No this has always been typical for her since the day I met her. Many people over the years (including therapists) have commented on how she has always seemed immature for her position in life. She never wants to talk about anything, she sweeps all conflict under the rug, and the only thing she gets real happiness from is shopping for clothes. She gathers most of her self worth from empty compliments from strangers. She has told me several times "the clothes make the person" and she has actually told our daughter "you should wear this shirt because the other kids will like you".

She is a very responsible mother who takes great care of our daughter, but she is also teaching her poor habits. I worry that my daughter will grow up with no self esteem like my wife if I am not in the picture as much as possible. I would feel like a complete failure if my daughter has the same value system and outlook on herself and life as my wife does.

Looking back I remember thinking how incomplete she was as a person. Like she was an empty shell trying to fill herself with brand names and labels. When she met me all she talked of was how we could build a big beautiful home on a lake... that didn't make her happy so she decided we should have a baby... that didn't make her happy so she talked about how we should build a new bigger house on a better lake. When I put the brakes on this new house that is when she started getting restless. Telling me I didn't respect her wishes to build a new house (and rack up more debt), telling me how she deserves better and how I don't care about her wants or needs in life. I knew going into marriage that she was not the "right one" for me but I always thought we would grow into each other. I admit I have been a hostile husband at times but nothing worth getting divorced over.

She rarely shows any emotion other than a smile which can turn to a furious scorn at the drop of a hat. She is either happy as a clam or calling a lawyer for a divorce, nothing in the middle. I have come to realize that she is a spoiled child who wants to be in her club alone where she does not have to share with anyone else or allow them to vote on what is done.

It took divorce to humble me to my soul and make me really take stock of what I value in life, I wish I knew what it would take to humble her. She thinks a new house will make her happy, or maybe a new boyfriend, someone more outgoing and friendly who likes to take more vacations and looks up to her (her words not mine, I imagine this was the guy who turned her down). In reality she will not find happiness until she reaches rock bottom, looks at herself in the mirror and asks "who am I, and what am I doing". Rock bottom happened for me a little over a month ago, not sure how long it will take her?

Was she ever abused as a child?

She says she was never physically abused but she did tell me that her dad was very hard on her when she was a kid. Of course hard is relative but she says he would go to her sporting events and constantly yell at her. Always yelling to hustle up or get the rebound...etc, except he was yelling at her and not supporting her. She said she was very embarrassed and hated him for it. Unfortunately I see her doing some of this to our daughter some times, she looses patience very quickly and snaps at her.

She was also overweight as a child so that probably contributes to the insecurity and low self esteem. She is a beautiful woman now but always thinks she is fat or this looks bad or that looks bad.

It would be interesting to hear what steve might say about converting a renter or freeloader into a buyer. I have the book but haven't read the whole thing, I know enough to know that people go through different stages in their lives; I was surprised to know that we are all those things at different times.
I don't know about past childhood experiences or upbringing. I do believe that MB/Dr. Harley tends to disregard as most of that can be transcended with a Plan for modifying behaviors which then leads to modified brain chemistry. RCX, you have experienced this in just a short time. You will continue to see your behaviors elicit different outlooks on certain things. It's quite amazing. At one time, I couldn't imagine going a week without a beer. Now I don't really know why I would want one. I had a bad habit of AO's, now the thought of it is repulsive.

I had a conversation with someone today who had some insight into your situation. I hope you can hang on because I don't have time to elaborate right now. Maybe tomorrow. stand by please.

opt

Opt,

I'm not going anywhere and I'm still not going to fast-track our divorce. She will have to put up with my pleasantness and loving supportive demeanor for another 4 months minimum!!

I definitely agree that modified behavior will change brain chemistry to make changes permanent. But it takes conscious continued effort to initiate the changes. The person has to want to change themselves, if the person in question never strives to be better no changes can be made. She will somehow have to see herself from another point of view and realize she is not the best person she can be. Since a major love buster for her is any sort of feedback which is not 100% praise I really doubt she will ever think on her own "am I really the best version of myself".

Basically I think she will either have to become a buyer in the near future (will have to hit rock bottom) or realize that there are no better rental properties available (come back to reality). Of course I want no. 1 but I would be OK with no. 2 if she would at least entertain the idea of looking at MB concept.

