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#2598401 02/18/12 02:23 PM
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Dear Dr. Harley,
Seven months ago I had caught my husband having an affair through emails and phone records. He had denied any sexual contact with this woman and after calling the woman I had found out that he was having sexual contact with her. After I had confronted him he admitted to having multiple affairs throughout our seven years of marriage. The first affair started our first year of marriage. The first year of marriage, I caught him on several �adult� chat rooms and other internet porn sites. He had eventually met these women having sex with them or picking up women up from the bars when he was on travel. We are both Christians, have a four year old and had custody of his eight year old son. I had heard through his co-workers about the affair he had during the first year of our marriage. He denied the affair (with a maid at the hotel he was staying in on travel) until he had finally came clean when I caught him the last time.
Although he came clean, crying and stating he was a horrible husband, he didn�t stop. I filed for divorce and told him I was giving him the four months (pending finalization of the divorce) to change his ways. He moved out of state to his town where he grew up. Although he had agreed to work on himself and change, I had learned that he was still on chat rooms and trying to date women on those sites. He had taken all the money he had in our bank account (from a settlement he received) leaving me and the kids with nothing. He gave his 8-year old son back to his mother. After he moved he quickly started dating a woman he met on a dating site. He since had dated several others. He blamed me the entire time, stating if I was more intimate, more affectionate, more this, more that he wouldn�t have been led to affairs. He even called me after moving to rub in my face that the women he was dating were everything I wasn�t!
I went through some intense intimacy with the Lord during this past seven months. I grew very strong through the word. I didn�t not date anyone or even look for someone as directed by the Lord. I knew I wasn�t ready for another relationship and didn�t want to be caught into temptation of fornication or anything else that would set me back because I was hurting.
Our divorce is now final and he came to me while intimate with another woman and told me he missed his family and wanted to work things out. He stated that God had shown him how horrible of a man he was. He broke off his relationship with the other woman and started going back to church. He attended divorce care classes through his church and bought me a car because mine broke down (He had taken the nicer vehicle when he left). I am having a difficult time because since he has been calling, all that I thought was healed has resurfaced. He doesn�t discuss anything with me if I don�t ask in reference to the past. He wants to forget about it. I told him I don�t trust him due to all the lies and deceit. I am also having a difficult time with the images of he and ALL those women, including the internet stuff. I am not sure If he is genuine. I lived with a very selfish man who lived for his own self pleasure. Although he recently bought me a car (spent $4, 600) he went and bought with cash a $20,000 vehicle for himself the same week. I feel that he is still self-centered and he acts like tolerating my constant questioning is enough. Part of me wants to run and hide from him, never looking back however, part of me doesn�t want to miss the potential of being with the �good� husband in him I never had. I just don�t know how to tell if someone is genuine and humbled. How do you know its God at work and not just someone running with a temporary emotion?

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First- welcome.

Second- please break your story into more paragraphs, and if you can, shorten it.

Third- Dr. Harley is not a poster here, and will not directly answer your question in this format. You could contact the radio program, if that is what you desire, or the coaching center.

And fourth? Although I am not Christian- I am pretty sure that Dr. Harley, along with the many amazing people on here- don't actually speak for God, so it does not appear that is a question that can be answered in this forum. smile

Last edited by RidicSit; 02/18/12 02:33 PM.

Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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A5 welcome here but sorry you had to come.

As previously suggested please edit your post as it is very hard to read and many posters dont have the time as I did to read it as it is .... waiting for daughters and her hubbies friends to leave go to sleep etc after a bit of a post gig party ... they have so much energy in their 20s crazy

Just dot point .. example below
H had affair started around xx/xx/xx
H moved out leaving me & kids around xx/xx/xx
divorced in xx/xx/xx
then his wish to come home etc etc
his curent actions by dot point again

it will make it so much easier for you to get some help if your post is shorter and to the point so we know what you are asking. Also for posters to ask clarifying questions.

Now my thoughts based on what you have written are that he's got buyers remorse... not much fun living with OW everyday not seeing kids and so on... and YOU are suddenly looking a much better bet .... for him. Of course OW may have thrown HIM out for same reason ???

Now is all he has said he has done .. leaving OW etc.. is that a sign he's serious, remorseful, wants to change? not enough info to say however I would advise you to set high standards and requirements as a starting point to even discuss it. There is NO forgetting about the affair.. no sweeping it under the rug. If you need to know something he has to tell it honestly.

