TR - I don't think she is making this up to see the OM. Maybe, but if it's still hot and heavy between them, then she would just change her plans with him in order to appease DD. She's out on her own and can see him 6 nights a week without me even having a clue. For her to make up a story for one night doesn't make sense.

I still don't know what the status of her relationship with OM is. Like I mentioned, a gut feel tells me things have cooled a little, but she is still out there living the single life.

Those darn WW's. Ya gotta love 'em, all the while hating what they've become.

She replied "Ok ill b there at 630...I miss the kids"

So should I reply something like. "Sounds good/great. We'll see you then?" Or leave it at that?

Skip that...I don't need to be bothering you guys with what to reply.

Actually, I'd like to take advantage of what she said to reply back something along the lines of "sounds good....the kids miss you too." But I don't know if that would be the right thing to say.

SW,

Enjoy your day, happy b-day by the way........this is a positive, she could have said no..........look good and be charming and sexy, look right into her eyes when you speak, get a touch in or a hug.........laugh and have fun with the kids.....

I would say "They miss you too. We all do." That's just my thinking though

Wishfull thinking on your part.

Why?

WW left you for OM.

WW are known to put OM before not just the BH but WW will put the OM in front of her BC/betrayed children as well. So when OM's says he has plans for the two of them WW'd do not want to disappoint their OM's.

WW has nothing to gain leting you know that she is seeing OM period.

So there will always be the sinking feeling that you may be getting played. Hurts to think that so people tend to down play the negative senario and push the postive reasons.

I don't know where your WW is with the OM or living the single life.

Thing is as a general or even a coach you when you are facing battle/team where the odds are staked high against you. You have to keep your people focused on how to defeat the enemy. If not your side will lose for sure.

Thing also is that your ship has hit an ice berg. You can't see all the damage. You can only try to stop the water from coming in and pumping out what has entered. Thing is you can't fight half way. You have to used every means that you can use to say the ship for a chance to keep it a float.

Though if this point is reached where you have to be honest and realise that the ship can't be saved you must get off into a life boat before the ship takes you down.

That's why stay calm and plan A big time.

Thanks Jessi!

I recall DD telling me a couple months ago [regarding WW], "kill her with kindness, dad."

That comment has stuck with me. I think there was a reason why DD said that to me. She's a pretty bright little girl and has some good advice.

And as GJM mentioned, I need to stick with a plan - and that's Plan A the best I can. My philosophy at this point, and what I'm going to portray to her:

1. Be confident. Know what you want, what you're doing, and
stick with it.
2. Be charming (I've already had a girl tell me recently that
I'm charming - this was just in a conversation we had) so I
still must have that!
3. Work on meeting her Emotional Needs.
4. Be nice, but not needy. She's always said throughout the
years that I'm a nice guy. Let her know that now.
5. Be laid back, and don't let anything get to me. This was the
attitude I had when we met and dated. Of course with kids and
a family, things changed. But I'm working to get back to the
laid back attitude.
6. This is the one I'm going to work on: be mysterious. Try to
keep her on edge and thinking. She knows me. She knows what
kind of a person I really am. So do a little of the
unexpected to keep her guessing.

I thought my birthday dinner went really nice. I had the impression that my wife wasn't too sure if she wanted to sit by my at first, she made a comment to DS to switch seats with him cause she was going to share fajitas with DD, but she never switched seats and sat next to me the whole time.

It was kind of weird to say the least. There is a definite feeling that we're more friends that husband and wife. But that's just the fact that we're been apart for over 2 months, and also her demeanor radiates that of a single person. So she definitely is in the mindset that she's a single woman. She did make the comment "see we can all have a good time together no matter the circumstances.

I get the impression that my WW thinks that everything is just fine, that we can all just get together. What she doesn't realize is that if we D, then I will never speak to or look at her ever again. So if she thinks we can continue like this, where she thinks that we're good friends, she has another thought coming. I'm of the impression that a good Plan A, one where we could do more 'friend' things as a family (I doubt she would want to do anything just the two of us), followed by a serious Plan B would have an impact on her. Because she is under the impression that we will all just get along, and if that doesn't happen....

She had a couple wines and I a couple beers. At first there was a little distance between us (physically), but then as we all talked, she would tap me on the arm as she was making a point, she did this several times. One time she even put her hand on my arm as she was talking. I'm not reading into this at all, because I'm sure it didn't mean anything. I mean, she would do this with any friend she was comfortable around. It was just nice feeling her touch though.

She insisted on buying dinner for me and the kids. Was my birthday present, so I thought that was nice.

When we left, she gave DD a hug (I think DS also), but she also gave me a hug, and I gave her a nice hug back. Once again, I'm mot reading into this AT ALL, because I know it was just my birthday and she was being nice.

So we all had nice conversation. For the most part just like any family dining out in the past.

She does exhibit the personality that she feels she's a single woman. So I don't understand how she can not miss her family. She even texted today that she missed the kids.

DD was going to stay with her tomorrow night, but DD said she might go to a magic show at the high school and WW asked what about staying over. The two if them couldn't decide on the logistics of it, so WW told DD "that's ok, I might come over this weekend and bug you." So who knows, maybe she will stop over this weekend to visit, who knows.

I was cleaned up, had on a new shirt, neat hair, cologne. Honestly, nothing new for me, outside the new shirt. I smiled and much as I could remember to, had a pleasant, positive attitude, looked my wife in the eyes, complimented her, agreed with her. The only way I could've been cheerier is if I had about 3 more of those beers.

So I don't know, I would think that many more pleasant outings like this would perhaps get her to warm up to me. But I still have a strong feeling that she's not interested in all at entertaining the idea of returning home. Though she did mention missing the kids, so maybe that will increase with time.

