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BV, reposting this to your consideration. Could you just please use a different colour and put a yes/no behind my questions. Do not wait for weeks! NC letter would be the next thing. Along with the letter send him the list of passwords to all of your accounts you are using online. Have you deleted your FB account? Read this. Thread of Extraordinary Precautions There are 2 categories of EPs. The first one has to be done before the second one. This is one-time list and makes sure you will not have any more opportunities to revive your affair. NC letter, providing him the access to all accounts, etc is the first category thing. This takes maybe 1-2 days, not weeks. Remember - this has to be done first! Given thread gives you examples, you also have to think very carefully what were the things that made your affair possible and plug those holes forever. The second category is the plan for your new lifestyle. This is for life. And you cannot offer that kind of CARE when your first category has holes in it. I'm not that sure about those "baby steps". I understand you would not want to pressure your BH, coming back to you would be his own decision to make. But he would want to SEE what he is coming back TO. Now, if you are taking weeks to complete your emergency package, I would think twice if I were him. If something that has to be done immediately would take weeks from your part, then I don't know - you may never become a safe woman to anyone. I will help you here a bit. A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse. Have you done it? [color:#FF0000]Yes I'm sure you used the same cell phone number communicating with OP. I was very reluctant to change my number and it caused a great deal of unnecessary stress to my H. Once I did it I gave my new number to people with the orders not to spread the number to anyone without my knowledge. [/color]
B) Change email account.Same question. [color:#FF6666]Yes And give him an access to it.[/color]
C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.)Same question. [color:#FF0000]Yes Do not watch what your H is doing or not. Delete them all![/color]
D) Take a polygraphMake an appointment, pay for it yourself and offer him to come along. He can ask whatever he has to.No
E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.)If you have any personal keys, make copies and send them to him.No
F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to.Have you done it?No (will be included in the letter i send tomorrow)
G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal.Have you done it?No
H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access.Same question.No
I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access.And to your apartment. Have you done it? No
J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement. Have you started the process? No
K) Sell the house/purchase a new one.In your case - sell the place and move closer to your BH. Have you started the process? Yes - sold
L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.If that was the case, do it.No
It is not time to think what your BH would think or do, this is the list you have to complete alone. So you will just do it and report the list to him just like that. Yep, I think/know you are right. It's stupid to wait weeks. I have a NC letter ready (see earlier in my thread) and will post it to my husband tomorrow along with a list of EPs. I will look at this thread and re-look at my EP's today.
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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Thanks.
When are you going to take care all those "no's"?
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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Opps, sorry some of those top ones came out as blue so was hard to see.
Would never get away with putting in a webcam at work!! I work for the government! I guess i could at home - I think my H would laugh his A** off at this though and think i was spending money unneccesarily. Would i do this even if he thought it was stupid?
Polygraph? Um what would the purpose of this be? that my H would come along and ask me questions?
Bank a/c passwords will be given along with email passwords in my letter.
Software to track internet use... umm dunno where to start here, guess i google it? He's never even looked at my laptop so not sure what this would acheive while we are seperated?
Pre-nup? Um without sounding rude/dumb, is this a US thing? I've never heard of anyone I know do this?
Keys... just my house key, i'm giving him a copy anyway so that he can get any of our DD stuff that gets accidentally left around.
Think that's all the no's.
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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Opps, sorry some of those top ones came out as blue so was hard to see.
Would never get away with putting in a webcam at work!! I work for the government! I guess i could at home - I think my H would laugh his A** off at this though and think i was spending money unneccesarily. Would i do this even if he thought it was stupid?
Yes.
Polygraph? Um what would the purpose of this be? that my H would come along and ask me questions?
Yes. The purpose of this is to show that you are willing to take a polygraph and answer his questions should he want to ask them. This is about your lies he may want to have full truth about. Or have you anything to hide?
Bank a/c passwords will be given along with email passwords in my letter.
Software to track internet use... umm dunno where to start here, guess i google it? He's never even looked at my laptop so not sure what this would acheive while we are seperated?