However I feel you need to consider writing to Dr H.. via this site ... and perhaps also look at couselling with him in regards to recovering or not your Marraige with your ex. If your ex is serious he should be willing to do this and pay for it by the way.... he should be willing to climb mountains for you and the kids !!!

I do not believe your ex from what you write is anywhere ready for YOU to remarry him right now.. unless you want more of the same marriage you had.

Could your M recover and you remarry? yes but I feel you and ex would need some counselling from Dr H and it will take some time amd lots of work from you both, especially your ex.

Do not jump into anything... listen to advice from a lot of experienced posters and get professional advice from Dr H

all the best
AW






Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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My feeling is...if he's TRULY repentant...you wouldn't have to ask us.

Crocodile tears and remorse is NOT repentance. Buying you a car is not repentance especially when the entitled pig buys himself one at 4 times the price that he pays for his victim (and HIS child) to ride around in.

I think you will regret giving this man another chance. He needs a list of conditions including NO COMPUTER USAGE for at least 6 months to break those nasty habits. He needs trusted accountability partners NOT his ex-wife that can....in time...if he's successful...report to you that, indeed he appears repentant AND has actually apparently changed his way.

Repentance = to change. It does not just mean "sorry". Changing ones behavior starts with a decision and a plan. Perhaps if you are gung-ho about trying...ask him what his plan is. If he doesn't have one....suggest working the MB plan.

Actually...the best suggestion someone made above...call the Harley radio show and see if they can help.

Mr. Wondering


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"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Ohhh...I meant to add. I'm an attorney (tax attorney but I've learned a thing or two about divorce law in my nearly 7 years here on MB). He's taken the family money and hid it. I sounds like your divorce is final already so it sounds like you weren't that successful making him pay much in spouse support or marital settlement. If he's being nice to you and trying to get back with you by buying things...in the interests of fairness and doing the best by your child (if and for as long as you can emotionally handle it) I'd be pressing you to extract payments/money from him by seemingly being willing to go along with his conniving scheme to buy you back until such time as you've extracted an amount commiserate with what he "stole"/absconding with or he stops paying.

Again...only if you can handle it and you aren't letting yourself get suckered by his lies. The money isn't as important as your emotional/mental health. Make him pay for any emotional contact with you whatsoever.

BTW...how will you know he's lying...when he doesn't go out of his way to demonstrate to you what the truth is and what his behavior is NOW demonstrating that he's "changed" then you'll know he's lying when his lips are moving. You shouldn't have to ask OR trust him.

Mr. W


p.s. - Let's say your ex-husband was my brother and he came to me saying he'd repented and wanted to get back together with you, I'd tell him to basically get security cameras in his home, his car, his cell phone (download an app) and make his life LIVE on the web and give ME and you access to log-in and watch him anytime we want. It's amazing how well people behave when they think someone's watching. In fact...that's the whole premise of Dr. Harley's statements that snooping on your spouse is encouraged and should be welcomed. We all could use accountability because we are all human and subject to fall.




Last edited by MrWondering; 02/18/12 04:58 PM.

FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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First of all, welcome to MB. Its unfortunate that you find yourself here because of your circumstances but this is a great place to get help that can and will create for you and your ex a great marriage. The plan has to be followed with little or no exceptions, though.

I want to add the the above comment by saying as the wayward, it is your husbands responsibility to be completely accountable for his actions and willing to do the hard work to rebuild. Much of the work is going to be on his part. He now has to rebuild the trust that was shattered due to his infidelities. And he can't do that by simply saying sorry. Its gonna take time.

If he is truly repentant, he will be bending over backwards to try to earn his way back into your life. I would strongly suggest you read "Surviving An Affair". Yes, you are divorced, but the book will give you an understanding of what you're dealing with AND a proven plan to move forward.



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Divorce final 12/22/11

1 Corinthians 13:7: (LOVE) Beareth all things, believeth all things, HOPETH all things, endureth all things.
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Originally Posted by Anderson5
I am having a difficult time because since he has been calling, all that I thought was healed has resurfaced. He doesn�t discuss anything with me if I don�t ask in reference to the past. He wants to forget about it. I told him I don�t trust him due to all the lies and deceit. I am also having a difficult time with the images of he and ALL those women, including the internet stuff

Repentence means to turn away from sin. What has he done to radically change his life? I see lots of crocodile tears, but what has changed? Anyone can cry when they want something, but that does not mean they have changed. I don't see anything here that would leave me to believe he is not still dangerous.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Anderson5
I just don�t know how to tell if someone is genuine and humbled. How do you know its God at work and not just someone running with a temporary emotion?

