I read the article where Dr. Harley is talking about electric fence personality... I think this may describe my wife quite accurately. Any advice on this?

Ok so if she does, what are you going to do to get on her side of the fence?

When she is honest with you how do you react?

In the past if she told me something I didn't like I would get angry and scold her much like a parent. Going forward I will have to prove to her that she can confide in me and I will be supportive of her. I have told her that I did not trust that she would come to me if she was feeling un-safe in our relationship. I told her I didn't trust that she would be aware of our situation until boundaries had already been crossed and she was in too deep to get out of. I think only through my consistent support of her will she develop this trust and let me know where her fences are. I think I will show her the article some day and see if she sees any similarity in herself... but not today.

It is fairly clear now, I always felt abandon when she would pull away from me. I would then chase her and pull her closer to me to not feel abandoned. She was not leaving me she was just trying to get to safety. I have recently learned that when she pulls away she just needs her space, if I let her cool off for a bit she will find a way to cross the fence safely when she is ready.

RCX,
I am encouraged by some of your posts. You seem to have a good mix of reality and still protecting yourself and your marriage.
I can guarantee you will benefit from a call to Steve. It's expensive but very worth it. I would suggest talking to your wife about it and taking the action when yo both feel it's something you want - otherwise we're talking Indpendnet Behavior, in my view. If I could do that part again, I would have talked about the expenses of divorce in comparison with the expenses of trying to save a marriage. Even if you spend a couple thousand trying to get some sort of common language going, and then wind up going D, the 2 or 3 grand wrapped into the cost of the divorce will not even be felt.

Waywards are a hard sell because they just simply can't envision a happy marriage with their BS's. But Steve's approach is that the day you were married, you simply couldn't envision being in the situation you are in right? So logically, things CAN happen even if you don't see the possibility. Since divorce is so monumental and life changing (in spite of what one might hear from their workout partners), it's worth a shot to at least consider the possibilty of getting things on track. The right way this time - with a PLAN, since the plan you've had has lead you to this (I know you have a plan RCX, I'm talking conceptually here).

opt

So we spent the entire long weekend together, it was pleasant. We spent some time snuggling and talking every night before bed... yet she is still full speed ahead with the divorce??

I can see that her feelings are changing, she is much nicer to me lately. She compliments me and is very considerate of my feelings (these are her love languages not mine) much more than a few weeks ago. I have to believe that her giving me LB deposits is a good thing (even though the currency is wrong). I have been showing her affection without smothering her and she will react in a very loving manner at first, but sometimes she catches herself and pulls back.

We went on a "date" on Friday night and she asked how I was feeling, I told her I was sad that our marriage was ending. I also said I was kind of hurt that she was treating this divorce like a process and her biggest concern was what color walls her new house would have. She teared up and told me she understood but that this was her way of coping. She admitted that she tries as hard as possible to not think about it. She also agreed that she buries herself in her work and going to the gym so she doesn't have to think about divorced life. She said she really really likes work and the gym because everyone there is nice to her and gives her compliments (she has a huge thirst for compliments and praise). I have been trying to compliment her or at least notice everything she does lately, showing my appreciation for all of the little things yet keeping it genuine.

My guess is that your advice will be to stay the course and pursue some counselling with the Harleys. I know that my intentions will only be proven through consistent actions so that is not an issue. But right now I know she will totally reject any form on counselling.

On a side note she has been spending much less time at the gym over the past two weeks, and she leaves her phone on the charger when she is home. I have not found any new evidence of inappropriate behavior, but spending more time with me and less time at the gym and with her phone seem to be good signs.

RCX,

I would still call to Steve. It is told here that he is very good in talking WS's over. It is definitely worth of it. You may not get through to her yourself, but Steve can. Then you can actually say that you've done everything in your power to turn this thing around.

Take a look here : http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=6

I emailed my situation to them, they said they will review and email me back on how to proceed.

Agreed. Steve is the man. He has helped my WW come out of the fog and given me a plan as well. I doubt my marriage will be saved, there's just too much pain on my end, but at least now I know the truth about our relationship.

Call Steve. You won't regret it.

Of course every situation is different but approximately how many sessions should I expect to take?

