Q, this is what I failed to do for years. He would quit for a while, then go back. He was bored. I had to become his entertainment. And honestly, the kids haven't suffered. They are just fine without me hovering, directing their every move. Anticipating their needs. Seriously, it's ok!

no I hadn't seen this one yet, thank you

I'm having a bit of ahrd time I think understanding what disrepectful judgements are because I wasn't aware there were any in that letter. is it simply the difference between using "I statements" vs. "You statements"?


That feels like a lot of love statements... should I lie about my feelings for him? I don't feel like I love him anymore. I want to get it back but I feel awkward about saying it if it's not real. I do things with love like I write this letter with much love and concern but that's not the same thing as saying I love you...

pre-marriage/dating? during marriage? I don't know if I can come up with anything here. I don't do anything without first taking him into consideration...




I feel like this is so hard to do right now. I'm pregnant and on bed rest, there is very little I am actually capable of physically doing until the baby comes, that's still 3 months away. and the few things that I am capable of doing he gets bored of fairly quickly. when I'm not pregnant there are lots of things that we can do together to build the love between us I just don't see how I can replace/fill that void right now. I can sit at the table and play a game with him, and I can sit and watch a show with him, but anything that requires any kind of physical anything is pretty much out of the picture. Even simple tasks like going up or down the stairs is very difficult and painful.

side note from another post - I understand POJA but what is DS? I thought it was darling son but that doesn't make much sense
"fix your marriage and learn to use the POJA and the DS need can be addressed then."

shouldn't I address his gaming time with his friends here as well or is that part of the discussion we would have over dinner?

is this so that he discover the program and read through it without being presented with my bias first on how to go about fixing things?


...I'm still reading the articles and threads and trying to make sense of it all and how it all fits together.

I have no problem with focusing on fixing my marriage first and then focusing on the children and FC. does FC tend to just resolve itself once the marriage restoration is underway?

gosh this feels like a lot sorry if my thoughts are scattered I'm trying to get them all organized, lol

Domestic Support - IOW household chores etc.

I can give you a rough guess as to something "wrong" you have done in the marriage; you prioritized your marriage below everything else - the house, the children... All of that.

You aren't alone in that. Many women have done that. My wife did. I reacted as your husband did; I retreated into games and friends because I was not in love, because my needs weren't being met. And when I withdrew, I stopped meeting her needs.

Its all a familiar script, Q.

You HAVE to PRIORITIZE your marriage above everything else, or you are going to continue the cycle, or worse.

There are so many I don't know where to start. Here is one of many: "You always say that men go into a relationship not wanting anything to change, and women go into a relationship thinking how they can change him. To that statement I have always said that it doesn�t make any sense because life changes and you need to change with the circumstances or get left behind."


What needs to be said is that you love him in a caring way but are not in love with him.


I am sure you are kidding here and just haven't thought it through. What does he want you to change in the marriage? Have you read the book Lovebusters? I think you probably do engage in lovebusters but are just not aware of it. I can tell this by reading your letter.




I feel like this is so hard to do right now. I'm pregnant and on bed rest, there is very little I am actually capable of physically doing until the baby comes, that's still 3 months away. and the few things that I am capable of doing he gets bored of fairly quickly. when I'm not pregnant there are lots of things that we can do together to build the love between us I just don't see how I can replace/fill that void right now. I can sit at the table and play a game with him, and I can sit and watch a show with him, but anything that requires any kind of physical anything is pretty much out of the picture. Even simple tasks like going up or down the stairs is very difficult and painful.[/quote]

So you think that even if you give him the letter now that he will agree to do all this? If he does, then you will have to work around this. What about going out for dinner? A drive?

[quote
shouldn't I address his gaming time with his friends here as well or is that part of the discussion we would have over dinner?[/quote]

Yes, add that too.


No. I don't expect him to do that.

Which MB books do you have, TheQ?

Oh, I'd also guess that you have engaged in Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgments, and Selfish Demands as self-defeating tactics to get him off the computer.

Again, not alone in that.

If you click on the Articles box up top, there is one called "Why do Women Leave Men?" The answer is neglect.

Honestly after my time here, I believe neglect could be the answer to "Why do Men Play Golf/Video Games."

I have more... But phone posting sucks...

