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MelodyLane: Good job at affair killing!! The next step is not Plan A, but Recovery. The end of the affair should be demonstrated by a no contact letter to scumboy that is written by her, approved by you and sent together. Thanks for the great, informative replies. OK, I will not do any more exposure (it was fun, but quite nerve-wracking too). I have so many questions.... RECOVERY LETTER When I discovered the affair two weeks ago, she hurried wrote a "no contact" e-mail to him, showed it to me, and sent it. BUT, because I was watching her computer, I saw that she set up another e-mail account, and e-mailed him privately to say "Thank you for everything". She later admitted this deception. To me, this completely voids the "no-contact" letter, don't you think? Interestingly, he sent a reply to her indicating that I knew her passwords, which blew my cover. She was open about this, but she also wanted to know whether it was true. --> Does that mean I need to get her to write another letter? What about an apology letter to his wife? Pokerface: How exactly is WW starting to accept responsibility? This is a great point. Basically, before even seeing these rules, she had already agreed to all the points EXCEPT for "no overnights apart". She is taking a hula class, and they are having an event several hours away, which required an overnight stay. To be honest, I was a little uptight about her spending an overnight away, but I just didn't say. Thanks to you, I will now give this first priority, and stick to my guns. "Consequences of her actions", right? Is this worth having a large fight over? (I suspect your answer is yes....) I am looking closely at the other rules too. Great stuff! I can see how these are based on tried-and-tested experience. I can't thank everyone enough! I will still fight these battles, and yes, I am working harder at meeting her emotional needs too.
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JD, What was your condition if she broke NC What did she say about the new email account?
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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What was your condition if she broke NC What did she say about the new email account? I didn't give any condition. I just accepted her promise at face value. But I did kick her out of the house after I found out that she had met him not once (as she said at the time), but THREE times, and had a physical relationship. In fact, it was shortly after I kicked her out that I started this thread. Normally, what conditions can I make? Separation? As someone on this thread mentioned, ANY contact means that the affair is still going on. WHY SHE SENT IT She said that she needed to say "Thank you" to bring closure. I guess that means that she just could not end the affair with the rough tone of the original "No Contact" letter.
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Wow she's still very foggy. Some WW have a longer time to come out of the fog than most WH.
You tell her " I will not live in a M with three people and if we D I will not play Mr. Nice guy" You make it clear you will not make it easy and have a "friendly" divorce.
She will thank you later when she comes down from her high and out of the fog.
She needs to understand she doesn't need closure. Closure are for cabinets and doors.
Contact resets the clock.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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You could also ask for a poly.
Don't threaten anything you aren't going to act on.
Keep verifying NC. False recoveries can be more painful than the first Dday.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Actually, the "additional e-mail" happened two weeks ago, and so I think that they have had no contact since then.
But if she does not accept the "no overnights" condition, am I OK in threatening separation and divorce?
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Actually, the "additional e-mail" happened two weeks ago, and so I think that they have had no contact since then.
But if she does not accept the "no overnights" condition, am I OK in threatening separation and divorce? Yes. No over nights is a precaution that Dr. Harley recommends and insists on. Read this Requirements for Recovery These are some of your conditions End all contact WITH OM for life Complete transparency. Extraordinary precautions No over nights Read this What to do with an Unfaithful wife
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Actually, the "additional e-mail" happened two weeks ago, and so I think that they have had no contact since then.
But if she does not accept the "no overnights" condition, am I OK in threatening separation and divorce? "This is what it will take to keep you in the marriage." No fights JapanDude. Cool and calm like James Bond. Can you go with her to the hula event and drive her home yourself? Why does OM say you have all the passwords and what does it matter anyways because she should have already given them to you when she agreed to be transparent in her life.
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
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Also this Recovery After an Affair Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover Aaccount for your time Spend as much time with your husband as possible
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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BrainHurts: Yes. No over nights is a precaution that Dr. Harley recommends and insists on. Thanks. I got it. I will first praise her efforts at openness and to move forward over the past week, and I will say, "But there is one more additional thing that we need to move ahead in our marriage." Pokerface: "This is what it will take to keep you in the marriage." No fights JapanDude. Cool and calm like James Bond. Can you go with her to the hula event and drive her home yourself? Your image of James Bond is great. I can do that. About the hula event, actually, that WAS the original plan! But guess what happened? I was barely able to work over the past three weeks (I'm freelance), and my wife and I shuttled back between Tokyo and here due to our temporary separation. And so, we are short on money (nothing disastrous, but we no longer have any disposable income). Basically, this is one indirect impact of the affair. In a way, I think that she needs to accept that we cannot do this event BECAUSE of the affair.