I think you can buy a package of 3 or 5 sessions for less money per session.
I would record each session -- I did one with steve in my car on speaker phone with my VAR running. It was helpful to listen to it again.
You'll definitely need one session with you, one for her, and then at least one as a followup (maybe for both of you); to get the most benefit -- that would be my view.

I'm really glad you've contacted the radio show. I think that is a great place to start. I don't listen every day so I hople you'll post when its going to be on.

I still have apprehensions for you about spending money without consulting her -- it's IB, and plenty of it. I'd like to hear how other posters would address this. IOW, if sh'es not on board for counselling (which you don't really know by the way, from yor posts); then she certainly isn't going to be on board with spending cruise money on a talking session with someone she doesn't know half way accross the country.

I think you're on the right track RCX.

opt

--this is a huge opportunity rcx, which I'm sure you recognize. One of the best forms of RC per Dr. Harley is walking every night. 20-30 minutes. It's exercise, plus there's nothing to do but talk. Doesn't have to be a big deal going to the gym and all that, just a nice brisk walk after dinner. It's like a miracle drug for marriages. I hope you can do this.

opt

AJoseJake,

I doubt my marriage will be saved, there's just too much pain on my end, but at least now I know the truth about our relationship.

Steve may be able to help your WW overcome her addiction and live a better life. With or without you she is still your childs Mother, and for that reason alone is she is worth saving. With the path she is on she will end up with some psycho, drug addicted or with some horrible disease and your child will have only one parent left.

Yes it is difficult to comprehend 8 OM and she is still only in her 20s.

God Bless
Gamma

I have not purchased any sessions yet, I will definitely clear it with her before I do. In my email to MB I asked them how the best way to get my wife on board would be.

Her attitude towards me has been steadily improving over the past weeks. If it were not for the lack of kissing and sex I doubt anyone would be able to tell that we were having any problems. We have been talking more and more every day/night and she has allowed me to show her increasing amounts of affection. Last night I ran my fingers through her hair while she fell asleep, when she fell asleep I tucked her in and gave her a kiss on the forehead she told me "thank you honey". I am hoping over the next week or so she will show some willingness to work out our issues. This is when I will propose MB phone counselling.

The only need I can see anyone other than me meeting right now is admiration. People at work compliment her and tell her good job, people at the gym tell her how strong of a woman she is and how she deserves a great husband...etc. Can intimacy be built with admiration (I guess you can add RC at the gym)? I don't think RC is really that important to my wife for her it is more about affection and admiration. I hope she values my opinion of her as a wife/person/mother over her employers opinion of her as a worker.

we see a lot of false recoveries on this board so forgive me if I have some concerns about the lack of kissing and SF -- it often is because a wayward doesn't want to "cheat" on their AP. Believe it or not, that is how twisted the logic gets.

However, I share your encouragement and I still think you're on the right track.

I hope if you get dr. h on the phone you can have him address why workplace affairs are so common, and more importantly why people often feel more "appreciated" at work than at home. He has some good logic on that subject.

Concepts: RC IS an intimate EN. 1 of the 4. conversation, SF, RC, and Affection. So, she may not identify RC as a high EN, but it is part of an intimate relationship.
I would also submit that spouses in withdrawal often don't acknowledge an intimate need (SF, Affection, etc.); it's some sort of phenomenon I've read about here somewhere.

I would keep that in mind as you schedule your time together. Re-read about RC and how it strengthens a relationship; perhaps share it with her as further introduction to the material you've come accross that has helped you see things differently and helped inspire you to change the behaviors that she has noticed.

opt

In my email to MB I asked for advice on how to get my wife to agree to get on the phone with Steve. He called me personally today to answer all of my questions! So I told him our story and he said it does not sound like my wife is involved in an affair so to speak, but he thought she is in what he called a "fantasy" mode. He said she is most likely flirting to test the waters and see how she could do as a single woman. I would agree that this theory sounds like her personality, and most of the things she is saying/doing also support this theory.

He told me I seemed to be doing a great job and the changes in her behavior towards me are promising. He said the best thing I can do is keep explaining to my wife that the changes I have made are different this time because it is a "life style" change. I'm doing things now because I understand how important they are for our marriage, not just because someone told me I was supposed to do them. He stressed the importance of consistency in plan A because it can not seem fake, and told me she will have a very difficult divorcing the good husband I have become.

