"But I have to agree with him on the fact of what good does all that do? There are plenty of ways to carry on an A. What else can I do but never let him leave my side. I have to be realistic. Everyday hes at work, do i think he could be contacting her? absolutely! You all know what they're capable of. "

If there is still a "way" he can carry on an affair, then that "way" has to be eliminated. So ask him to list those ways and give you his PLAN to eliminate them. It is his job to implement extraordinary precautions to protect you from another affair and it is your job to make sure he does. You need to set the bar HIGH.

You need to make it a CONDITION that he affair proof your marriage and commit to Marrage Builders. That is NOT negotiable. Don't negotiate, tell him this is how it will be.

Have you exposed his affair? Is the OW married? If so, does her husband know? Have your families and friends been told about ten affair?

Here is how you introduce it: you set him down and give him your conditions. He either gets on board or don't have a marriage. What you will have is a death of a thousand cuts.

Do I think he will get on board right now? No, because his affair is not over. His affair is still acitive and he is not in the least bit serious. Like I said, he is a playah who is gaslighting you. If you want him to get serious, you have to get serious.

"But if any of you have a nice easy way of bringing up a conversation with him so I can introduce the MB ideals without scaring him away, im all ears."

If your husband was serious, he would embrace a plan of recovery, not run from it. This is more proof that he is not serious. He is not serious because he knows you are not serious. You have no plan and he is being allowed to set the agenda on his terms. Letting a wayward set the conditions of his return is about like letting a falling down drunk drive the car.

Your husband is only living down to your conditions, daisy. If you don't get serious and raise thE bar you are facIng a continued affair for years. I assure you, the affair is not over.

Daisy. You need to expose to OW BH so that he can protect HIS OWN FAMILY!! Wouldn't you have wanted OW BH to call you and let you know that your M was under attack?

Of course you would.

It is the right thing to do.

It will also put another set of eyes on them as OW BH will now be watching like a hawk. You need this because I agree with the others that the A is still on.

Honey. I want to save this M and I need you to commit to the MB recovery program. This is what it will take to keep me in this M.

If this scares WH away then he was never serious to begin with. It would mean a lifetime of heartbreak.

Pokerface is right, you must expose the affair to the OWs husband without warning your husband. Her husband can then watch his wife on that end and keep her away.

Hang on, HE sent it? Tell me he did not send it - tell me you did. You did, right?



You cant talk to a wayward, Daisy. They are high - drunk. Everything he says will be a lie. And he will not listen to a word because he does not care about you while he is wayward.

He has everything just the way he likes it - you and the OW. And he cares about neither one of you. Why would he listen to you? Why would he implement MB?

If you want this to be 'nice' and 'easy' then I suggest going straight to plan D and finding a new husband.

Unfortunately saving your marriage will be neither. Waking someone up from an addiction takes tough love. You cant nice someone out of their crack habit.

Amicable? He is cheating on you and as happy as a sandboy while you are scared witless.



Who told you he would rather be with her? Oh yes the liar. Why is it you believe him?

Because of the gaslighting?

He doesnt care about her. OR you. He only cares about the drama of having an A on one hand and a put-up-with-anything wife on the other. His ego likes it. Plan B will protect you from his toxic behaviour. And it might, just might, make him realise he cant have it all. And how to get back the good thing he threw away.




You are either up for doing things the MB way or not. Please tell us if not because there are many other posters who can be helped becuase they are willing to do the work.

When are you telling the BH the truth? You do realise he is being gaslighted worse than you are?

What am i missing here, pls help!

Let me summarize:
I knew in my GUT that there was an A.

I made my H aware that I had these feelings.
He of course denied it, telling me that he didn't love me anymore and he just wanted to be alone. And if i couldn't wait for him to realize what he wanted out of life (if ever), that I should file for D. Basically, I was no longer what he wanted and thinks we both wasted our time with each other because we haven't been happy for years.

I found MB and got advice

Plan A (very shortly)

Got my small bit of evidence

Got a confession

Got passwords, name, and nc note

I don't have enough info to expose. Don't know if OW has BH

I really feel like my Plan A wasn't long enough to prove my "worth" to my WH. I went from a monster to a sexy kitten to an emotional wreck.

The confession threw me off task. I took it as a sign of remorse. Why would he confess and give me details about OW and continue the A? This is what I'm beating myself over the head about.

So because I jumped the gun to recovery I dont feel that is what i should be focusing on right now.

I feel like i should still be plan A'ing but its confusing because the A is out in the open.

I dont feel i should plan B right now because I know that I don't have enough of his interest. He was a very different man than I knew (like a stranger) when I tried talking to him about our marriage BEFORE the A was revealed. Now he's doing little things to make me "believe" that he wants to continue our marriage. But hes like a time bomb waiting to explode when I push those A buttons.

