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Brain,
I will be sending the letter tomorrow. She is coming to pick up the kids tomorrow morning and I dont want her fresh anger/emotions to come out around the kids when she sees me in the morning.

This will give her all next week to think on it because the way the kid schedule is set up during the week we wont see each other until next weekend.

Now, as I said earlier, I'm not afraid to confront her after I send the letter, I just wanted to be sure the kids werent around.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Brain,
I will be sending the letter tomorrow. She is coming to pick up the kids tomorrow morning and I dont want her fresh anger/emotions to come out around the kids when she sees me in the morning.

This will give her all next week to think on it because the way the kid schedule is set up during the week we wont see each other until next weekend.

Now, as I said earlier, I'm not afraid to confront her after I send the letter, I just wanted to be sure the kids werent around.
Sounds good. smile


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I'm gonna go back and re-read most of this thread but I just want to make myself a kind of response/checklist to use after the letter is sent.

1. Send the letter

2. Don't respond to her calls or voicemails for an hour or so after she reads the letter. Then be nice and sweet but simple such as "I am sure sorry you feel that way. Thanks for letting me know. I have to run! Love you, dear"

3. After the letter when we talk, just reiterate my conditions as outlined and do not accept any alternatives

4. Continue to re-enforce that fact that "I think we can have a great marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness"

5. If she brings up the argument that she's been making all along that my neglect of her is the real issue behind all this then I just say something like "I have acknowledged my part in that and have made changes to not allow it to happen again and I am willing to forgive her for neglecting me" or "the Marriage Builders program will help us make sure this doesn't happen in the future".

What about the actual Plan? Just follow what I have read in SAA?


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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
5. If she brings up the argument that she's been making all along that my neglect of her is the real issue behind all this then I just say something like "I have acknowledged my part in that and have made changes to not allow it to happen again and I am willing to forgive her for neglecting me" or "the Marriage Builders program will help us make sure this doesn't happen in the future".

"Yes, you are right about the neglect in our marriage. This program will help us make sure this doesn't happen in the future..."

You have a great plan there, my friend! hurray


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
What about the actual Plan? Just follow what I have read in SAA?

Harley lays it out really welll in this article: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thanks Mel.

I'm a little anxious and "at ease" about this all at the same time.

Anxious because this will more than likely tell me the direction of my marriage (repair or divorce).

"At ease" because it will give ME some direction.

Once the letter is sent to the WS, how long does it usually take for them to "decide" on which direction they want? Now I'm not asking for you to say that within 27 hours and 16 minutes she will be have made up her mind. I know there is no standard answer, but after the conditions are given does the WS take days, weeks, months to "come around? I also know it's different in every situation so this may be one of those situations to where the BS just implements until success or failure.

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Fight the good fight - send the letter and stick to the MB practices and principles thereafter. Remember, she has already "made" her choice; this is giving her one more shot to change her mind (back).

Do not get your hopes unduly raised. WWs come back to marriages about as often as Halley's Comet reappears.

You're doing what you're doing (beyond the slim hope of a return) to lay out to HER, satisfy YOURSELF in the future, and demonstrate to any THIRD-PARTIES (family, etc), that the destruction of your marriage was entirely on her choices and actions.

Recovery from infidelity is not always defined as reconciliation between WS and BS. It can also encompass giving the BS the self-strength to go forward unencumbered by thoughts of "Should I have...."

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NG,

"WWs come back to marriages about as often as Halley's Comet reappears"

I hate to say so but that quote is pretty discouraging. It makes it sound like this letter process as well as the rest of the program is pretty much a formality and doesn't have much hope for a positive outcome.

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Reality is reality, my friend.

The ideal "positive outcome" is for her to see the errors of her ways and re-commit to you and your family. Short of that, a secondary "positive outcome" is the one I referenced, where you, having had her destroy your marriage, move forward with your life free from any sense of shared responsibility for its destruction.

Do NOT underestimate the importance of that freedom, LFH, if that's the way this is to play itself out.

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I understand both "outcomes" but the idea that they most likely don't come back kinda takes the wind outta my sails.

I was fairly positive about the possible reaction she might have but am starting to seriously doubt that and starting to feel like this process was only meant for my sake. Pretty depressing.

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We have many stories on here where WWs did come back to the marriage. It ain't over til, etc. smile

Try to stay in empowerment mode, okay?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Once the letter is sent to the WS, how long does it usually take for them to "decide" on which direction they want? Now I'm not asking for you to say that within 27 hours and 16 minutes she will be have made up her mind. I know there is no standard answer, but after the conditions are given does the WS take days, weeks, months to "come around? I also know it's different in every situation so this may be one of those situations to where the BS just implements until success or failure.