Her behavior around me is continuously improving, and she is opening up to me a little more every day. Last night she talked with me for quite a while about her job, this was a big step because a major love buster for her was when I make DJs about her job. She has avoided all discussions about her job in the past month or so, but last night she was telling me all kinds of things and asking for advice about her career.

For now I'll keep up the plan A and wait until I feel she will be receptive to some phone counseling. It will definitely take someone other than myself to get her fully on board to rebuild our marriage.

I have read many posts where divorced people are talking about how they wished they would have given it one more try and how the connection they had with their child's parent was so much stronger than the new connection they have with spouse #2. I really wish she would read some of this and give it serious consideration. I know I could get married again and maybe be happier with my new spouse than my current... but it would not be the same, we would not have the same family bond. I really wish she felt the same way, who knows maybe she does feel this way but is too scared to admit it to me or herself?

Good job RCX. I'm so happy for you for getting direction from Steve.

You sound like you have refreshed, new energy. Keep it up.

Very good job, RCX, very good.


Well, what you can do, is to print something out and accidentally 'leave' the pages on the table or somewhere she can see them. Try with those pages first which are positive, so that she might see what is positive about MB, what she can benefit in MB marriage. Along with some success stories.

Her behavior around me is continuously improving, and she is opening up to me a little more every day. Last night she talked with me for quite a while about her job, this was a big step because a major love buster for her was when I make DJs about her job. She has avoided all discussions about her job in the past month or so, but last night she was telling me all kinds of things and asking for advice about her career.

-yup, that's how LBs destroy a marriage, little by little. It's part of the "we've grown apart" eventuality. That you've recognized it, taken responsibility, and are making changes bodes very well for you RCX. I'm sure you understand the magnitude of it. You are now reversing the tide, that's monumental and to your credit. But it is a big tide, people are fragile, so time and sonsistency are critical. Dr. H was saying yesterday the tremendous capacity women have for REMEMBERING the hurtful things they have experienced (I think I'm part woman because I'm the same way).
Point: that you're listening and giving encouragement and admiration, must be so refreshing for her. You seem to realize that its more in line with a happy partnership to do so, your actions are sincere; and that will be your ultimate success. You don't need to worry about reverting back because you are being honest. It's going to to a long ways for you

Glad to hear you got Steve on the phone. He really is something.
I would continue to walk the walk and when and opportunity arises you can talk the talk (don't push it in her face, like we BS's often are tempted to do). "Honey, why are you being so supportive?" rcx:"It's called Admiration and I never realized how important of an EN it was until I discovered MB philosophy for healthy marriages". I like MRS R's suggestion but I also think waywards get suspicious when they see stuff printed out. "What was so important to print out and what were you planning to do with it?"
I'd just keep leading by example.

opt

Yes I like the suggestion to try to put a bug in her ear that your first marriage will always be your best... but she would not appreciate anything left around the house. She gets very suspicious about things like this. One time when she went on a trip, as a favor to her I loaded my ipod with a "top 40" play list (her type of music) that I downloaded. The play list contained the song "I need you now" by Lady Antebellum and she thought I strategically put that song in there to manipulate her.

The good news is that she has not discussed the divorce in a few weeks. Originally she had an entire list of things that needed to be done and agreements that needed to be made. She has not brought any of these up in the last few weeks. She has been looking at houses and property, but it is nothing that she can afford and the locations are not practical for her. I really hope this is all just part of the "fantasy mode" that Steve talked about, of course this could be just wishful thinking on my part?

It has been a little over one month and she has gone from getting irate when I try to talk to her, showing pain when I try to touch her, and avoiding interaction with me at all costs, to calling me to just chat once in a while, if I put my hand on her knee she will usually put her hand on mine (at least for a while), asking me to eat dinner at the table with her, and laying in bed making full eye contact and just talking about lots of things.

I keep wishing for a "lightning bolt" (figuratively not literally) to hit her and snap her out of this but I think it is more like making wine, it takes time and very consistent stable conditions to have a good end product.

Just keep doing what Steve tells you and your consistencies will be her lighting bolt.