It's a really long story but I don't really want to write a book. I know a few of you when you read this will probably think I am crazy. I am not sure that would be an inaccurate observation because god knows I think the same thing when I look at my life. Ok the short version of my insanity.

We are not married. SO had an EA right after our daughter was born. Never really made just compensation but we had a daughter together so we(I) worked on it. We were together for twelve years when I decided to call it quits. I mean if your not married in 12 years it isn't likely to happen, right? How do I explain this -- Well, Life is what happens when your busy making plans; 1 year turns into 2, turns into 5, turns into 10, you get the idea.

So we split up and I told him he needed to decide what he wanted, that I wasn't rollerskating up hill anymore. He said he was going to come home. He was going to prove how much he loved me and get himself right. That isn't exactly what happened. In an effort to keep this short. He thought he fell in love with someone else. That did not go as planned and he ended up married to someone she introduced him to.

Fast forward -- new wife left and they got divorced. We were always cordial, and always working in our daughters best interest. We Never planned on getting back together sort of just happened. We are not living together. He lives in another state and is an over the road trucker. (Yes, I know, I read the books.)

I had an EA two years ago and told him I had to leave him because I knew I was crazy,and that it was probably all in my head and I didn't want to hurt him. He stuck by me and waited for the insanity to go away. He instinctively went into Plan A without even knowing what it was. I ended that relationship in short order. The whole thing lasted about three months.

The Woman he thought he fell in love with was divorced and married twice in the mean time. She decided to look up SO and they begin talking again. He acted funny one week that he is home. I start asking questions and snooping find a facebook conversation with OW. I am done. I tell him if she is important enough to throw everything away for then he should go to her because I have had enough. We were actually quite happy at the time and working towards actually getting married after all this time.

He asks can we please try HNHN, that he just didn't know how to make her go away. Exposure was tricky for us, cause well, lets face it, this isn't your usual situation. He did tell his mother and his sister and his aunt. He wrote and sent NC letter. He is working on the O&H and EP. He definitely has boundary issues so he has decided he cannot have female friends.

Here is where I have trouble. Everything about his job is a trigger. He met her when he was training her husband how to drive. He fell in love with her when he trained her how to drive. We cannot afford for him to come off the road and I am not sure that is the best solution either because his first EA was at his job in retail. I Went on the truck with him and became so agitated that I pretty much started a three day argument. I tried to stop, I really did, but just couldn't. I need help with the AO and DJ.

Me-47
SO-48
DS mine 25, 23
DD ours 17
DS his 28
Lived together 10 years been involved for 16 split for almost 3

My dear, you need help with a lot more than AOs and DJs.

You relationship has been a terrible mess. You never made the commitment of marriage, have both been unfaithful and indeed seem unsuited to marrying each other.

You need to either make the commitment of marriage - having first fully understood what a lifelong legal and religious commitment means in terms of how you live your lives - or you should end the relationship.

My dear, you need help with a lot more than AOs and DJs.

You relationship has been a terrible mess. You never made the commitment of marriage, have both been unfaithful and indeed seem unsuited to marrying each other.

You need to either make the commitment of marriage - having first fully understood what a lifelong legal and religious commitment means in terms of how you live your lives - or you should end the relationship.
_________________________

I appreciate that Sugar and I fully expected that to be an issue for some on this board but really if HNHN can save some of the marriages I read about on here I do not see why it cannot help my relationship.

You've missed my point, though, which is that your chaotic relationship is the result of neither of you being prepared to commit to marriage. The lack of commitment has led to the other horrible events.

that's why i said that you need to either learn about marriage and get married, or call it a day. Controlling your AOs and DJs won't cure the chronic lack of care, as well as lack of boundaries, that have plagued this relationship.

I order to quote when you want reply, use the "quote" button that it attached to the bottom right of each post. Try it on your next reply.

Thanks Sugar but do you really think a lack of commitment is the cause of the issues that plagued this relationship? They couldn't have happened if we had married?

