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Listen, a woman who claims to have had an affair because of your neglect will not then complain that you are smothering her. Unless, of course, she is still having the affair.

I bet if you looked for a pay as you go phone, you'd find one.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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What baffles me, is how much time and energy you invest to convince us (some people on the internet you don't know) that the affair is over.

If it is, you are wasting your energy.
If it isn't you are also wasting your energy.

Either way it will not hurt you to verify that your wife is telling the truth. And secondly, to prepare yourself for the worst. Why do you strap on your seat belt if you go driving? Well I, personally do not plan on using it, but I put it on anyway. Just to be on the safe side. Now the chance that I will get into a car accident today is minute in comparison to the chance that your wife will contact the other man for some reason or the other. OR HE WILL CONTACT AND PURSUE HER!

That's why we are saying: Put seat belts and airbags in place and brace yourself for a tough ride. You may not need them, but that can only be said in hindsight.

That's how you save your marriage, instead of just taking a shot at saving it.

We know you love your wife and want to make it work. And taking ALL possibilities into account is only sensible when there is so much at stake. We are speaking from mental sanity to retirement money. You'd better make it good!

May God give you wisdom,

Happyheart



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So how do I begin doing any of this besides the snooping if she seems so set that she doesn't feel anything and really doesn't want to try. Every time we talk about it at all she seems to have her mind made up that she wants to leave.

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The point of snooping is to find out the whole truth of the situation.

With the whole truth, one can expose properly and find support from outside sources to bring the WS back to reality.

Affairs are fantasy (after all if this guy was so great, why did she divorce him in the first place?).

Exposure, using the truth obtained from snooping, will kill the fantasy.

Once the fantasy is blown and real no contact is established, is when you can work on bringing your wife back to reality and start rebuilding your marriage.

You are trying to do this by skipping the basic steps and hoping it will still work. Sorry. You are dealing with a woman who left her newborn, family and had an affair with an ex-husband. You NEED to do the work down to the letter, your situation is bad and you can't afford to try it "your way".

"Your way" told you she wasn't capable of such a thing in the first place. You think with your heart and not your head.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
So how do I begin doing any of this besides the snooping if she seems so set that she doesn't feel anything and really doesn't want to try. Every time we talk about it at all she seems to have her mind made up that she wants to leave.

Focus first on exposing and killing the affair. THAT is your problem and is the reason she wants to leave. Make sure the affair is DEAD. Have you told everyone about the affair? That is the fastest way to kill an affair and keep it dead.

See, the reason she is not engaged in your marriage is because she is emotionally invested ELSEWHERE. You have to cut off that path first before you can save your marriage.

Go snoop, get the goods and then come back here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Snoop before exposure?

I am concerned that she will just go ahead and leave when I expose.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Snoop before exposure?


I would snoop around now to see what she is doing. If you don't see anything, you will still want to expose the affair. The reason is because you need others to know why you broke up and this will also prevent any future plans.

But get everything in place first. How would she be contacting the OM?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Snoop before exposure?

I am concerned that she will just go ahead and leave when I expose.

She is more likely to leave if you don't, because the affair might be still on or can be easily resumed if it is kept secret. On the other hand, if you expose and she leaves, it will be temporary because you will have probably shut off the path of her affair. Exposure will ruin any future hope of her affair.

If she left it would be because she is still in the fog. But effectively killing the affair will kill her fog and you are more likely to get her back.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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lfh, do you have the book Surviving an Affair? There is a plan in there that will pull your marriage out of the ditch. But first you have to drag this affair out into the sunlight and kill it dead in order to motivate your wife to want to recover this marriage. The plan of recovery goes like this:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.


Get the book and let her see you reading it. Tell her this is a plan that is supposed to be very effective in restoring the romantic love to our marriage. I am checking into it. And leave the book lying around.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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LFH,
Reframe your predicament. Your marriage is dead gone and buried. The sooner you can let go of it the better. It will need to be reborn. Before that can happen you need to let go of the old and go through a process of being sure the proper circumstances are available for it to be reborn in. The steps ML suggests are what Dr. Harley's decades worth of experience sees as most probable for that success.