Anderson,

God has given pretty clear direction on what biblical repentance looks like.

What does real repentance look like Biblically?

Here is an excerpt from a paper I wrote on this (sorry for the length):


It is clear that Paul has discipline in mind as he speaks to the Corinthians. Though he was saddened by the fact he had to admonish and rebuke, he saw the necessity of it as well as the subsequent fruit. Paul�s admonition brought what he describes as, a godly grief and as such says they suffered no loss. That is, no damage was done to their souls as a result of the rebukes. What Paul is rejoicing in then is what the puritans refer to as a �true evangelical repentance�, that is a lasting repentance which is for the right reasons, the nature of which he goes on to describe in subsequent verses.

2Co 7:10-11 for godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul now, after having established what true repentance is, grief borne from God, he now proceeds to describe what the nature of true repentance looks like. The apostle tells us that godly grief produces in the broader sense, repentance, or turning from sin, that leads to salvation. This contrast of true and false repentance is first put in the context of salvation versus death, speaking of our eternal state. It is in this context that true Christian repentance is explained. True Christian repentance is repentance without regret as the ESV states. Perhaps a better rendering of verse 10 might be this:

�For sorrow according to God accomplishes a reformation (or repentance) that saves and is irrevocable (without regret), but the grief of the world fashions (or brings) death.�

The true work of God, Paul says is one that does not bring regret, because it is not a false repentance. The apostle describes a repentance that is irrevocable because it is a God-given repentance and thus, we do not have to despair over it. The contrast with a worldly grief, that is a temporary turning from the sin, is in Paul�s understanding a matter of life and death. So true repentance then produces a desire, which may be evidenced visibly in the repentant believer. So as Paul begins his discourse in verse 11, we see the product, or fruit, of what God-given repentance brings.

Paul in verse eleven gives us seven marks of true repentance. Let�s consider each one in order:

1. Earnestness: Firstly and most generally, there is an earnest desire that becomes a Christian who is truly repentant. This earnestness(spoude) signifies haste, or a speed that accompanies repentance. I believe that what Paul is trying to get across to his readers is that when the offending party encounters God-given repentance there is a haste or speedy desire to make things right. It is recognition that the offending party desire to make things right before God and his fellow man. Calvin notes in his commentary that this earnest desire �we may understand from what is opposed to it; for so long as there is no apprehension of sin, we lie drowsy and inactive. Hence drowsiness or carelessness, or unconcern, stands opposed to that earnest desire� � This earnestness then is tied to the desire to speedily remedy the wrong done by the sinner.

2. Eagerness: Secondly, there is an eagerness to clear yourself. Literally, to give an apology or defense. Calvin notes that rather than give a defense or excuse for the sin, the word (apologion) is used in the sense of asking pardon. The plea, or apology, then is not to excuse the sin, but rather to seek mercy and forgiveness from the one who has been offended . The idea is akin to coming and throwing yourself at the mercy of the court rather than giving a defense of your case to prove your innocence in the particular matter. This signifies a differentiation in attitudes. The person who has not truly been apprehended by God with true repentance seeks to justify or give reason for the sin committed, but the person truly gripped by a godly sorrow has a humble and contrite attitude. They do not seek to give an explanation for why they sinned so much as they seek mercy for their sin, recognizing that they are without excuse.


3. Indignation: This is indignation towards their sin and even against themselves. This is a righteous, godly indignation, which accompanied with the other evidences, does not lead to a morbid introspection, but rather an outcry against the sin committed. The sinner then seems angry at the sin and even at themselves for having engaged in it, knowing that there is only himself to blame for having engaged in that sin. This is more intense than sorrow Calvin says, because it has become the first step towards hating evil . Thomas Watson comments in his treatise on true repentance that our indignation and sorrow for our sin should be of the same measure as the sin committed . He notes that the failure to weep over our sin is directly connected to our view of the riches of Christ�s mercy and grace poured out upon us !

4. Fear: What alarm or terror Paul says was produced as a result of repentance. This alarm, this (phobos), derives from a sense of divine judgment. This stems from the knowledge that at the last day, every man must give account for his own actions. Proverbs tells us that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.


