger - do I reveal that? Do I tell OWH?

Also, I'll be exposing to his mother: phone call before or after?

What if he promises and agrees to everything right there on the spot? Tell him he has to actually change the work situation and write the letter first, right?