You're right I haven't thought it through, given time I'm sure I can find something, I just have a lot on my brain right now. I can think of a few things that have happened over the years like he hates it when I cut my hair off but I only do it right after the baby comes and starts puking in and grabbing my hair. I'm willing to bet that I do engage love busters but I have no idea what they are, I figured that would become clearer after I gave him the letter and we sat down to do the questionnaires together.

I have no idea if he will agree to it. All my hope for our relationship is riding on him putting us first above the games. I don't think I've ever come right out and asked him to quit completely, I have asked him to be more considerate of who is in his presence when he does it and I've asked him to scale it back from being out with his friends on all of our family time. I don't remember specifically but I must've asked him to scale it back to once a week. he did quit world of war craft shortly after I asked him to give me a month and prove he wasn't addicted. but it was quickly replaced with some other game but at least it was something he could put down when I asked him for help rather than "I can't, I'm in the middle of a real time quest with other people waiting and counting on me". I pretty much take the pluses where I can and as small as it may seem it did make a difference. At least I'm just competing with a computer and not other people.
- dinner and drives sound nice, he's in lock down mode right now about money though, because he just missed a week of work due to weather.

we don't have any of them, finances being what they are, I'm pretty limited to what I can find on the site. I thought before I approach him again about MB I would get together all the information that I can or thought we would need. I have already printed off the questionnaires but thought maybe I should do this letter thing first. then if he was willing to pursue it with me then I would show him the articles and sit down with him to do the questionnaires.

I would not depend on the articles and questionaires to understand this program because you won't get it. This program is completely different from others so you really need to get the books. Can you get some used books from Amazon?

I think it would help tremendously if you read it so that you understand it enough to be able to explain to your husband.

Here are some used books from Amazon:

His Needs, Her Needs for Parents here

Lovebusters: here

This is the workbook that goes with them: Five Steps to Romantic Love: A Workbook for Readers of Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs

Another way you can get books FREE is to email Dr Harley on his radio show and ask his opinion. [it is all free] He will send you a free book just for emailing him a question.

If all that fails, email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com and I will send you some books. I buy them 2-3 at a time and give them away to my friends.

I found and read Domestic support but was not able to find the other one
You are right, I think I probably took it for granted that it was "under control" it always seemed like by the time everything else was done and he came home from work, all he wanted to do was game to unwind from his day, and have me cater to his every whim. I believe gaming has been his only coping mechanism since he was about 12yrs old. he's never had to be responsible for anything and life has sort of been handed to him on a silver platter.

Angry outbursts have never been a problem for us. I will walk away from a situation before it gets to that, and he was cautioned years ago before we ever got married to watch and guard the things that come out of his mouth because of the way he thinks he had the potential to hurt people very badly with out much effort. he has always tried to head that council ever since. when ever we have a problem we always discuss it very calmly and rationally. Even after re-reading the article about it I would still disagree that it's a problem for either of us.

Selfish demands - probably a little but not so much. I can think of an instance or 2 when I did but it was always for the betterment of our home or protection. before we had kids was the first time I remember ever doing anything like and it doesn't come up often. he wanted to bring a video game into the house and I had already seen it and decided it was not something I wanted in our home and I would be very embarrassed if someone else came into our home and saw it. so I told it was not to come in, and if it did it would be gone. 2 weeks later it appeared in our home and I felt very betrayed and that was first time he ever hurt me so badly that I know I did shut down towards him so much that I couldn't stand to be in the same room as him or get dressed in front of him. I remember thinking it was so bizarre that I felt like I had been severely abused, I was ashamed to have anything to do with him.

Disrespectful Judgments - until yesterday I would've said that it may have been a mild thing at most but not really an issue. however after the comments that MelodyLane has made I'm starting to think I don't understand this concept very well... I know one of the things we have always enjoyed between us was the banter we could give each other, maybe some of that is coming out in the letter. I remember one day sitting in the kitchen at his moms house and we we're goofing around like we normally would and his sister jumped up and yelled at us to stop fighting. we looked at each other confused, we weren't fighting in the least but to her it sounded so. To us it was a game of wits, regardless we were aware it was affecting others so we stopped, for years. until last year he reminded me of how we used to do this and so we tried starting up again it was a little awkward and I don't think it really lasted long before we just forgot about it. maybe that banter turned into some form of disrespectful judgments? I'm not sure. the one statement she did point out I never would've thought to be one, so I will take time to try and process it and understand it better.

but to get him off the computer I don't want to be in a parenting role, I don't think that's respectful of each other, and I've always tried to keep myself away from that position. I try to let his decisions over his actions be his choice. if I have a need that requires his presence I make it known and leave it up to him to make his own choices. apparently he lacks the ability to make good choices, and I don't know what else to do, which is why I am here.