Honestly I feel good right now, no pressure, no expectations, I'm living for myself and my daughter now. I have some good leads on a new home if it comes to that. I know I will be fine, I know that I am much stronger mentally and emotionally. Yes I will be lonely at times and I am scared of the life changes ahead but I know I will be able handle anything that comes my way. I am a fighter and a survivor, I always have been and always will be. I have a great support team here and my family has been wonderful, I am so proud of them and I have told them how much I love them.

I look forward to you posting your friends insight.

Thanks again

RCX, Dr Harley believes that childhood has nothing to do with marital problems. If you read the link about Can one spouse save a marriage? then in letter 2 for example he said that

More here

My father was an angry man, too, he was quick to punish us more often than I'd like to remember. I have been struggling with my weight in and out during my whole life. But my choice to be unfaithful and treat my H like crap had nothing to do with that. It was my fault entirely.

So this is not an excuse.

I don't understand couple of things.

- You say there is no infidelity activity based on your sources. Some while ago you reflected over the possibility that there might something going on at her workplace you have no access to. Then you came to the idea to ask her workplace IT department for help. Why have you chosen not to contact her IT department?

- Do you want to have a divorce yourself and why? If she were not that wayward would you like to stay married to her?

I very much like the idea Steve told Optimism. That would be something to try. I am a little confused over this, though, I mean I don't have an idea what lines to actually use to get under the skin of WW who only understands me-me-me, but doesn't understand US, but the MB is about US not ME. Maybe Opt or someone else have ideas which words/lines to use.

Welllllllllllll, not exactly a friend.

Your wife sounds so much like my exww I felt compelled yesterday to break one of my rules with her. I asked a bit of a personal question. There are risks involved but I feel there is enough water under the bridge and we are both pretty reasonable people, so I indulged my curiosity and pursued some info for your benefit hopefully.
I set up the scenario as is and explained that I was wondering how to advise you. Particularly how to respond to the old "you're badgering me." See my exww was like that toward the end, just defiant as hell. The more I wanted to know what was going on in my marriage, the more she acted like a selfish teenager.

She (exww) was very insightful though. She said that everything I tried was all wrong (to that point - I agree that I was not carrying out the MB plan very well. I was way to impatient and stressed out. You seem to be more of a cool customer and that I believe is much to your credit and will lead to a better result.)

Her insight was that what I should have done was "separate" from her and let her see how hard things were really going to be. Now, she still knows nothing of MB. But the translation of that is: Plan B.

She went on to say that things were much harder than she ever thought they were going to be without me. She didn't elaborate on what exactly was harder - the finances, the emotional part, the loneliness....I don't want to know. I feel bad enough for her as it is. She's alone, One guy (OM#2) she still hangs around a couple times/week in a most likely platonic relationship (the kind that still breaks up a marriage when coming off a full "ILYBNILWY" relationship with someone else); but he's a loser. Her friends are married and she is working so hard she doesn't have the time or energy to go out and meet people. Her back is bad, probably from the stress and extra work (she minds a couple of babies).

This is a woman who once commanded the attention of every man within a 5 mile radius, knowing how to carry herself and to dress in a classy way, cute, bubbly, and (apparently) affectionate. She probably thought they would be falling all over her once she got rid of me. Well, they're not.

She wanted to talk to your wife. She sounded very sad for her. She also said, however that some people are just so shallow, that they can make it "work" for them. She cited a former friend of ours who went through the process and had a boyfriend within weeks to "take care of her." Unfortunately, this woman, in my view, is a complete mess. Her daughter was friends with my daughter and is now so wrecked you can see it in her face and her behavior has completely changed -- the mom is hardly ever home, out partying a lot, going to casinos and drinking. Frankly I'm not even sure the D is final, it's a disaster and even if someone is "taking care of her" now, these aren't the type of men who stick around.

I wish your wife would really open her eyes to some of the reality of the situation. There is death and destruction all around her, but it's disguised as glitter and gold. She just doesn't get it yet.

opt

Mrs. Recon.

I completely agree that our past has nothing to do with who we will become. However I do believe our past sets us up for who we are or were. I learned how to be a man and a husband based on my father... it was up to me to realize that my lifestyle and family dynamic is completely different from the one I was raised in. I had to step back and realize that what worked for my parents will not work for my wife and I and make changes accordingly. I had to think about what my dad did to me that I didn't like and decide to never do those things to my children... but again it is the individual who has to recognize the need to change.