If I keep doing plan A he will get the impression that I've decided to move forward and put the A in the past. Happy days for him!

If I persist about recovery, he will shut me out and I'll be signing D papers.

You're all telling me that the A is still going on, but what IF it isn't? Call me naive, I know, but it IS a possibility. So I almost feel like Im going backwards now because the steps didn't go in the order they should have.

I feel like i still need to investigate, like i haven't gotten anywhere.

Other than me now having his attention and (false) promises.

Everyone keeps saying Affair Proof your marriage

HOW?

The only way you can be 100% sure is if you're NEVER apart!

Trust HAS to come into play somewhere.

Im sorry, my brain is on "overload" right now.

Oh totally.

I trust waywards who do the NC letter

who do whatever their WS needs to feel safe.

Who account for their time

Who change their contact numbers

Who commit to radical honesty.

Mirrormirrors wife was caught in the act on top of the other man. You would think he would never trust her again, right?

Wrong.

She took a poly. She showed him all emails sent during the A. Her time is fully accounted for. She voluntarily told him she would happily take a poly at any point in the future, at the drop of a hat. She also had a postnup drawn up saying she would leave the marraige with nothing if they got divorced to show her commitment to him.

What has your H done that can be called trustworthy?

Gaslight you. That's it. You dont even know the OWs full details to do exposure. He wont even change a lousy phone number because he 'could give it to her if he wanted to!'

DaisY, you have enougH evidence to expose. You have thE taPe recording and your husbands admission there was an affair. Your h has told you he loveS the OW. So you need to contact the OWs husband TODAY and tell him all about the affair.

As far as affair proofing your marriage, if it takes being together 24/7 to make sure he doesn't cheat, then you need to do that. Your husband has said that he can contact her from work. If that is the case then he needs to think of a way to prevent that eveN if means gOing to his boss and having her blocked.

Your BEST insurance is telling the OWs husband TODAY. Find him and tell him. Expos� the affair to everyone, to your husbands parents, close family and friends.

Plan A time is over, Daisy. Now is time for plan rwcovery. And your husband is either 1000% on board or you should go to plan b.

If you cant trust yOur husband while you are apart then the solution is to not be apart. If your husband doesn't want to do that then he needs to come up with a way to GUARANTEE you that he is safe out of your sight. How will he do that?

Daisy you have been told repeatedly that trustworthy people will agree to do the following. They cannot wait to show how trustworthy they are!




Why are you not doing this? Are you fine with being cheated on just so long as you get scraps from him?

While your H is not trustworthy you must keep up your snooping. Get the info and evidence to do a full exposure.

After exposure it becomes harder for him to lie and many waywards resort to honesty at this point. There is good chance that exposure will do the trick at making him more trustworthy.

There is a chance that he will choose to remain wayward forever, but you have to give it your best shot.

Daisy as long as you keep calling him telling you about the Affair when you to,d him you suspected a CONFESSION your not going to get it. IT was NOT a VOLONTARY confession it was DAMAGE CONTROL on his part.

A truly remorseful WH does not confess then go on to out barriers up, blame you for his bad decisions, avoid talking about the elephant in the room ( the affair) nor do they put demands on you like he has.

If it was a genuine confession it would be out of remorse regret and with the willingness to do whatever it took to save the marriage, he hasn't done any of the above genuine signs of a confession.

Please listen to everyone here they have more experience of dealing with WH than you have (sorry if that sounds insulting but it's true) they know what it takes to kill an affair and to give you the marriage and peace of mind you deserve.

First step before you go onto any further is to EXPOSE the affair, tell EVERYONE in your family and his family. Have you told anyone yet? Because you keep avoiding this question.

Then as you said you have the OW name this means you CAN find her family and expose.

As far as evidence what exactly are you looking for? You got the VAR you got his own admission and you got a copy of the NC letter he sent as further proof of an admission of an Affair, you can't really get anymore evidence than this. In the NC letter ( if it's written MB style and it should be otherwise it's not an NC letter) he would have stated that he acknowledges the pain caused and what they did together was wrong, this alone counts as an admission and proof of an A.

Plan A isn't meant to be plan doormat, and right now I don't see a Plan A.

"Daisy as long as you keep calling him telling you about the Affair when you to,d him you suspected a CONFESSION your not going to get it. IT was NOT a VOLONTARY confession it was DAMAGE CONTROL on his part."

Exactamundo!

THE CYCLE OF GASLIGHTING.