I'm sorry if it seems like I marched in here and took the wind out of your sails, Q.

The thing is, I can't say that I'm in total agreement about your H having a gaming addiction. In fact, I think you were a little more on point when you stated that it felt like an affair.

In my short time here, I have seen this story play out over and over again. I watched my brother go through it, with the worst possible outcome. I went through it, and while I lasted longer than he did - I ended up with the worst possible outcome.

It's a pretty simple script; man and woman get married. Man and woman have children. Woman makes the children and household be the center of her attention, man steps aside to allow this to happen (after all, it's for the children!). As the man's needs are met less and less, his Love Bank dwindles... he withdraws into something else... tries less and less to get his needs met (and when he does, it's usually through Love Busters). Man enters withdrawal, replaces wife with; games, sports, cars, etc. Wife is neglected. Wife's Love Bank balance dwindles... wife enters conflict or withdrawal. Wife wonders what the hell happened. Wife thinks Husband is a bum.

Your husband is less likely an addict, and more likely completely unhappy in his marriage, and would feel like a cad to complain when you are a "wonderful wife."

But, he probably is a cad. Place a keylogger on his computer. I'll bet he's not just gaming, he's probably watching porn, too. He's checked out, Q. He's given up on you meeting his needs, and at this time has zero interest in meeting yours.

His gaming is "OK" because he's; not having an affair, not out drinking, not out chasing women, at home most of the time.

But, he has given up on being happy in the marriage and is probably holding out hope that some day a lightening strike will return the woman he married, rather than this woman who treats him like an old sock with a paycheck.

Before you can get him to turn around, you are going to have to demonstrate that you are willing to meet his needs and not just demand that your needs be met.

Okay?

The_Q, you are getting some GREAT advice!

There is alot to chew on and old habits to break. We all go through it and once you do you will feel alot better for it.

Keep posting. Get a copy of his needs her needs for parents and love busters. They are SO helpful and have SO much insight.

Just remember, its a marathon and not a sprint and feelings follow actions.

MNG

HoldHerHand,
I wouldn't worry about deflating my sails, lol, you have brought some interesting points to my attention. I do feel the need to clarify though if I don't think me or the situation are being understood correctly.


there is no doubt in my mind that it is definitely an addiction. I believe he was addicted before we ever got together but I never acknowledged it as an addiction because when it was just the 2 of us I figured he was a grown man he can make his own choices and I figured when children came around he would re-prioritize the same way I would have to. The thing that solidified it for me was that he is completely unwilling to allow ANYTHING to interfere with it, and he will sabotage any time out together just so he can get back to it. he feels like an absolute jerk afterwards, but that doesn't prevent him from doing it in the first place.

I don't think so, possibly a little, but that was an issue at the beginning of our relationship and I don't think he really is, not intentionally seeking it out anyways. That is the one thing I have always made very clear to him is that if he has a need there then that's what I'm here for. he did do a bit of counselling for that too before we were married. the door to his room is always open so there is always the risk of someone walking in on him. I could ask him, I trust that he would be honest with me.

I don't know that I've ever treated him like a paycheck(it is possible), he treats himself like that, and I've asked him not to, I've told him that he's more important than just being a paycheck.

That's what I've been trying to do, I just don't know how, and I don't expect that I will until we sit down to do the questionnaires. I was going to do that after I gave him the letter. so maybe I should back to focusing on doing that?

I would definately follow Melody's advice and email Dr. Harley. You really need to get the book LoveBusters and you and he need to sit down and read it together. And shoot Melody an email and get another book. The thing is is we really don't really we engage in love busters. Your statement of him not having to take responsibility and having a silver spoon in his mouth is a disrespectful judgement. Every time we roll our eyes, give a small huff, etc. it's a love buster.

Here's the other thing, you speak negatively of your husband on here. That means you have negative thoughts of your husband. This negativity comes out in body language, mannerisms, tone of voice, etc whether you realize it or not. And he picks up on this. And so he feels disrespected and retreats to the games so he won't have to deal with the irritability and negativity.