It took me a long time to realize that I can not go through life just doing what I felt I should do at the moment. I finally realized that even though I feel like I am doing the right thing, my actions can sometimes have a negative impact on others. So now I kind of look at things backwards, I figure out the end result I want and find a way to make that happen without pissing anyone off. It is not always easy and I have to manage my emotions carefully but I am getting better every day.

She on the other hand is still completely reactionary, she doesn't understand her behavior and how it impacts others. If I ever told her how something she did hurt me she would say "oh big tough man is hurt by little old me". If she is in a good mood she is warm and loving but if she is not, she is a cold ice queen. The therapist told me it was sad that my wife can not see how her actions impact others, she said my wife would probably never recognize any of her faults until other relationships in her life started to break down. The other problem is my wife surrounds herself with people of poor moral character. These people don't challenge or inspire her to be the best person she can be, they are low life enablers.

As for the work thing I did contact the IT department and they monitored her for a few weeks and said it was mostly business stuff with some personal texts to her friends, but nothing romantic or inappropriate. Her actions and behavior also suggests that there in no one else.

Opt,

I really appreciate you asking your XW about my situation, it sounds like she had some good insight. I think she is right, my wife has no idea how hard it will be, she is only being selfish and thinking about herself right now. But right now I am still not ready for plan B.

I'm not sure what to do right now, it has only been a month and a half of plan A. At first I saw signs of life but lately she has been a zombie without life or emotion, we are only acquaintances in the same house. I'm not sure what happened but this weekend I think I jarred something loose. Maybe it was me standing up for my rights as a father, or maybe she got a glimpse of what divorce will mean but she seems to be showing some emotions again. Another thing is that she seems to be grasping at things, to justify her decision. Yesterday she called me for no reason, we chatted for a bit and I told her I was sorry for the mis-understanding we had in the morning. She said something like "well you see this is exactly why I know i'm making the right decision" She would be the only person in the world to take what I said and interpret it the way she did. Then she started talking about how I said this and that all weekend long, she said I was constantly jabbing at her. These were stupid things like if I would have said "looks like it's going to rain soon" she would interpret it as "because you took too long to get ready we will have to drive and walk in the rain... it's all your fault and I hate you". What is this.. where does this come from?

I would love it if your ex could talk to my wife, but right now she would not take it well. Maybe if she sent an email and I could present it to her later when I feel she is ready? But right now I'm not sure if it would do any good, she would probably only feel judged and belittled. If you could keep the option available I would appreciate it.

Finally the root cause of all of this is that she just has too thin of skin. I admit I can be a bear at times but I truly believe I have that under control I am probably about average now as far as "aggressive" behavior. She needs to realize that she will never be able to have any kind of relationship until she develops some capacity for conflict and some self esteem. Self esteem that comes from overcoming adversity not from someone telling you "nice shirt" or "good job on that power point". Coming to this realization has brought me a lot of inner peace, that it was not only me that brought us here, realizing that no matter who she would have married she would have ended up here also.

I have to admit, RCX, that your story doesn't add up.


Let me tell you how this seems over here. Your WW shows and talks wayward. She doesn't have an affair, yet she wants divorce.

You have told us that you have been hostile towards her and you talk about her ... real bad (in fact, I haven't detected anything you admire about her or have admired in the past) - we all know how childish and shallow she is, and yet she is a woman you fell in love with - and like you were forced to marry her or something like that. She is not having an affair. And you seem somewhat casual about snooping, like it is not really a subject at all. I strongly suspect that her "affair" is just a cover-up story to what is really going on.

Have you had an affair yourself and/or treated your wife really bad?

Am I completely wrong?

Sorry little more information
Mrs Recon you asked "- Do you want to have a divorce yourself and why? If she were not that wayward would you like to stay married to her?"

I do not want a divorce but I do not want to be married to HER any more. I want her to grow a back bone and hold me accountable, if I am doing something that bothers her I need her to have the strength to tell me. If there is something wrong in our marriage I want her to take a stand and protect our family by raising the issue, not texting some other guy or running to a lawyers office. I want to be married to the beautiful strong confident woman that she pretends to be during the day, not a scared selfish spoiled child.

