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I honestly do believe that if he is actually still involved with her instead of her having the fantasy in her head that he's waiting on her, he's only doing it for the physical part.

Like I stated before, from some of the stuff I discovered of him and her talking, he is not the kind of person who will want someone with all her extra "stuff" (ex-hubby, kids, lawyers, court, someone poking around in his personal records, etc).

I'm trying to keep myself optimistic about the potential results of my counter filing, but I actually do think she is more "addicted" to him than he is to her. There's no telling what kind of baloney she's telling him about what's going on. I mean, if she will lie to everyone that's close to her, she probably wouldn't hesitate when it comes to lying to him.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I honestly do believe that if he is actually still involved with her instead of her having the fantasy in her head that he's waiting on her, he's only doing it for the physical part.

Like I stated before, from some of the stuff I discovered of him and her talking, he is not the kind of person who will want someone with all her extra "stuff" (ex-hubby, kids, lawyers, court, someone poking around in his personal records, etc).

I'm trying to keep myself optimistic about the potential results of my counter filing, but I actually do think she is more "addicted" to him than he is to her. There's no telling what kind of baloney she's telling him about what's going on. I mean, if she will lie to everyone that's close to her, she probably wouldn't hesitate when it comes to lying to him.


You're probably correct about her being more addicted than he is to her.

WW are usually more emotionally attached than WH to their OP, not all but most.


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I'm trying to compile my "bucket o' tools" for Plan A after she gets my counter claim. I know I'm supposed to avoid desperation at all costs, disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts and selfish demands (the Love Busters).

All the while that I'm NOT doing those things I'm supposed to be wooing her like I did when we first started dating. Well therein lies my need for some clarification. I've been thinking about this quite a bit the past few days while I have been compiling my post counter file game plan.

So when we first got together, the things I enjoyed doing were things like: sending her songs via email, text, etc., love notes everywhere, calling her to say hey, buying her small gifts that I would overhear that she wanted, etc.

I'm not really sure if any of those things are appropriate during Plan A. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the main purpose is to keep letting her know in small but impact-full ways that I am "the better choice".

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A couple other clarifications I need are:

1. Is there a "grace period" after she actually gets served before I start Plan Aing?

2. Do I basically ignore her rants and raves (because I'm pretty sure she's gonna go ballistic on me) and reiterate my conditions and that there is a plan we can follow to rebuild our marriage?

There may be more things I would like opinions on if anyone feels inclined to put their 2 cents in.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
A couple other clarifications I need are:

1. Is there a "grace period" after she actually gets served before I start Plan Aing?

No. Having her served is a part of Plan A.

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2. Do I basically ignore her rants and raves (because I'm pretty sure she's gonna go ballistic on me) and reiterate my conditions and that there is a plan we can follow to rebuild our marriage?

Just tell her you are so sorry she is upset, but you want to leave all that legal stuff to the lawyers.

As far as reaching out to her, I would be as genuine and pleasant as possible and look for opportunities to contact her. You don't want to appear desperate or phony.

And I very much agree with your assessment of the OM. If he cared one whit about your wife he wouldn't be having an affair with her. He will dump her at the first sign of real trouble. That is why I wanted you to spy on her and see what they are doing.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Just an observation/thought...

I think it's pretty obvious that my WW's affair is the worst case "soul mate" situation...or at least I feel like it is. Her emotional connection to this guy is deeply rooted all the way back to the beginning of her high school days. She married him (for a month) until she found out that he cheated on her (from what I have found out).

But, our whole relationship she has told me over and over that she believes in the idea that there is one person put on earth for every person to be with. She has told me multiple times over the past 12 years (total) that she knows and has known since we first met that I am that person for her. She has maintained that whole time that we are soul mates and that I am her best friend.

She has always treated me in the best possible ways our entire relationship and I have done her the same way. I have never been physically, emotionally or verbally abusive to her in any way. I have always tried to get her or help her get anything that she wanted that was within our monetary means. I do understand that material things are not what happiness is ALL about but I did these things because I wanted to do them for her. I enjoyed seeing her happy.

I'm writing all this to show how much more confusing her current behavior has been to me. I know there are others on this forum that have been through this same thing. I just know how emotional of a person she is and I don't know if her "bond" with the POSOM is going to be very easy to break to bring her out of the fog.

I would like to hear from any others who have been this far into (Plan D, I guess) and have been able to recover/reconcile before the final papers were signed. It has been suggested that I shouldn't be afraid of divorce because if she came out of the fog afterwards, we could always get back together, but I don't know if I could do that. My personality is such that if things go that far with her, I'm pretty sure that I would have lost too much of everything to allow myself to go back to her.

I know that may sound childish or whatever but I just feel that I wouldn't be able to do that. With that said, I also said my entire life that if my wife ever cheated on me, there would be NO discussion about it and that I would be gone. Divorce would be the result and I would never have anything else to do with her. Yes, I even told my WW that multiple times over the years.