1) H and W get married. H and W say they will NEVER Cheat Because They Love Each Other and they will NEVER Forgive any cheating by their other half. The threat of 'never forgiving' is seen as an effective deterrent in avoiding an A. Which they would never do any way (they say)

2) H and W put in place policies of 'blind trust' and 'unconditional love'. Secrecy of all kinds is permitted and even encouraged as examples of 'trusting' and 'loving each other unconditionally' After all neither one of them will ever cheat! And if they did it would be punished with a D!

3) H is flirty and overly friendly with women. This is ok, he tells himself, because he would 'Never Cheat' not even with women who flirt back. He loves his wife and he is sure this is prevention enough. No need to give up the flirting. It feels good though. He allows the good feeling to continue feeling perfectly safe in the knowledge he would 'never cheat'

4) H cheats. H looks back to the policy made at number 1) of Never Cheating Because they Love Each Other - and concludes he must not love his W. However he is oddly terrified of the Never Forgiving pact made. He reassures himself by telling himself repeatedly he must not love his wife any way. This does not really work.

5) W finds out about the A. She is devastated and considers the policy made at number 1) of 'Never Forgiving' but is shocked to realise that the A has little effect on the high love bank she has for her H. What on earth will she do now?

6) H reminds her of the pact of Not Cheating Because They Love Each Other and tells her he must not love her. Wife also recalls the pact made at number 1). She thinks he's right! We did agree that! He must not love me!

7) W goes into a tailspin realising she still loves her H but is now convinced he does not love her. She feels powerless and as if her only resort is to beg and plead.

8) H, who fears the Never Forgive pact is flooded with relief to see his wife begging and pleading. He feels rewarded for educating his wife that she must work harder to make him love her. He is of course still flirting etc because both H and W agree the fault lies with W.

9) Seeing H's lack of remorse convinces the W further that he does not love her. She works harder to make him love her as he has instructed.

10) H begins to believe it himself. H also begins to enjoy the adoration of TWO women! H feels like the big cheese and tells his W she must work harder. He tells himself there is no need to stop being with OW. She has nothing to do with 'the problems in the marriage' which have caused him to stop loving his W. He asks W for more trust, more blind faith and unconditional love - a return to the principles established at 1). Policies which caused the A in the first place.


-----------------------------------------------

Please put a stop to this madness Daisy.

Exactly WH's intent. Throw you a few scraps to confuse you and get you to back off. Looks like it is working nicely for him.

Remorse is when WH starts to do the things that you require to make YOU feel safe and to protect the M. Right now your WH is only doing things to protect HIMSELF.

If you don't persist about recovery and your requirements to stay in the M, you most likely will end up in D anyways. He will continue his A with OW and will likely leave you for her. You heard with your own ears OW pushing your WH for more. Don't fool yourself into believing that OW will magically go away just because you found out. No. Especially given the fact that her own BH is still in the dark allowing OW to pursue your WH at will.

Kill this now. Find OW husband and expose. NOW. Make this your mission...if you want any chance of saving this M. Kill the A.



Go back and read the "stick" part of Plan A. It is carrot AND stick.


Daisy. You are NOT in recovery. You are still in KILL the A step. EXPOSE and remove the secrecy that enables affairs. Stop enabling and start fighting. Take control of your life.

Who is this OW? How did he meet her? Is she someone from work?

EXPOSURE will kill the affair. My WH's OW was a leech. That skank attached herself and wouldn't let go until the fire finally burnt her off.

What was that fire? EXPOSURE

I not only EXPOSED most of her work colleagues, I EXPOSED to her family, friends, anyone who would listen, and I threatened her with a restraining order. I also told her I would sick a PI on her, and my children will hate her forever. She knew I was serious because I exposed her everywhere. She knew I was not about to be quieted and I would continue coming after her until she was out of the picture.

EXPOSE TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE!!!!

expose!!!

"Hes given me his passwords, her name, and sent the nc note.
But I have to agree with him on the fact of what good does all that do? There are plenty of ways to carry on an A. What else can I do but never let him leave my side. I have to be realistic. Everyday hes at work, do i think he could be contacting her? absolutely! You all know what they're capable of. "


you have to agree with him??? no you dont.

my H was a serial cheater and all EP are in place, i even have access to his email at work and a gps. sure he could contact a skank ho from a work phone. but the reality of it is that eventually one of them would want more and i would find out. i have very strict EPs and if he can do it than ciao.

H also knows and is commmitted to recovery, his game is over.

my H gave me everything on day 1++ and was accountable(passwords and all), but the past was lurking and it took awhile to come out. if you look at my drama you will see (from feb to may was difficult)

my gut is that there may be more in the past that he is covering for and thats he why he may be behaving in this manner.

i feel uncomfortable about posting advice, beacuse i am not qualified, but something seems off, other than you need to expose, hes hiding more.

Chickadee if you are not qualified who is? You are recovering with a former serial cheat!