Also I have tried to appeal to her selfish side telling her we could build her real dream home and go on vacation several times a year if we stay together. Basically stating that we could live like rock stars if we work things out, she said "its not about any of those things, I just don't want to get hurt any more". She has asked me to not expose my daughter to any women I meet after divorce and said she will do the same. She wants my daughter the majority of the time so she will not even be able to date or live the party life. When she says these things she she does it in a very humble tone (like a protective mother), so I do not think this is fog babble. I honestly think that she is just too weak to be in a real relationship, she just wants to be alone with my daughter.

I'm hoping that her "grasping" at reasons to get a divorce is a sign that she is still torn, and is struggling to convince herself it is the right decision. She has lost a lot of weight and I have noticed she is starting to show signs of hair loss since she has filed, the stress is definitely taking its toll on her.

Mrs Recon,

Not really sure how to respond to that? No I have never had an affair cheating is something I take very seriously. I have not even flirted with another woman since we were engaged. She had a texting "fling" about 2 years ago when our problems reached a breaking point and tried to start another fling about a month ago when she first filed for divorce but this one never went anywhere. Since then I have been monitoring everything possible as much as possible and have not found anything. Yes I am sure she is flirty with every guy she meets, I'm sure she conducts herself in ways that are un-becoming of a wife but what can I do follow her around everywhere she goes? It makes me sick that she has stopped wearing her wedding rings, advertising that she is available now. I have told her that we are still married and until the divorce is final she is still my wife, I would appreciate if she wore her rings until then. She will wear them for a few days and then take them off for a few days.

Yes I admit I have treated my wife poorly in the past, I have made tons of DJs and had many AOs, but never cheated or physically abused her. I have always provided for her and tried to give her the "things" she always wanted but I was not supportive of her like I should have been. I didn't understand what her needs were... I didn't understand what my needs were. I think I treated her poorly mostly because I too was a child and had not learned about POJA or emotional needs or anything like that but I know some hostile actions were to get a "rise" out of my wife, any sort of reaction to show that there was someone alive inside of her as she can be very cold most of the time.

We are both guilty of committing AOs and DJs to each get our way in marriage, we were two married children fighting over toys, I understand that now. But I have grown up and seen the error of my ways, every day I try to demonstrate how I have grown, she has not. I desperately want her to grow up and become the woman she should be.

You ask what I admire about her, I admire her ambition, I admire her eternally positive attitude, I admire how she can go into a room and brighten it with her attitude, I admire her as a mother.

Honestly im not sure if I have ever completely loved her, I think I loved the person she could be but never the person she was. I know this sounds terrible but I am just being honest. I grew up in a family that demonstrated tough love, I have realized that some of my DJs were intended as tough love but I now know that tough love has no place in a marriage.

Have I been the best husband to her....no, if I treated any other woman the way I treated her would they want to file for divorce... probably not. Most likely they would have sat me down and told me "look you are really pissing me off when you do that, please stop". But she has never done this, if something is bothering her she does nothing until it gets so bad she wants to cheat on me or get divorced. I think the issue between us is kind of a perfect storm. I was raised in a family with tough love, compliments were hard to come by, and nothing was stronger than family. She is a very sensitive person, needs constant praise and there is really no family bond.

From her side she is married to an un-appreciative, abrasive husband. From my side I am married to an un-committed shallow immature woman. It has not been good for either of us but since I have found MB I have completely changed my ways. Perhaps it is too late for us, I don't know yet but I have realized that it is not JUST me. I read stories on her about husbands that are serial cheaters and expose their wives to STDs, who come home drunk and beat their wives and children, who gamble away their entire life savings and these women still love their husbands and fight for their marriages! I have never been a monster or terrorist, I also have never been a cuddly teddy bear. Both therapists who we have seen have told me that in a "normal" relationship my actions would not be cause for divorce. They would definitely cause some issues in a marriage but no where near a divorce.

No one here is perfect, I have hit rock bottom and seen the error in my ways. Every day I try to be a better person in every way possible. I am still learning but I am learning fast. I originally posted this thread in the divorcing divorced category but when I found her latest texting I asked to move it here. I have never said that the problems in our marriage are all my wife's fault, but I know they are not all my fault either. If it is too late for my marriage then it is too late, I can say I did my best to save it. But it is especially frustrating when my wife says she wants to end it because she has been fighting so hard to keep us together for the past two years. All she did was to to therapy and sit there telling me how my emotional needs were "stupid" and "its not important to me so it shouldn't be important to you" or "you married the wrong woman if that's what you want".

