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MNG,

I think with everyone's help I am getting to the point of realizing that I need to take back control of MY life. Everyone has been telling me this for a while but I haven't been able to do that because when I married her (the real her) I promised to devote my life and everything I do to and for her. Then the kids came along and I made that promise to them as well.

I have come to realize (again, with everyone's help and beatings) that she doesn't deserve that from me right now. I am slowly taking back control of portions of my life a piece at a time. It just feels so unnatural because I am still love her very much (the real her).

She is still controlling some aspects of me and/or my actions. She is so un-trustworthy right now that I can't even trust that she won't come to the house to get stuff when I'm not here. Now, I do not in any way want to keep her stuff from her at all. I just don't trust her to just get her stuff. I also don't WANT to change the locks as my lawyer suggests.

I'm trying to not do anything in that respect that could set us back, but she's controlling that aspect right now because every time I know she's off work I obsess about it all day. Like today, I actually came home from work because I had a very strong feeling that she was gonna come by today...she hasn't yet.

I don't want to be like this, but she is pushing me to it. She told me she wouldn't come by when I'm not here but I have almost no trust in anything she says right now. I asked her this past weekend when she was over if she wanted to get some of her things that she needed and she refused. I don't get it! If she needed them so badly the other day, why didn't she get them this weekend?

I just had a thought that she probably went to see her lawyer today about this. I guess I'll hear about it from mine soon. That just came to me.

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what about changing the bolt only ... this way when she comes over without you knowing you would know she was there because she can not relock the door handle lock from the outside. The door handle would then be unlocked but the bolt would remain locked.

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I don't understand. If I change the bolt then she would not have a key to unlock it at all. She would be able to unlock and lock the knob.

Did I miss what you were saying?

The more I think about it the less I think it'll be an issue because I really think that's where she went this afternoon.

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I have always been a very patient person with anything that comes along in life....except this.

Get your 2x4s ready.

I know I'm just planting seeds right now but I feel like she reacted to the letter in a way that I kind of expected. I think she read it, laughed and put it aside. I feel like she doesn't care or want this to be fixed right now and she doesn't care what I have to say in regards to doing that. At this point, I think she probably just sees me as an obstruction to her idea of "happiness" and just wants me to finalize the divorce and get out of her way.

I understand that this is a very time-consuming process and I'm trying to be patient. It just seems that I have no patience when it comes to this situation. Especially when I can't see any progress at all. Maybe the progress is just not visible...I don't know.

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LFH, you're still laboring under some misapprehensions.

You seem to believe this sundered marriage can be restored by your actions alone. It cannot.

You fail to understand that the knowledge that you have today, that WW is basically entirely disinterested about making any attempt to work on her, is progress. You are now (hopefully) armed with the weapon of "recklessness", as you should be able to realize that nothing, within the MB program, you can do is likely to damage your chances of reconciling. Dude, right now they are DEAD. A Plan A/B cycle might re-invigorate the corpse, but surely cannot harm it.

You confuse "recovering from infidelity" with "reconciling the marriage". It many cases, "recovery" means a strong person facing the dissolution with confidence and satisfaction. ("Halley's comet" was an exaggeration; so was the 50% figure quoted later. I ran a quick survey of the odds in the two years I've been here. The "reconciliation" factor is WELL under 20%.)

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NeverGuessed,

I didn't read your entire story. Did you and your wife recover?

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Yes, we did.

My story is contained in the link below in my epilogue. You need only read the first three posts to learn all there is to know.

And I'll suggest, although it probably isn't politically correct enough for the amalgam of unproductive garbage that passes for "modern society", that the biggest differencer between my story (and mirrormirror's) and most other BH's tales here is the unfettered rage I exhibited.

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So I'm just curious as to why you have such negative thoughts and ideas about recovery when you and your wife ended up in the lower 20% of marriages that DO recover.

I'm very happy for you and your wife, but I just don't know if I understand why you seem to be so negative. Do I just read/take your posts wrong?

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
You confuse "recovering from infidelity" with "reconciling the marriage". It many cases, "recovery" means a strong person facing the dissolution with confidence and satisfaction. ("Halley's comet" was an exaggeration; so was the 50% figure quoted later. I ran a quick survey of the odds in the two years I've been here. The "reconciliation" factor is WELL under 20%

I also ran a quick survey and came up with 50%. I have an 11 year perspective, you have about ....what? 18 months? Since we are both guessing, my guess is as good as yours. And mine is much closer to the national statistic of 65% of marriages stay together after an affair. Your assertion that 80+% do not reconcile does not compute with any studies of which I am aware.

I am not sure how you feel he confuses personal recovery with marital reconciliation, but oh well.

The bottom line for lookingfor is that there is always a chance. However, you should live your life as If your marriage is over. And the marriage is over as it is. That doesnt mean there is no hope. And no one would fault you for walking away.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
So I'm just curious as to why you have such negative thoughts and ideas about recovery when you and your wife ended up in the lower 20% of marriages that DO recover.

I'm very happy for you and your wife, but I just don't know if I understand why you seem to be so negative. Do I just read/take your posts wrong?

I have no idea why his view is so negative either, eapecially on a forum where there are so many recovered marriages. Maybe he wants you to fail, I don't know. I do know you have as much chance as so many others here. The 20% figure makes no sense in view of the fact that 65% of marriages stay together after after affairs. Just as his did.

Another known statistic is that less than 5% of affairs last long enough to make it to marriage, so the odds of recovery are greatly in your favor.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
And I'll suggest, although it probably isn't politically correct enough for the amalgam of unproductive garbage that passes for "modern society", that the biggest differencer between my story (and mirrormirror's) and most other BH's tales here is the unfettered rage I exhibited.