But you are not married, amibroken. A marriage is completely different from just living together. First off, your boyfriend has not had an affair and neither have you. Your relationships with these numerous other people are just as legitimate as yours. After all, you are not married. Living together is a month to month renters agreement until something better comes along. That is exactly what happened here. There was never a committment.

Perhaps if you both learn to respect marriage and take the time to learn what marriage means you might be able to create a meaningful marriage. But you both have renters attitudes as it is now. And surely you see that your boyfriends affair with a marriage woman reflects his total lack of respect for marriage? Does that woman's husband know what your boyfriend did to him?

So, I agree with Sugarcane, the issue isn't AO's and DJ's [which are the norm in these types of relationships] but with your basic committment. There is no committment here.

You possibly could turn this around by developing new habits, but it would take a hell of a lot of work. And that would have to start with your BF's traveling job. Harley has a whole chapter about the curse of living together in Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.

You are not committed so you and your husband have always been free to pursue new relationships when something better came along. These were not affairs as you both are free agents. Check this out: Living Together Before Marriage:Compatibility Test or Curse?

If all you want is advice on how to stop your AOs and DJs, the answer is simple: you just stop doing them. I doubt that these solutions alone will solve your relationship problems, though. From what I can gather, it is not at all clear that he has ended contact with this woman.

It's interesting that he never managed to get married to you, but managed to marry someone else after he broke up with you. I'm sorry but I don't see much commitment here.

Well I appreciate that Sugar and I am not arguing with you on any particular point but I really just want some advice on how to get over the AO and DJ. I would gladly just stop if I could. If it were that easy no one would need advice we could all just read the books and be fine.

I am sorry, I rofl when I read this.

Thanks Melody I have already read all of the website and all of the books. As for lack of commitment I don't see me going anywhere since we are still working on getting married. He is working on EP has deleted his facebook and gave up all his female friends. He has freely given complete transparency, Is truly remorseful for what has transpired and with the NC letter he sent there is no contact I can assure you.

My point is that you are not committed. And because of this, you have both developed very bad relationship habits. Not to say you can't develop a marriage out of this, but remorse and a NC letter all miss the point.

The fact that he travels is a non starter, though. How will you solve that problem?

If I were in your shoes and wanted to pursue a real marriage with this guy, I would stay separated and just date for awhile while you develop new habits. Then set a date to get married and move in together then. But none of that is going to work if he travels for a living. You already know that doesn't work.

What about the husband of the woman he shagged? What is being done about that?

Sorry but if we were the only ones who developed very bad relationship habits and those habits only developed in unmarried couples, I might agree with that. But if this board and the books have taught me anything it's that we all have bad relationship habits.
I intend to go over the road with him which is why I need help with the AO and DJ. Thanks

Dr. Harley's book Love Busters lays out a procedure for stopping angry outbursts. He also discusses the subject very frequently on his radio show. There are some recent threads here that link to some shows you can listen to free in the archives that explain the basics of anger management.

But this isn't a dating relationship board, this is a marriage board. Surely you understand that dating is not the same as marriage? In order for you to fix your relationship, it is important that you understand the dynamics in a shack up situation. It is night and day.

The reason you have AO's and DJ's is because that is the rule in renters relationships. These are month to month tentative agreements based on a philosophy of win/lose and sacrifice. And when the score is not even, shackers tend to resort to abusive tactics to settle the score.

If you have read the books, like you say, you would know this, though. Did you read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders?

amibroken, you are asking us to treat your relationship as a "marriage" when YOU don't even treat it as a marriage. After all, it didn't even mean enough to go down to the courthouse and get married.

We are just dating he lives in another state. He never shagged anyone and she has been divorced and remarried and divorced again since he first met her. No husband to do anything about now.

Hang on there a minute. I didn't ask you to do anything but give me advice on how to deal with AO and DJ if you can only do that for married people so be it.

This isn't a married woman?