We get so entrenched in our reactions and the way we respond that we don't even realize we're doing these things. And strangely enough, our spouse sometimes can't even realize what's happening...only that they're not comfortable with what you just said or how you said it. And we brush it off as "I was just kidding" or "You konw I didn't mean it that way."

The problem is we invalidate how our spouse feels and then it's basically no big deal if they feel disprespected. And, like I said, they might not even realize it first until they find themselves feeling angry and upset for seemingly no reason. In other words, they don't want to be around you.

Thank you kilted_thrower, I appreciate your comments and insights.

I don't have a problem doing any of this but how do i do this, what do I do first?
do I try to get the books?
write a letter to H?
or email Dr. harley?
at this point I'm thinking I should wait on the letter,
1. email dr. harley and wait for his response,
2. and then get the books,
3. then write letter to H.

what order do I do things in? or do I do everything all at once?

I'm assuming someone linked the "When to Call it Quits" article.

Hold off on the letter.

Educate yourself first. Write Dr. Harley, read the books, and then prepare a Plan A ----> Plan B scenario. Be prepared for plan B well before you begin your Plan A.

This letter you are so excited to deliver would be given AFTER a short Plan A, before you go into Plan B.

Dr. Harley may tell you different, though.

I'm not sure if someone linked it, MNG may have.. but I have seen it.

alright, so I will compose something for dr. harley first, and get the books together. I agree I like to be educated first before I jump into things...

HHH, the letter is sent FIRST and is the start of her Plan A. Harley has told other women on the radio show to do it this way. The way it works is she sends him a love letter telling him what she needs to make her happy. She is asking him to do certain things. In it she tells him what changes she is willing to make too in order to make him happy. She gives her vision of a happy marriage.

This way, he is clear as a bell about what she needs to be happy. Harley recommends a letter rather than in person because it removes the emotional aspect. There are no fights, no emotions and there it is in black and white.

She then does Plan A for several months in the hopes that he gets on board too. If he DOESN'T, then she separates from him with no forewarning. So in the time she is in Plan A, she is working out a plan for separation in case it comes to that.

If I have time I will look for some radio clips on this. I know he doesn't mention this Plan A letter in the article, but he does talk about it on the radio show and I think it is a good idea.

ML .. and the rest .. thanks for helping out The_Q and guiding her on her quest to restore love in her marriage. This online community is the best!

so MNG said I should bring this up on the board... I came home from church yesterday VERY angry! I think that was the first time I ever came home feeling worse after having been there.
We've been going to this marriage and family relations course, yesterday the topic was faith, prayer, forgiveness, repentance. There was a focus on how if you put God first then everything will just fall in line. if you pray together then your spouse will know how your feeling and will be able to make changes. There were comments about ignoring annoying habits so that they don't become an issue. they read a quote someone said about isn't it better to just ignore things you don't like, Isn't it better to say nothing �bury it?
I finally had enough and stood up and said NO! that's how you foster a relationship of neglect and abuse where nobody's needs get met, it's self serving and that does no one any good! it's those annoying habits that when not addressed destroy the marriage. if they are annoying at the beginning and not addresses then they become major irritants and deal breakers later and then it's too late because you're so entrenched in what you've been doing all along and it take tremendous effort to correct or it becomes the straw that tears it all apart. how are you supposed to teach your children how to properly resolve conflict if you never address things and just ignore everything... it just builds and builds until someone explodes, and who benefits then???
The next class they talked about resolutions. I hate resolutions and I hate talking about them. I figure if you want to make a change in your life then just do it, don't set yourself and follow the pattern of failure. once one person starts to talk about how they failed their resolution then it makes it easier and easier to just give up on your own. and half the time resolutions start out with good intentions but in the end become too lofty to achieve and you have no motivation to stick to it because everyone else around you has failed and can't support you to continue yours. make goals, start a journey to get where you want to be but be realistic about it and allow yourself to fall off the boat every now without beating yourself up too much and then have a plan or a way to get back on. I had enough, my blood sugar dropped and it gave me the excuse I needed to leave a few minutes early. I'm sure hormones played a significant part in that frustration because normally things don't bother me to that extent.

so that's my rant, I don't expect feedback about it. it just is what it is, lol

ML I look forward to hearing those radio clips.