Again, doing this will show your H that you are willing to be a completely transparent person.
Pre-nup? Um without sounding rude/dumb, is this a US thing? I've never heard of anyone I know do this?
I said post-nup. It's a legal document and that is something your lawyer can put together. Not very hard. I don't know about US, we are from Europe and we have this signed document where it is stated that in case of my infidelity I will give up everything.
Keys... just my house key, i'm giving him a copy anyway so that he can get any of our DD stuff that gets accidentally left around.
Think that's all the no's. Okay, BV. I'm sure you will figure this out. But first of all, you need to answer this question to yourself, giving your somewhat arrogant answers -- how badly you want to prove your H that you are willing to change and become a loyal partner and a good example to your daugther?
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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Aphelion, your posts made me realize something. I am being selfish. No, not selfish. Jealous. Envious.
I left the forum over a month ago, saying I couldn�t bear to read others� success stories when I didn�t have a success story of my own. I think you and I can agree that this board is heavily weighted with MB successes.
So�should we counsel BV to give up, and fail at her M, as ours have failed? We do share that one thing in common, you and I�despite the well-intentioned folks here on the forum, despite application of MB principles, our marriages have failed. If I understand correctly, outwardly your situation is very similar to mine, in that you, the BH, has no intention of recovering your M, no intention of letting your W fill your ENs (even claiming you don�t have ENs anymore), yet continue to live together as a family and believe you are providing the best-case scenario for the children. So, we could agree that neither of us have a M as Dr. Harley defines M.
Does the fact that my M has not, and likely will not, recover - despite my best efforts at following the tenets of MB � cause me to reject the very idea of marriage, or MB, or for that matter, redemption?
I am not arguing that BV�s BH ever has to give her another chance. And I am not arguing that a BH should accept a M to an �adulteress.� No one should remain married to an active wayward. And it is absolutely your prerogative � as well as my BH�s, and BV�s BH � to decide that marriage to a �former adulteress� is unacceptable.
But then�DO something about it. File for divorce. Begin the paperwork. Enter Plan B. Limbo is a horrible place to be stuck. Yes, there may be a �draconian� legal system in place, �forcing� the BH to remain stuck in a marriage for 6, 12, 18 months before divorce can occur. But the process can still be started with legal intent.
If BV is served with legal papers by her BH, if he enters into Plan B *despite* her attempts to show him she is working on changing herself, then I would say perhaps she should throw in the towel and let him be. I can�t even look at my sitch and tell you honestly that I�ve �thrown in the towel� as I continue to hold out olive branches to my own BH, even when Dr. H himself has essentially told me to give up.
Until that time, BV should continue to work on herself. She should continue to identify her weak boundaries and implement EPs. It will help her to avoid being a threat to another woman�s marriage, as well as help her to become a stronger individual and better human being � whatever happens to her marriage.
If adulterers are incapable of being redeemed, are other sinners incapable of redemption? If so, hell is going to be a pretty crowded place, and I guess my religion has taught me wrong all these years.
Here�s a little story. My brother has a friend, who got in serious trouble with the law about 15 years ago when he was a teen (old enough to be charged as an adult). Armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, eluding arrest, drugs. He was one of 4 co-defendants. I happened to be working at the courthouse when his case came through. The other 3 co-defendants all testified against him and accepted pleas. None of them received active prison time. My brother�s friend spent 4 years in prison. During that time, he received his GED, completed rehab, and received vocational training. He has a family now and has really turned his life around.
If no one had believed in this kid, where would he be today?
If no one believes in the efforts of a wayward who is trying to become a former wayward, regardless of the ultimate fate of their marriage, where will they end up?
Maybe some would say �no great loss.� But BV is a human being. She has a daughter. Admittedly, it is difficult to judge character and intentions through a computer monitor, but BV � and her self-improvement efforts and marital recovery efforts - deserve to be treated with respect until she shows us otherwise.