I talked to my manager at work (he went through the same thing two years ago and his wife returned. Of course it took her getting pregnant to hit rock bottom). My manager questions my WW's motive behind her fence sitting and lack of filing (don't want to jinx myself by saying this). He's still of the impression that she's keeping me as a backup option.

My wife commented several times that money was tight this paycheck and she would have to wait till next when DD questioned her about some things she wanted. WW even joked that there wouldn't be enough on her credit card for dinner.

So what did I establish this evening besides the fact that I'm going to get the grilled chicken tacos again?

1. My wife and I can carry on normal conversation just like we used to. Sometimes a glass or two of wine helps out. We honestly did not have any awkward moments. And if we started to have those, a few more glasses of wine and we can't shut each other up.
2. I know she misses the kids dearly.
3. She mentioned to me that when I find out when the information day is for DS's college, to let her know. I thought she was still talking to DS, then I looked over and she was talking to me. She was talking real calm and sincere, looking me in the eyes asking to please let her know what day it will be.So she was being sincere tonight and not mean at all.
4. The hug surprised me. Did not expect it at all. The arm touches were nice. If anything it told me that she was still comfortable around me.
5. She made references that implies she's still comfortable with the fact that she's living on her own.

Guess that's it for now.

One more thing. I kind of sensed some form of distance between my DS and wife. He was nice and talked to her as normal, but I could tell there was definitely a missing element in the relationship they both once had. The relationship my WW had with our kids is changed and most likely damaged.

Still:

What are you doing about exposure?

Your post is a fine blog, but what ACTION are you taking to KILL this A?

The message that you are sending to your WW is that you are just AOK with her having an affair right under your nose and in your face. Do you get that? None of this matters.

Your WW is walking all over you and you are letting her out of fear. She knows that, and that knowledge is and will drive her further from you.

Time to man up and end this A. Now. Stop with this p--sy footing around.

Ok surfer, give me some ideas. You've read my thread, give me some pointers. What did you do? I agree wholeheartedly that exposure is important. I exposed back in the beginning. Ticked off WW.

Even Melody mentioned that any additional exposure at this time wouldn't end the A, but may damage the OM. And along the same lines, Melody mentions that this guy very well may just walk away at some point. I'm not banking on that, but I am trying to determine the best way to tactfully get the most bang for the buck with what resources I have available. Do the wrong thing and I could cause irrepairable damage in eyes of W. A lot of this is playing mind games.

What I would like some assistance with is how to expose an OM that has no wife. I have yet to hear anyone's stories on how they successfully exposed with limited contacts. All I hear is expose, expose, expose. I would like to hear some tactics, not just expose to this one and that one. I need ideas people....I already know the importance of exposure.

And yeah, I'll stop the 'blogging', though I thought this was also a forum that can be used for venting and just talking in between the hard core serious stuff - which doesn't happen on a daily basis.

sigh

Surfer, I agree with you on this 100% But I need ideas. This site has a wealth of ideas and things people have tried. Many people that have been on this site for awhile have seen many techniques. I would like to hear some of them.

Still - A nuclear exposure that causes your WW to become very very angry is a good thing.

If you have targets to expose, then do it today! EXPOSE wide and far.

Dr. Harley states on average an affair will end six months after exposure. I have been on this forum for almost a year, and a rarity is a continuing affair when nuclear exposure was done. Almost always I see the affair ending.

Please Please continue to use your thread to vent, rant, talk, ask questions ... it will help you heal.

I think exposing again and giving yourself a time line on the PLan A is what is needed now. I think if you Plan B'ed her now she would miss the comfort she is feeling with the stay friends thing.......I would not fix things between her and your son, that is her job and it will add extra concern for her for her direction in life right now.........
Just re-expose to those closest to her and don't protect her from her truth......I am glad your b-day went well......she will look back on that day for comfort being with her family..........
I say let her feel what it's like to be single, maybe don't answer the texts or phone calls right away, make her think you are having a life without her, be misterious.
Make her wonder and live more of her life without you......see how quickly she comes back to you with some excuse to why she has to stop by.
stay on task, stay strong

That you don't know your WW motivations. Your co worker can be right keeping you as a back up plan. Buttering you up so you make divorce easy on her and she gets the better financial deal.

Could be your ceating doubts. Making WW start to second guess herself. Realisation forming what she gains with OM and what she loses with OM and that she maybe losing more then she will gain if WW chooses not to recover.

I asked my Magic 8 Ball for which of the above is true.

Magic 8 Ball said: pick the right answer out of that, magic only goes so far.

So you want to recover and save your family you have to go with plan A is starting to work and you're going to work plan A as good as if you were melodylane.

From a WW that is touching you, also saying she is willing to come to your house this weekend to see DD, when she just said she doesn't feel comfortable going there to you prior the birthday diner.

This shows that plan A is working or WW is working you. I building you up then saying it can be scheme on WW's part. Have you known WW to bild any Wooden Horses? (couldn't help myself)

Unfortunately this is why you need to plan A like a stud. You may need to go to plan B.

Don't let going to plan B be a discouragement and distract your plan A fighting. For plan B to be it's most effective you needed to put on a stellar plan A.

How lon are you in plan A now?
How long do you plan on doing plan A?

For melodylane, a person that adovcates exposure all the time every time but wants you to hold off there must be a good reason for doing so for the time being. I think part of it is that with WW out of the house if you get WW mad enough she won't let you anywhere near enough to plan A her.

I think then when you are ready to give WW the plan B letter then the time to do full all out exposure. Re expose those already done and include everyone you can and throw in the kitchen sink as well.