It could be never, 6 months or 2 days. What matters is what YOU decide because you are now in charge of your life. She is no longer calling the shots. The drunk driver does not get to drive the car anymore. You are letting her know that you are the driver and if she wants to go with you, she can get in the backseat. But she no longer gets to drive.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I'm trying, but I'm starting to second guess...

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I understand both "outcomes" but the idea that they most likely don't come back kinda takes the wind outta my sails.

I was fairly positive about the possible reaction she might have but am starting to seriously doubt that and starting to feel like this process was only meant for my sake. Pretty depressing.

I don't agree that it is most likely she won't come back. In my experience it has been about 50/50 with wayward wives. I feel there is hope here. This is not too far gone, IMO, and believe me I would tell you if I thought that. I would give you 50/50 odds.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I'm trying, but I'm starting to second guess...

Stick to your plan. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Keep your eyes on the path we have laid out for you. THAT is your best hope.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I was fairly positive about the possible reaction she might have but am starting to seriously doubt that and starting to feel like this process was only meant for my sake. Pretty depressing.

I can't even believe you said that!!! twoxfour Let me ASSURE you that I would not be wasting TWO SECONDS on this thread telling you to try and save it if I thought it was over! I have a very busy life and have been in the process of moving during the past 3 weeks. I have to steal time to post to you here and there.

If I felt like this was hopeless, I would be telling you what I told rainy: get a damn divorce, it is over!!! I wouldn't be taking time from my marriage and career to give you FALSE HOPE!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I'm sorry Mel.

this situation is so overwhelmingly emotional for me that I have been on the brink of depression and tears at many points just about every day. It doesn't take much to bring me down from an optimistic high.

I am so much more grateful for you and everyone else than I have shown. I cannot express how thankful I am that everyone DOES take time out to respond to my posts even when I'm being stupid.

I will press on and will hope for the best. That's all I have. I do believe you because I have come to know that if no one else will, you will be brutally honest with me.

I'm actually surprised that the club you've had to use on me is not broken by now.

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It's just that ANY thoughts that come along about my marriage actually ending in divorce hurl me into a place I don't want to go.

I have to remember that I didn't WANT to go where I'm at and that I can only do what I can control to NOT go where I don't want to go.

Does that make any sense whatsoever? It sounded much better when it was in my head.

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It's not over until the divorce papers are signed.

Listen to these radio clips of Dr. Harley telling a BH to continue to Plan A and his WW has moved out and is continuing her affair with his once friend.
Radio clip of BH staying in Plan A and expose WW has moved out
Segment #2
Segment #3


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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LFH ... put it this way. You have already lost your wife. Your letter outlines your boundires for her return if SHE wants to agree to them. If not .. thats HER loss because your a NEW man now and forever and you KNOW what went wrong and how to fix it now.

You need to show her that YOU are the great catch (like you did when you courted her before you married) .. YOU have the back bone .. and YOU have too much respect for your self to put up with her antics and games. Do not give her any of your energy when she comes down on you about the past negative things .. you just state "Yeah .. well .. I am not like that anymore".

Make it CLEAR that you realize what went wrong in your marriage own your part of its demise .. and how it happened and your own contribution and that you will NO LONGER be that guy anymore ... you are a NEW MAN .. you have NEW BOUNDRIES and NEW SELF RESPECT and your happiness does NOT depend on your wife being in your life.(women are meant to be a part of our lives and contribute to the amplification of happiness but not the end all be all of your happiness) If you place too much reliance of your happiness on your wife then she will not respect you and this will drive her away. LEAD BY EXAMPLE.


You dont have time to jump every time she asks you (be pleasant but firm in everything) .. nor do you have time to play her mind games. State your conditions (which you did in the letter) .. tell her you wish to spend the rest of your life with her and your kids as a family and grow together and recover your love you once had and make it even better now that you have a new understanding and some great tools (marriage builders) to make sure that your marriage is fulfilling in the future and that you will be sad that she chooses not to recover but you will get on with life if she chooses not to be a part of yours.

Kill your desperation ... if you project ANY of that at all .. you have to get rid of it. Its weakness and she will use it against you.

Do not let your wifes mood effect yours ... Moods are infectious so make your mood (a positive one) more powerful than hers. Example of infectious moods? Ever notice how when somebody says something, and everybody else laughs, even if you don't think its funny, you often laugh too? Happiness spreads. If you act like you are always having a good time, laughing at jokes, etc. it will instantly put all the people around you into a good mood.

Likewise, if you are always down and depressed (i know .. its hard sometimes to beat off the depression due to your situation), people will want to AVOID being around you (including your wife), because your mood drags theirs down too. This is why i suggested you do things for yourself to keep yourself more positive (working out .. doing things with your kids etc). your wife will sense this and possibly realize hat she is missing out on by not giving you another chance.

Something else you could do is find out what it is she likes about the POSOM and be better at doing those things than he is ...

Keep fighting the good fight! But do not drop your self respect to be a doormat.

MNG

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