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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So we just left our second couple's counselling session and the decision that came out was that we are going to separate. She will be going to her sister's and wants to work out a schedule with the kids.

Good or bad? Let me know if more info is needed to decide.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Every time we talk about it at all she seems to have her mind made up that she wants to leave.

The vets here are not going to steer you wrong I have seen MANY BS's such as yourself go through this on these boards. If she is going to leave, she will anyways. If her mind is set on it then she is just dragging you through the coals until the time is perfect for her... all the while you become a doormat thinking doing "this" or doing "that" will change her mind as she keeps fog talking herself into the wrong decisions.


Originally Posted by bigpicture
LFH,
Reframe your predicament. Your marriage is dead gone and buried. The sooner you can let go of it the better. It will need to be reborn. Before that can happen you need to let go of the old and go through a process of being sure the proper circumstances are available for it to be reborn in. The steps ML suggests are what Dr. Harley's decades worth of experience sees as most probable for that success.

Quoted for TRUTH!

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
So we just left our second couple's counselling session and the decision that came out was that we are going to separate. She will be going to her sister's and wants to work out a schedule with the kids.

Good or bad? Let me know if more info is needed to decide.

MC's don't know the first thing about saving a marriage ... demand a refund.

Separation WILL NOT help your marriage at all. ALl it does is allow your wife easier access to her affair. Beender dun dat (the MC part .. not the affair part). It only drums up old feelings ... and reinforces the "bad" aspects of your marriage. Feelings follow actions my friend.

edit to add minor detail.

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But I dont think there is anything I can do to prevent it.

I am gonna tell her that we will be exposing the affair and that we are telling everyone that we're separating because of it.

Last edited by looking_for_help; 03/21/12 10:45 AM.
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Do you want a divorce or do you want to save your marriage? As a betrayed spouse, it is your choice to choose.

Right now, you are choosing divorce. Separation, in this situation, will lead to divorce. You have given her the option to take the kids a few times per week so she can continue to go out and do whatever with OM or other men. Or, is she leaving them (a newborn??) with you? In that case, even more freedom to act like a 17 year old without responsibilities.

IS that what you want? If it is, then separate. If you want to fight for your marriage, then consider using marriage builders. You registered here over a month ago and have yet to listen to anyone or follow any MB advice. I'm not sure what you want?

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Do NOT tell her that your going to expose. JUST DO IT. If you warn her, it will only allow her time to spin it around on you and make you look like the bad guy. WHen you do expose you make sure to tell them that you want their support in killing this affair and rebuilding your marriage.

Then after you expose, you tell her that you do not wish to separate or divorce but instead create a mutually fulfilling marriage where both of you are happy. Any time she wants to come back she is more than welcome provided she is willing to create a loving and romantic environment with you using the MB tools.

Be calm and cool ... and no love busters.

Kids stay with you.

MNG

edit for a minor detail


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Alis,
I agree with what you say but I dont think I have a say in her leaving. I can tell her till Im blue in the face but it is ultimately her decision. No, I dont want to separate but unless I physically restrain her I cant make her stay.

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MrNiceGuy,

Wont that push her farther away?

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YOur wife is going to be "bat $%&*" crazy when she finds out. Everything she says after that will be in spite of you for exposing. Shes leaving anyhow right? Chances are its to be closer to OM.

She will say things like "NOW its REALLY over" and "there is no hope now" .. and "i knew i couldnt trust you". All fog talk because you shined the light on her behaviour.

Be calm and do not feed into her outburst when it happens. Calmly tell her you do not speak divorce nor seperation ONLY marriage and will discuss the matter later when she has calmed down and then walk away and do not discuss it.

MNG


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What if her family starts giving her grief over it?

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