Again I fight because of the woman my wife could be, not the woman she is. I fear that I have never created a nurturing environment for her to mature in, I have never set a good example to inspire her. Honestly we should have never gotten married, we were both too immature but that is water under the bridge. I am trying to rebuild what could have been with a solid foundation. All I want is for her to come look at the footings and say "hmmm these look better than the original ones, maybe this will be stronger"

Just a couple observations RCX. The married children idea indicates to me that the LB most likely is SD. Usually you get AO's, and then progressing to DJ's, when you start out with Selfish Demands (instead of respectful requests). I think this is a common feature of today's couples, for whatever reason. I know, in retrospect it was a big part of my marriage. I am just realizing that now (perhaps because in the relationship I'm in there is such a dramatic absence of SD's). SD's, in my case also lead to IB - "if I can't ask for what I want and be sure to get a 'yes', I'll just go ahead and do it." This is how I wound up rendering my wife a baseball widow for many months of the year for a couple years; she really didn't have much of a say in my decision to delve as deeply as I did into that world (coaching, managing, taking my kid to all clinics, being on the board of baseball league, spending all sorts of money on baseball, etc.). So, what I'm getting at is that if you look deeper do you see any propensity for SD's in your marriage? (from both sides).

Then, the question I asked myself, again, after many months into the divorce, was why all the SD/IB's? Why? What was wrong with me/us that I felt I had to just do whatever I wanted without consulting my wife? I came to the conclusion (after hearing one of the radio show discussions), that neither one of us had any real ability to NEGOTIATE. Now, I wa s managing a department at work, have a master's degree, and I know how to deal with people. That however doesn't have anything to do with knowing how to negotiate with my wife. [in my family, growing up, there was IB galore, and I never really saw my parents talk about anything; Father quite overbearing really, but that's just background]

There is an article on this site about how to negotiate successfully with spouse. Hopefully someone can direct you to that (or you can find it). It's really good and worth reading.

I have to say that as much as your ww reminds me of mine a couple years ago, you also remind me of me in your thinking. Especially the last couple of posts. I had the great faith in my spouse that she would gradually mature, like a good wine or something. Probably unfair, but I truly believe that people can become what is ideal for them and for their family. However, I also have now come to realize that, as I said a few weeks ago, as long as you can negotiate to have a spouse who provides you with your most important EN's (especially the 4 intimate EN's), you can be in love. So, this approach essentially negates all the tendencies of someone to be "selfish, shallow, self-centered"; IF they subscribe to the philosophy that it's a partnership of meeting each other's EN's (so that I can get MINE met too...)

The whole thing takes on monumental importance because there are innocent kids involved.

I have little time, and so many other observations for you latest posts, but I have to leave you with this:
I work with people who are in their late 60's to 90's. Many of them are married 50 years. Many of them seem to be in love like they just met. I wonder how that happens. Then I think, they had to have some tough times. Had to. It's inevitable. But they didn't have the option of divorce (it wasn't vogue until the 70's right?). I wonder if people in our generation just don't have the patience to weather the storms. I hope you do. I hope your wife does. I hope you can look back in 20 years and say "I'm glad we stuck it out and took the time to learn about MB concepts"

I was glad you are willing to give it some months. You are true man of character and will build more in that time. With some luck and perseverance, I believe your ww will come to see things, gradually, in a different way.

opt

Is this the one you're talking about?
Four Guidelines to Successful Negotiation

I would agree that it all started with SDs mine was for SF and when she would tell me something like "were married now you shouldn't need it as much" or "I don't need it as much as you so its not my problem" it would cause me to have AOs or DJs.

Her SDs were for a new house or wanting another child. When she told me we should try to conceive a child 2 weeks after the first time she called a lawyer to file for divorce I said something like "WHAT you cant be serious, last week you wanted a divorce and now you want another baby"! In hindsight I should have handled it better but really 10 days ago you were sure you didn't want to spend another day with me and now you want to grow our family???? As for the house I entertained that idea, we went to look at houses and property and even found a house plan we both liked but could never find property we both agreed to. Since I didn't give in to her and build in an area that I wasn't comfortable about she felt that I was not respecting her wishes so she now says this was mental abuse. After a few months passed we found out that my suspicions about the location were true and she even said "well its a good thing we didn't build there" however today she still tells me every time we talk that "you wouldn't build where I wanted to, you never respect what I want in life".