Aphelion, I am truly sorry for the loss of your marriage. I don�t know your whole story, just bits and pieces. You didn�t deserve what your W did to you, nor did my H deserve what I did to him. I honestly have valued what you said on my own thread because I think out of all the other posters here, you�ve come closest to showing me exactly what my BH thinks of me. Not that it is a favorable perception, mind you, but it is honest!
I�m pulling for you, BV. Now get back to your EP�s and Mrs. Recon�s questions!
I�m getting off the soapbox and back to my little corner of the universe now.
FWW
"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Great post wulffpack_girl!!
Welcome back!!
You've been missed.
Dday- Feb 1998
Recovered!!
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Aphelion, your posts made me realize something. I am being selfish. No, not selfish. Jealous. Envious.
I left the forum over a month ago, saying I couldn�t bear to read others� success stories when I didn�t have a success story of my own. I think you and I can agree that this board is heavily weighted with MB successes.
So�should we counsel BV to give up, and fail at her M, as ours have failed? We do share that one thing in common, you and I�despite the well-intentioned folks here on the forum, despite application of MB principles, our marriages have failed. If I understand correctly, outwardly your situation is very similar to mine, in that you, the BH, has no intention of recovering your M, no intention of letting your W fill your ENs (even claiming you don�t have ENs anymore), yet continue to live together as a family and believe you are providing the best-case scenario for the children. So, we could agree that neither of us have a M as Dr. Harley defines M.
Does the fact that my M has not, and likely will not, recover - despite my best efforts at following the tenets of MB � cause me to reject the very idea of marriage, or MB, or for that matter, redemption?
I am not arguing that BV�s BH ever has to give her another chance. And I am not arguing that a BH should accept a M to an �adulteress.� No one should remain married to an active wayward. And it is absolutely your prerogative � as well as my BH�s, and BV�s BH � to decide that marriage to a �former adulteress� is unacceptable.
But then�DO something about it. File for divorce. Begin the paperwork. Enter Plan B. Limbo is a horrible place to be stuck. Yes, there may be a �draconian� legal system in place, �forcing� the BH to remain stuck in a marriage for 6, 12, 18 months before divorce can occur. But the process can still be started with legal intent.
If BV is served with legal papers by her BH, if he enters into Plan B *despite* her attempts to show him she is working on changing herself, then I would say perhaps she should throw in the towel and let him be. I can�t even look at my sitch and tell you honestly that I�ve �thrown in the towel� as I continue to hold out olive branches to my own BH, even when Dr. H himself has essentially told me to give up.
Until that time, BV should continue to work on herself. She should continue to identify her weak boundaries and implement EPs. It will help her to avoid being a threat to another woman�s marriage, as well as help her to become a stronger individual and better human being � whatever happens to her marriage.
If adulterers are incapable of being redeemed, are other sinners incapable of redemption? If so, hell is going to be a pretty crowded place, and I guess my religion has taught me wrong all these years.
Here�s a little story. My brother has a friend, who got in serious trouble with the law about 15 years ago when he was a teen (old enough to be charged as an adult). Armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, eluding arrest, drugs. He was one of 4 co-defendants. I happened to be working at the courthouse when his case came through. The other 3 co-defendants all testified against him and accepted pleas. None of them received active prison time. My brother�s friend spent 4 years in prison. During that time, he received his GED, completed rehab, and received vocational training. He has a family now and has really turned his life around.
If no one had believed in this kid, where would he be today?
If no one believes in the efforts of a wayward who is trying to become a former wayward, regardless of the ultimate fate of their marriage, where will they end up?
Maybe some would say �no great loss.� But BV is a human being. She has a daughter. Admittedly, it is difficult to judge character and intentions through a computer monitor, but BV � and her self-improvement efforts and marital recovery efforts - deserve to be treated with respect until she shows us otherwise.