But, here I am doing EVERYTHING I can think of and a lot of things I would never have thought about doing that this forum has directed me to do to try and save my marriage after her affair.

So I guess the point is that I should never say never huh?

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Mel,

She has made the spying very difficult for me with this stupid separation. I spoke to a PI and he told me that coincidentally the car that she drives is one of the more difficult ones to stick a GPS on to. Believe me...I would LOVE to do some more spying on her to see if she has actually been in contact or seeing him during this separation.

I say this with a little reluctance because I have been wrong SO many times in this situation, but I really think she's smarter than to try and physically meet him because I think she knows that I would use that against her in the divorce. Now, do I think they have been in contact in some other fashion...very possibly.

It does make me wonder though if the POSOM would still be interested after what I told him would happen if he didn't stop. He knew I was serious. Would he think I was bluffing? That's quite a big gamble. I told him that all his relevant records would be subpoenaed and that he would be put on the stand in court under oath. I just didn't get the feeling from him nor from some of the things he told her in writing or verbally that he was interested in her enough to go through all that. Are OPs willing to risk that?

This is kind of what makes me wonder if maybe she actually hasn't contacted him in any way during the separation and has just had the fantasy of being with him in her mind. Her emotions are very strong and drive her life in a huge way (always has). She's letting them drive her entire thought process right now because, in my opinion, no woman that is using her brain and logical thought process is gonna up and leave her 2yr old and her 5 month old babies. Especially when she worked for so long (years) and tried so many things to even have kids. Yep, she was told she could never have kids but she has always wanted to.

This makes her willingness to give up ANY time with her kids that much more unbelievable to me.

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LFH, return to the notes posted on this thread on 11 May (less than a fortnight ago!) and you'll find two by yours truly that contained the following:

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Fight the good fight - send the letter and stick to the MB practices and principles thereafter. Remember, she has already "made" her choice; this is giving her one more shot to change her mind (back).

Do not get your hopes unduly raised. WWs come back to marriages about as often as Halley's Comet reappears.

You're doing what you're doing (beyond the slim hope of a return) to lay out to HER, satisfy YOURSELF in the future, and demonstrate to any THIRD-PARTIES (family, etc), that the destruction of your marriage was entirely on her choices and actions.

Recovery from infidelity is not always defined as reconciliation between WS and BS. It can also encompass giving the BS the self-strength to go forward unencumbered by thoughts of "Should I have...."
and
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Reality is reality, my friend.

The ideal "positive outcome" is for her to see the errors of her ways and re-commit to you and your family. Short of that, a secondary "positive outcome" is the one I referenced, where you, having had her destroy your marriage, move forward with your life free from any sense of shared responsibility for its destruction.

Do NOT underestimate the importance of that freedom, LFH, if that's the way this is to play itself out.

There were also posts by MNG and Scotty whose wisdom ran along the same lines.

What we said then, should be by you internalized now.

You fought (are still fighting) the good fight. You were never favored to win - at least by this bookie. You fought the fight with the purpose of letting you come out of the other side with your head up, able to look anyone in the eye in the assurance of your own commitment to the institution of marriage.

The only thing wrong with you, as far as that goes, is you made a faulty (not poor) choice in a partner. As things look to be progressing, her inadequacies as such a partner are about to be no longer your concern.

She has long ago demonstrated her belief that "you" and "she" are not to be a "we". You should start mentally prepping yourself the same way.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I say this with a little reluctance because I have been wrong SO many times in this situation, but I really think she's smarter than to try and physically meet him because I think she knows that I would use that against her in the divorce. Now, do I think they have been in contact in some other fashion...very possibly.

That is exactly what I think. It could be via phone calls, internets, etc. But that is a continuation of the affair. And she probably does see him occasionally.

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It does make me wonder though if the POSOM would still be interested after what I told him would happen if he didn't stop. He knew I was serious. Would he think I was bluffing?

Of course he knew you were bluffing. He just went further underground because you gave him your game plan. Thats a real easy one. He won't take you seriously until he is served.

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This is kind of what makes me wonder if maybe she actually hasn't contacted him in any way during the separation and has just had the fantasy of being with him in her mind.

No, it is not a fantasy that is keeping her away, it is an affair. If the affair had ended she would be in withdrawal. She is not.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
She's letting them drive her entire thought process right now because, in my opinion, no woman that is using her brain and logical thought process is gonna up and leave her 2yr old and her 5 month old babies. Especially when she worked for so long (years) and tried so many things to even have kids. Yep, she was told she could never have kids but she has always wanted to.

This makes her willingness to give up ANY time with her kids that much more unbelievable to me..

Oh no, a fantasy is not strong enough to make a woman leave her marriage and her children. An ADDICTION IS. Her affair is the addiction. I assure you the affair is still in full swing.