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So how much UA time are you getting a week?
And what RC are you doing together? You need to do the things that you did when you were first M and dating. You need to court her again.
No lovebusters. None nada. You need to fill up her lovebank.
What are her top EN?
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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In a way, I think that she needs to accept that we cannot do this event BECAUSE of the affair. I agree. JapanDude... this is really important...do not engage in any fights or AO (angry outbursts). Do you have the book SAA? If not, start reading everything you can here beginning with the how to survive infidelity link on the right of this page ------>>
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
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So how much UA time are you getting a week? Work is slow now, and so we are getting about 2 to 3 hours in the evenings after the kids are in bed. Plus, during the day (I work at home), we have been going on long walks to the park around noontime (about 1 hour). It will be tough to keep this up once work gets busy again, but I will try. She likes regular "skinship", saying "I love you" in 1001 different ways, and me doing little things like making her tea. In terms of time and effort, these are actually quite easy and reasonable, and so I have been working 100% at doing this for her. So far, so good. My DD12 has even said that I have been doing a good job.
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Skinship? Is this a fancy word for SF? Admiration? Check this out The Most Important Emotional Needs and let me know. I'm very concerned about your UA time when you go back to work. What is your plan of action to keep your UA time at 20 until you maintain that love? KWIM?
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Skinship? Is this a fancy word for SF? By "skinship", I just mean physical displays of affection. From wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_intimacy): The term "skinship" is a Japanese-English term used to describe the intimacy, or closeness, between a mother and a child. Today, the word is generally used for bonding through physical contact, such as holding hands, hugging, or parents washing their child at a bath. BrainHurts: I'm very concerned about your UA time when you go back to work. What is your plan of action to keep your UA time at 20 until you maintain that love? You are right about the 20 hours of UA, but I will make it a priority. pokerface: Anyway, I broached the subject of "no overnights apart". We had quite a heated discussion. In the end, she agreed to follow it in principle, but she also pointed out several exceptions -- if one of our parents suddenly fell ill (hers in Tokyo, mine in U.S.), if she gave birth in a hospital, and of course, her "competition hula" class. She would not budge on this issue. Some of her points are valid. All of her weekly classes are geared toward this competition, and so not participating in the competition would be like a basketball player practicing but not playing in a game. Since the competition is still 4 months away, we still have time to save up and go as a family. In return, she promised not to return to the Tokyo area alone "for several years" and the same for other overnight trips. Still, forcing her to give up her competition would be, in her words "taking away her best chance to make my best friends and have fun after our move". I bent on this issue, and since I am freelance, I told her that I would work extra to make this possible, but I also needed her full cooperation and support. She seems willing to do that. I know it's not quite the best solution, but it's the best that I could do, and she seems sincere.
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In return, she promised not to return to the Tokyo area alone "for several years" and the same for other overnight trips. So the plan is to just affair proof your marriage for a few years? What about after that? Will it be ok to risk your marriage after a few years?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So the plan is to just affair proof your marriage for a few years? What about after that? Will it be ok to risk your marriage after a few years? My thoughts too exactly. But she would not budge. I guess the only way I could get her to relent would be to promise that we would visit Tokyo (where her family still stays) once a year or so. Then, there would be NO NEED for her to go alone.
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So the plan is to just affair proof your marriage for a few years? What about after that? Will it be ok to risk your marriage after a few years? My thoughts too exactly. But she would not budge. I guess the only way I could get her to relent would be to promise that we would visit Tokyo (where her family still stays) once a year or so. Then, there would be NO NEED for her to go alone. JD, extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair are not negotiable. I would let her know that. You can go together or she doesn't go. She is not taking this very seriously and I am concerned.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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JD, extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair are not negotiable. I would let her know that. You can go together or she doesn't go. She is not taking this very seriously and I am concerned. She says that I am using her past to "control" or "punish" her. She nearly threatened to leave over this issue, and so the question is how far do I push it? I did indicate that I was not pleased with her partial acceptance, but we have sort of stopped there....
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JD, extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair are not negotiable. I would let her know that. You can go together or she doesn't go. She is not taking this very seriously and I am concerned. She says that I am using her past to "control" or "punish" her. She nearly threatened to leave over this issue, and so the question is how far do I push it? I did indicate that I was not pleased with her partial acceptance, but we have sort of stopped there.... Whether your marriage ends up a success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. Extraordinary precautions are not negotiable.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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