5. Vehement desire: Paul accompanies fear with vehement desire, or longing. Whereas fear may stem from a natural inclination, according to Calvin, this longing is a more conscious desire rooted in the desire to not commit the sin anymore and thus risk God�s condemnation .

6. Zeal: Paul builds to a climax his exposition of the fruits of repentance. Building off the previous two fruits, fear and longing, Paul adds zeal which is a more intense form in this context of longing. This zeal stems from a desire to make things right as the offender desires to give evidence of his repentance.


7. Revenge: Paul finishes out his discourse on true repentance with revenge. (ekdikesis) means vindication or retribution. True repentance then, also bears the mark of one who wants to vindicate themselves through the demonstration of their repentance. It may be that Paul here has in mind I Corinthians 11:31, where he tells them that if they would judge themselves, they would not be judged by the Lord. Paul here is telling us that if we would judge ourselves, then there would be no need to be chastened by the Lord. Private offenses, says Calvin, need not be handled publicly, but as in the case of the man who was openly sinning by sleeping with his father�s wife, there needed to be a public chastening and also a public repentance on the part of the Corinthians for their tolerance of such a sin .


In some instances, as evidenced in Paul�s description of our 7th point (Revenge), restitution may be in mind. For instance, if a man has taken the goods of another, he may seek to offer repayment for it. This must be a heartfelt restitution. In Luke 19:8, Zacchaeus offers to restore what he stole four-fold. This is a principle which was derived from Numbers 5:7. Important also to note is the fact that this idea was not limited to physical goods (land, money, goods), but extended to false accusations as well. Some sins though, may be so grievous that restitution may never be able to be provided. This must be kept in mind as we cannot separate the doctrine of repentance from Christ our great high priest. It is not possible for us to recompense God for sin against His Holy nature. So how is such a thing accomplished? It is only accomplished in the person and work of our savior, Jesus Christ. Christ has made restitution on our behalf before the Father. He has paid what no man can and has satisfied the righteous requirements of God�s law. Likewise, there may be instances where sin against our brother or sister is so great that restitution may not be possible. It is here also that the grace of God must cover our infirmities. Truthfully, the burden of this rests upon the offended party rather than the offender since it is the offended party who has to provide grace and mercy. Thomas Watson notes that the true child of God seeks the most to be revenged of the sins which have offended God the most . It may be that one of the best ways to avenge the sin is recompensing the one offended.


This may seem like a hard view of repentance, especially in light of the modern evangelical view of sin where grace is cheapened by a �soft repenting�. That is, a repenting that does little introspection does not search the heart and has a view that �God will just forgive whatever I do if I just ask�. Yet, we see David�s words in Psalm 51 regarding how we should view our own sin, where in verse 3, David says �my sin is ever before me�. David�s intent here is not that the threat of God�s judgment is ever before his eyes; rather it is the idea that our hearts should break because our own sin has grieved our comforter. David is saying �my sin is my own fault, and my own sin is before my face� In the Old Testament evidence of true repentance was shown outwardly through various means (shaving one�s head, weeping, sitting in ashes, and clothing one�s self in sackcloth), but in the New Testament Paul shows us a better way. Paul tells us in this passage 1) Our repentance must me God-inspired in order to be genuine repentance 2) Genuine repentance has genuine fruits 3) real repentance is not short-lived (as evidenced in the nature of the fruits it bears), hence the irrevocable nature of the salvation which leads to repentance.


Concluding remarks:


It is important to note that these outward manifestations are evidences of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit, no true repentance could take place. Paul saw the evidence of true repentance. Paul�s concluding remarks is that they �proved themselves innocent at every point�. This means that he was able to see the evidences of a true repentance in them as they were spurred on by their zeal to prove it. We see that such repentance is also profitable in that comfort is provided to the truly repentant. This is seen in Paul�s general manner towards the Corinthians as he seeks to encourage them as well as the tone of Paul�s words that Christ provides comfort to those who mourn, and even though their sin has caused them sorrow, their repentance if followed by encouragement from the comforter who brings peace in the midst of our turning.
There also appears to be a difference in humility versus humiliation in this passage. Paul sees their repentance and says in essence �it is enough�. He is not requiring them to go beyond the bounds of what Scripture requires. Paul�s primary concern is that their earnestness, their genuineness is seen by God. This is displayed in verse 12 where he says that he desires that they see their care for them is evident in the sight of God. One of the great treasures of the Gospel is that God grants pardon to us in Christ if we truly seek him in repentance. As the great work of the Holy Spirit grips us and takes hold, peace begins to reign in our life knowing, trusting, and resting in the knowledge that not only has Christ defeated death, but He has also defeated sin. It is a living in the midst of the already/not yet. Knowing that God has already justified us, he has already given His Son, our redemption has already been accomplished, His Words of Promise have already been written for our instruction, and yet, we still see through a glass darkly. We have not yet seen the fulfillment of the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Christ�s Kingdom has not yet been finally established; death while defeated has not yet been eradicated. It is the knowledge that we are living in the midst of redemptive history and God�s plans are being worked out in and through us, yes even in the midst of our sin, and His glory is displayed in our repentance.


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CV, you nailed it. Great post.


BS - Me 36
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CV

The morning sermon was on repentance. I believe that your post is to reinforce that sermon.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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aussieswife;
Thank you for your post..I agree. I have really taken a step back and just observed. I dont know why I felt rushed. I believe that was the worst mistake. As for now, I am good on my own... Thank you again! I am cracking up at your comment about me looking better! I lost over 40 pounds. Went from a size 12 to a 5... They always come crawling back when you do! Ugggh!

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Mr. Wondering,
I agree... You really know a mans motives when you start reaching in their pocket book in terms of sacrifice. Also, how far they are willing to be an open book..The problem is-I just dont have the energy to do it. sigh

Thank you!

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marksaysay;
Thank you! I have looked for the book on Amazon.. I know that the work is really on him. It is just so hard getting through the images and everything else. I feel like the work is all on me..

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CV,
I am a lose of words.. You did nail it on repentance. Since my post he has come forward and confessed everything. I am not sure if I could handle it all.. He went from internet chatting to meeting these women and having sexual contact in person. He says he was addicted and it controlled his every thought. Yet, today he says God has delivered him and he doesnt struggle from it at all. I do believe God can heal however, I also know the enemy is a deceiver and can lay dormant. I read you and your wifes story. I believe you should publish your story to show the cycle of deception and restoration. My story is a bit different since my husband was a lot more out of control. it was insane that he could just come home after having relations with these distgusting women from these sites. I have listened to the Lord on this which was to guard my heart and watch his fruit. Nothing more I can do aside from ask the Lord to take away the aweful images in my head. Well Thank you again... What a ministry you have!!

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Originally Posted by Anderson5
CV,
I am a lose of words.. You did nail it on repentance. Since my post he has come forward and confessed everything. I am not sure if I could handle it all.. He went from internet chatting to meeting these women and having sexual contact in person. He says he was addicted and it controlled his every thought. Yet, today he says God has delivered him and he doesnt struggle from it at all. I do believe God can heal however, I also know the enemy is a deceiver and can lay dormant. I read you and your wifes story. I believe you should publish your story to show the cycle of deception and restoration. My story is a bit different since my husband was a lot more out of control. it was insane that he could just come home after having relations with these distgusting women from these sites. I have listened to the Lord on this which was to guard my heart and watch his fruit. Nothing more I can do aside from ask the Lord to take away the aweful images in my head. Well Thank you again... What a ministry you have!!

Thank you. I am glad it was a help (and that my thread helped someone too). The damage waywards do is tremendous! The comforting thing is that it's not too big for God to heal. There is a saying here on the list that has that ring of truth to it... "Trust, but verify". In biblical terms, I would equate it with being wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Why? because when we succumb to a sin, we are more prone to it, I believe. The boundaries are harder to rebuild than to keep in place.

One of my favorite old dead guys (John Owen; Mortification of Sin) talks about mortification of sin in the life of the believer... That is putting it to death. He reminds us that our sins never truly die this side of glory, they just lay dormant, and our task is to starve them. I like that concept. Putting to death of the "old man" is a process that we spend our whole lives working at.

Ok... I am rambling... Let me succinctly say this: Go with what you wrote, guard your heart and watch the fruit as he puts this to death and see if the fruit is good or bad. As to those awful images... They go away in time. Or at least decrease in frequency and intensity. It's the same process of putting away the sin that someone has committed against us.

Remember, only a fool says he is never tempted...

CV


Celtic Voyager
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"A story of me"

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