Day time only visits will be impossible. I have my kids every other week as far as the 2 youngest. My 13 year old stays with me all the time. I have been forcing him to go to her house some. I think I'm done doing that, he can decide if and when he wants to see her. Her kids are her life and it will eat her up if she never sees him. I'm thinking anything I can do to make her miserable is for the best right now!

The Plan B letter is the crossover of the plans.
It is your love and desire to have a monogamous marriage with her given as your last (written) statement as you implement plan B.

Talk to a lawyer about how to separate financially and do it legally if you can in your state. The WW can swoop by to pick up and drop off the children at the curb if need be. The IM will be able to clarify this or an alternative for you with her once you are in plan B. Ideally she won't be coming by your home. That will be more angst for you.

Change the locks when you implement plan B (if you haven't yet).

Her kids might be her life, but being in an affair will trump that. It already has.

Is it in your kids best interest to be dragged out of their home every other week for her affair? Are you court ordered to do this? Their interests should be sacrificed for her selfishness.

She has called me a couple times today. She is having one of those crying days. She misses her kids and is miserable. She said she is about to give up and move back in, that way the kids and I can be happy. I told her she can't move back until she is ready to work on our relationship and make it great!

If she moves back she will have to give up all contact with him. That will include everything texting, talking and watching his nieces and nephews. I won't let her back until that happens.

No court order on kids and I don't think it can happen. If I would try that my daughter and 4 year old would hate me and drive a spike between us. I can't risk them hating me to get revenge on her! I'll keep going the way I am and make it the best possible for them.

SM, it is her affair that will drive a wedge between her and her children. It is not right to sacrifice your children's best interest to accommodate for their mothers selfish, wreckless behavior. How is it in your children's best interest to be ripped from their safe home so their mom can shag some loser?

Don't protect your wife from the natural consequences of her affair. That helps no one. It is important to put your children FIRST, not LAST.

Its already driving a spike between her and the kids. 13 year old has nothing to do with her, my 11 year old is torn, she loves her mom but hates what is going on and has resentment towards her right now.

When do I make a call for a phone session with the Harleys? Does she need to totally give up on him first? Will a phone session make her realize how wrong she has been and make her change her mind?

We are supposed to go on a date Friday night. Do I cancel that or just got and make the best of it.

I screwed up so much stuff in the early stages I'm wanting to do it the proper way now.

I would do a date. No relationship talk. No SF if she is still seeing OM. And then STD tests first.

And talk to a Harley ASAP. Even today if possible. It would be great for the both of you to have a session together. But still would be great and of immense importance for you to get strategies on how to fight this affair.

My point is that you should be doing what is best for your kids. She has wrecked her relationship with her children with her affair. You cannot erase that. So, do what is right for your kids.


The time to get counseling would be when the affair ends. However, you might want to get counseling with Steve just for yourself so he could give you some ideas about saving your marriage.


You should go! That is great!

But I would end this exchange with the kids. Let her know that is not fair that your kids get dragged out of their safe home to accommodate her sleazy affair. It also teaches them that adultery is acceptable and that is not the message you want to send to them.

I am not sure what you mean by "no relationship talk" but he needs to be bringing up the affair OFTEN. So what do you mean by "no relationship talk" specifically?


"Together?" Can you elaborate?

I'm not sure she is ready to talk to a counselor yet. How will I know when the time is right? I think she needs to go into it with an attitude of trying to fix things. She's not at the stage of repair yet. She is still in the I don't love/trust you stage and wants a divorce now.

You simply mention that you are doing phone counseling with a well respected counselor to help you take personal inventory on the crisis and she is welcome to join you should she ever choose to.

I believe that Steve and Jennifer (the coaches) have suggestions for getting waywards to speak to them.

You could also begin a file with them so they can refer to it in the future if your WW ever does decide to give them a try.

No relationship talk meaning WW doesn't want to be taught anything so you don't talk about how the affair is wrong is attempting to teach the WW. So spending time with a WW only to get her mad is not doing plan A.

Both talk to a Harley because of their well used line of wouldn't the best case senario for you to be in a love filled marriage with the dad/mom of your children. The Harleys have many tactful strategies to get a WS on board.

And if getting WW to talk with the Harley and she doesn't accept what they say what is the worse that can happen. WW is already having SF with her OM.

That's why it would be great to have the both of them call together. This BH is spinning his wheels and if his WW can hear something to start her thinking the fog can start to lift.

But you should of added the next sentence on your second quote of me. You took this line out of context.

That's where it would still be great for this BH to call even on his own because again the advice he can get for a Harley can help him through the current mind field that he is in.

"No relationship talk" is not part of Plan A at all. He should be telling her at every opportunity how painful her affair is to him. Otherwise, she will conclude he doesn't care. I would be careful when you tell people "no relationship talk" because they interpret that as not talking about the affair. That is NOT what the Harleys advise.


I wanted to make sure you understood they don't counsel couples together. You stated "it would be great for you to have a session together," and you might have meant sharing a session SEPARATELY, [her the first 30 minutes and him the last 30 minutes] so I wanted to clarify your meaning.

So how does he balance telling his WW how bad the affair is and plan A her.

You tell me. You have been here for years and should know this .

She still says this happened because I didn't show her love! I really don't think she has had sex with him yet. She has thrown it in my face to many times that she might as well have with the hell I have put her through about it. I know she has emotional feelings towards him, she told me that. I want to get this stopped before anything else progresses!

She said she would goto a counselor with me. I'm going to make an appointment with the Harleys tomorrow.

I'm asking to get the best info out there for SM.

I don't know what other reason you may think I have.

It is typical for waywards to blame their affairs on their spouses. But ask yourself how having an affair addressed the problem of you not showing her love? Did it resolve that problem? Of course not. The truth is that she had an affair because she has poor boundaries around men.

I think that is awesome if you can get her on the phone with Steve Harley. I betcha she thinks she can get validation for her affair as she would with your typical counselor. Your typical counselor believes fogbabble and validates waywardism. So expect some fireworks between her and Steve!

I would set up the appt as soon as you can before she changes her mind.

ASK FOR STEVE!!!

Then stop telling newcomers "no relationship talk."