I completely agree with the difference between today's couples and those of our parents. That generation had the mindset that you fix things not throw them away.

I try every day to use the tools I have learned here. I am loosing faith that my marriage can be saved but I gain strength on my own knowing that I am becoming a better man.

RCX, thanks for your long answers.

Here's what Dr Harley says about why women leave men - Here

RCX, you have two really good articles to take a look at.

We appreciate you answering our questions. The good thing about this board/site is that there is a lot of support for those willing to do the work to go along with it. You seem to have it in you to say it like it is, and to hear it directly. That will go a long way for you.

I didn't know you had actually gotten in touch with the IT dept. That leaves the possibility that she has something going with someone really high up (or someone in the IT dept itself). For now, it seems like you're doing what you can and focussing on the right things. I believe that with the affairs, they tend to screw up eventually, say the wrong thing at the wrong time, or leave their affair phone out in the open; stuff like that. Just stay vigilent I would say.

Hey, rcx, I thought your wife was like my exww until I read this:

-Now it's just uncanny. I got to the point where I actually thought I was a total freak because I wanted to have intimacy more than 3x/year. Talk about emotional abuse. I think she actually has a sexual problem and I don't know that your ww is to that degree, but I got a chill when I read those quotes. I also got the old "None of the couples I know have sex..." -just sick stuff, and counselors are clueless...I just get nauseous thinking of that crucial aspect of my 15 year marriage.

SF is an important EN and has to be part of a relationship. Also, your marriage contract is an agreement to meet each other's important EN's. SF has to be handled carefully, because sexual aversions can develop. But the responses above constitute refusal to even try or to negotiate meeting EN's and need to be looked at seriously -- possibly leading to Plan B. Before MB I just didn't understand any of it. MB puts it all in clear terms. There are articles here on this subject as well -- I would definitenly recommend them.

I hope you can check out the Radio Show. These topics come up from time to time, Dr. Harley's approach (and hearing him voice them outright) is very powerful and eye-opening insight.

To clarify - were you in contact with Joyce about getting on the show? I think you have an interesting case -- mentioning Steve's theory of the 'fantasy' world waywardism is something I have NOT heard on the show, so might be something they'd like to talk about.

opt

This is another reason I make the observation about possible lack in negotiation skills. It's a killer in marriage because it constitutes major $LB withdrawals. After a while one has lost love for the other, not even knowing why perhaps and the offender never realized they were doing anything wrong. For me for instance it was the AO's- I would get better and reduce the frequency, but then have one and set the clock back to zero -- eventually she just stopped mentioning it; just like I just stopped mentioning our non-existant sex life. A better way is how Dr. Harley condones "complaining" - of course respectfully. And not "well you should just know" (ugh, that's just a setup for failure; nobody can read minds).

To me this indicates waywardness and not necessarily "fantasy" world (as I think recon said - she is cake-eating - and you're providing the cake), but hey I'm not in the business of saving marriages, I'm just giving my opinion. I can say that there are a lot of waywards who might not be in an active relationship but are "trolling" (as I've heard the term here). Or perhaps simply open to it and "advertising" such. My exww opened up a FB account during her "fantasy" period and put her status as "no relationship." In retrospect, I wish I had "exposed" this. "Hey, MIL, do you know your daughter is advertising herself as single on the internet? -- could you talk to her for me? I believe she is destroying her marriage but I can't have any influence over her. I think she's making a mistake by by considering another relationship before ending her marriage properly -- I think she is setting a very bad example for our kids. Could you talk to her and see if she'd be interested in giving the marriage one more chance? This is for your Grandchildren." -- and then wash rinse, repeat with about 20 other family members. Eventually maybe someone would get through. At the very least it would have made it very uncomfortable for her to conduct her wayward "fantasy" lifestyle.
I would expose the wedding ring thing. I bet a LOT of people who care about you would see this as highly concerning. It's not a hard thing for someone to bring up - "hey mrs rcx, I heard you weren't wearing your wedding ring, what's up?"

opt

Absolutely LOVE the idea!

How are things going, RCX?
~opt