What about all the other recovered marriages where the BH did not beat up the OM? I only know of THREE recovered marriages in 11 years where the BH beat up the OM. All the rest of the recovered marriages did not beat up te OM. So I would disagree with your notion that beating up he OM is the ticket to recovery. You have a better chance of going to JAIL than you do recovering your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Since we are both guessing, my guess is as good as yours.

Since you admit to "guessing" I'll claim honors by actually having done the math, okay?

The set I selected was BHs posting here, with WWs who did NOT immediately express remorse and desire to repair the marriage. Sounds a lot like LFH's case, does it not? Admittedly I limited my scan to roughly two years (Mar 10 - present). If you have a long list of successes in THAT category, my friend, I'd be fascinated to hear them all.

My REASON for giving LFH the honest truth was to reinforce to him the necessity of forceful and resolute action. (I think on that we are allied in our thinking, yes?) Dithering, doubting, half-measures, fears of WW's reactions - ALL of that contributes to the abysmal success rate.

Those are the facts. I don't rejoice in them. I just try to use them to gird any current BHs for their fight.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Since we are both guessing, my guess is as good as yours.

Since you admit to "guessing" I'll claim honors by actually having done the math, okay?

Sorry, but those are not the "facts." That is just your completely unscientific extrapolation based on a non-representative sample. That is not the "honest truth" and you should be ashamed for presenting such nonsense as "fact." It's not.

Secondly, in almost EVERY recovered marriage on this forum with a WW, the WW did not "immediately express remorse and a desire to repair the marriage." That is about as common as Sasquatch. Dr Harley often says that wayward wives don't express remorse. [he cites a study on this and his own experience]

I completely agree that his chances of recovery are abysmal if he doesn't take strong action, but that does not mean all marriages with a WW are doomed with a less than 20% recovery rate.

I have no idea why you are telling this man this crap. It just adds tension to an already stressful situation.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I'll stand with Melody here.

The only way to recover your marriage is to take action. Recovery is not guaranteed. Recovery may not happen in terms of your marriage. You, however, can recover on a personal level.

But avoiding conflict won't lead to recovery and neither will playing nice.

I speak from experience.

Granted, I'm glad I didn't recover, but I wish I had been harder up front so as not to have been railroaded and screwed in terms of custody.

That's why I advise so much in terms of legal protection and ensuring that you as a father are there from the start. My experience personally and through this forum is that men who fight up front end up with either 50/50 or primary custody while those that surrender and settle don't.

I don't believe protecting yourself legally is incompatible with MB. Just sometimes conflicts in terms of going to dark Plan B. Plan B is moot once you're divorced. At that point it becomes Plan Minimal Contact if kids are in the picture.

But if you're able to get an IM, then that's great.

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Rather than bandy words, my friend, and eventually falling to calling each other's positions "crap", as an admission of frustration with the intrusion of pesky reality, I'll repeat my proposal:

"If you have a long list of successes in THAT category, my friend, I'd be fascinated to hear them all."

And I would only be "ashamed" if I chose not to warn LFH what he is up against, for fear of being "chastised" for speaking the truth as I have seen it played out here.

But I will give you this: My expression "express remorse" was ill-chosen. It should have been "experience remorse".

Which is critical, as your fallacious rephrasing of my position to "all marriages with a WW are doomed with a less than 20% recovery rate" totally ignores the important qualifier of the WW's immediate mindset in my statement.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Rather than bandy words, my friend, and eventually falling to calling each other's positions "crap", as an admission of frustration with the intrusion of pesky reality, I'll repeat my proposal:

"If you have a long list of successes in THAT category, my friend, I'd be fascinated to hear them all."

I don't have to cite a "long list of successes" in order to refute an unproven claim. It is up to YOU to prove your claim, which you can't do. You might want to consider the fact that reading threads on the forum does not constitute a representative sample of BH's here, because the ones who can't seem to save their marriages stay on here much longer to receive help. The ones who do save their marriages, usually stop posting because they don't need help anymore.

Instead of trying to discourage this man with completely manufactured claims, why not try to help him save his marriage? He came here to get help saving his marriage, not to hear that it can't be done. How can you help him?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Which is critical, as your fallacious rephrasing of my position to "all marriages with a WW are doomed with a less than 20% recovery rate" totally ignores the important qualifier of the WW's immediate mindset in my statement.

Anyone who listens to Dr Harley and is familiar with the typical WW [in recovered marriages] knows that your "qualifier" is nonsense. Your "qualifier"

Originally Posted by Neverguessed
The set I selected was BHs posting here, with WWs who did NOT immediately express remorse and desire to repair the marriage.

is not a qualifier at all, but the standard WW reaction. They don't show remorse or a desire to repair the marriage. It does not predict the rate of success at all. Harley talks about it very often on the radio. Here is one recent radio show where he said this very thing to Rocketqueen:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3820
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3821


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Mel,

You mentioned taking "strong actions". I'm gonna look back at this thread but is there a list of some sort somewhere I can see of those actions?

I sent the letter but have not heard nor seen any real response. This is not uncommon from what I'm gathering. Are there other strong actions that I need to be practicing? Are those the actions in the book SAA?

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LF, strong actions would be things like exposure, confronting the OM, filing for divorce, protecting your finances, etc. Has your wife been served yet? Can you refresh my memory on that?

I believe you have done most of those things.

Have you confronted the OM?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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No more arguing on this thread. Please help this poster with Marriage Builders advice or refrain from posting.

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