If you can't get evidence of it on your own, then you have to get the evidence legally by having him served. Doing that increases your chances of reconciliation because it will drag the affair out into the light of day. Do that and you increase your chances of reconciliation.

But be assured this is not a "fantasy." They just went further underground.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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He REALLY shouldn't think in any way that I was or am bluffing, because I meant every word I said to him and her. I made a point to not say anything that I was not prepared to follow through with if I was pushed that far.

They will both "see my hand" soon.

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
He REALLY shouldn't think in any way that I was or am bluffing, because I meant every word I said to him and her.

They will both "see my hand" soon.
Atta boy no more Mr. Doormat!! Stay strong my friend. weightlifter


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
He REALLY shouldn't think in any way that I was or am bluffing, because I meant every word I said to him and her. I made a point to not say anything that I was not prepared to follow through with if I was pushed that far.

They will both "see my hand" soon.

That is what needs to happen in order for them to take you seriously.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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It's going to happen. Hopefully next week when my lawyer gets back in town. I'm preparing all the documentation as we speak.

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Seems like she just absolutely hates me these days. Any communication with her just gives me that feeling. She just comes across as though she wouldn't care nor would it bother her if I fell off the face of the earth.

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Sorry for your dismay LFH. I have prayed for you to have courage and strength in these trying times and that you will have the words to say and the self respect you need to deal with everything thats being thrown at you.

Keep your chin up my friend. If this doesnt boil out that you retain your family unit, then if nothing else.. you will become a better man using the MB tools here for some lucky gal in the future.

MNG

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I appreciate that MNG.

I'm trying to stay on the path and keep my eye on the potential prize. She is just behaving like a stranger that doesn't or hasn't had any type of connection with me of any type. To see and feel her behave toward me in the fashion that she is right now is very hard to swallow.

I understand that it's the addiction that's making her do this but it is taking it's toll on my Love Bank for her. I'm trying to not let it bother me because if I allow her to empty my Love Bank for her and she actually does come out of the fog soon, I won't have the desire to take her back.

I'm keeping up the fight to the very end because I believe she's being like this toward me to try to push me away intentionally so her plan will be easier to complete.

I know I sound like a broken record, but to see her go from believing I was the one she wanted to spend the rest of her life with to acting like she doesn't even care if I exist and that I'm her worst enemy all within the past 6 months is just the most unbelievable and difficult to understand thing I have ever seen.

To see her behavior toward me right now, you would NEVER know that we have been married for 7 years and been best friends for over 12 years.

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If my counter file does have an effect on both of them where he decides and tells her that he's done, what kind of reaction do I want to see from her...after the initial anger I guess?

I mean, I know she's not going to have a miraculous recovery and come running back into my arms. But what does the MB program want her reaction to be?

Will the reaction/changes be minute or very noticeable?

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Just finished up a VERY pleasant 47 minute conversation (can you hear the sarcasm) with the crazy WW. Just a few of the more notable quotes from her during that conversation:

1. "I'm sorry that you don't understand that people's feeling sometimes change."

2. "I'm sorry you don't understand that we're at different points."

3. "We both played a part in getting to where we are."

4. "I've been trying to work with on everything up until this point"

5. "I don't understand why we can't come to a decision about everything between ourselves without letting the lawyers do it"

6. "I'm sorry you don't understand and are having a hard time with the reason that I'm leaving...because I'm not happy."

7. "I want to come get some of my stuff but I don't want to do it while you're there" --- that one was para-phrased but the meaning is the exact same.

8. "I know someone who wants to buy the house".

I could go on and on but I'm sure y'all have heard these before.

The way I feel right this very second....I don't have any desire left for her. Now...I understand that I'm dealing with the "anti-her" but I can actually FEEL myself beginning to think/obsess less and less about her coming back to me. I don't know if that's good or bad but it's definitely weird to feel like I'm not interested in my own wife.

She actually had the nerve or whatever to tell me that I'm not the same person she married...what????? Really???? You can't use that line on me!! This wayward speak has got to be the most confusing, nonsensical, contradictory, take-the-blame-off-myself LOAD OF CRAP I have ever experienced in my life!!!

What kind of scares(??) me a little is the fact that I seem to be developing or have developed so much anger/contempt/dislike for her right now that I don't really even want to be around her, talk to her or even communicate with her. Whenever I see her name on my phone, email or text my whole body tenses up. That's pretty horrible to feel that way about the person you've been married to for the past 7 years and have children with.

What does that mean?

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I wish there was a word that explained my WW's behavior better than INSANE!

She just replied to an email I sent her about a monetary issue and she actually said "Have a good night". Unbelievable!!

We just finished a conversation on the phone that was anything but pleasant. I will never understand this....I know....I'm not supposed to.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and have come to realize that the REAL reason for Plan B is actually to separate the BS from the WS to keep the BS from dying from the smell of all the bull**** that comes out of a WS's mouth!!

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