Aphelion, I am truly sorry for the loss of your marriage. I don�t know your whole story, just bits and pieces. You didn�t deserve what your W did to you, nor did my H deserve what I did to him. I honestly have valued what you said on my own thread because I think out of all the other posters here, you�ve come closest to showing me exactly what my BH thinks of me. Not that it is a favorable perception, mind you, but it is honest!
I�m pulling for you, BV. Now get back to your EP�s and Mrs. Recon�s questions!
I�m getting off the soapbox and back to my little corner of the universe now. Welcome back WPG!!! Very well said, you had me bawling like a baby. You have and always will be my hero! What you just said shows how far you have come. Thank you and you were missed!!!
Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11
Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Great post wulffpack_girl!!
Welcome back!!
You've been missed. DITTO !!!
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 05/23/12 02:38 PM. Reason: Argumentative
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 05/23/12 02:32 PM. Reason: Argumentative
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Wow my thread has taken on a life of it's own over night.
Look I will read ANY advice given to me here as i'm truely repentant and want to save my marriage. But can we please stop this!!! I really don't want this thread turning into a fight between other posters :-( Wasn't my intention at all.
Thank you WPG for your post.
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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 If things get out of hand, start notifying the mods that your thread it less valuable to your MB process due to thread jacking. That issue will be dealt with BY THE MODS if your request is ignored. 
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Opps, sorry some of those top ones came out as blue so was hard to see.
Would never get away with putting in a webcam at work!! I work for the government! I guess i could at home - I think my H would laugh his A** off at this though and think i was spending money unneccesarily. Would i do this even if he thought it was stupid?
Yes.
Polygraph? Um what would the purpose of this be? that my H would come along and ask me questions?
Yes. The purpose of this is to show that you are willing to take a polygraph and answer his questions should he want to ask them. This is about your lies he may want to have full truth about. Or have you anything to hide?
Bank a/c passwords will be given along with email passwords in my letter.
Software to track internet use... umm dunno where to start here, guess i google it? He's never even looked at my laptop so not sure what this would acheive while we are seperated?
Again, doing this will show your H that you are willing to be a completely transparent person.
Pre-nup? Um without sounding rude/dumb, is this a US thing? I've never heard of anyone I know do this?
I said post-nup. It's a legal document and that is something your lawyer can put together. Not very hard. I don't know about US, we are from Europe and we have this signed document where it is stated that in case of my infidelity I will give up everything.
Keys... just my house key, i'm giving him a copy anyway so that he can get any of our DD stuff that gets accidentally left around.
Think that's all the no's. Okay, BV. I'm sure you will figure this out. But first of all, you need to answer this question to yourself, giving your somewhat arrogant answers -- how badly you want to prove your H that you are willing to change and become a loyal partner and a good example to your daugther? Eek I came across arrogant?!!! Apologies. Polygraph and post-nup i will google today so that I can be in a position to offer that. Software to track - will sort on the weekend. WEbcam... will google that too.
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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Thanks pepperband 
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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A note to all:
Stop arguing on this thread. Help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts or refrain from posting!
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Thanks Ariel
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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Occasionally reading this thread (though I shouldn�t).
I�m confused.
This BH has already played his Get Out of Jail Free card. He has, in the words of the adulteress herself, �categorically� moved on.
He wants to be left alone.
He is being very polite but firm about it.
Would it not be the compassionate thing for this adulteress to just leave the BH alone?
Yet this thread reads like everyone desires him to be tricked or otherwise manipulated into reconciling. Yet again!
This BH not only has the right to D he has stated his strong desire to do so. He is only forced, trapped actually, into waiting 18 months by some medieval socialistic D law. But he definitely wants out. He has stated so in no uncertain terms. This thread is giving the adulteress advice which will most likely result in no more than extending and extenuating the amount of time his heart is breaking.
He has stated what he wants. Out! The MB advice should be to leave him be. She should leave him alone. Shall I quote Dr H on the matter?
And before anyone posts that if he wanted help he would post on MB, well obviously. But he does not want to and he isn�t is he? He neither wants any help nor wants an adulterated M. He specifically doesn�t want help reconciling, and that includes MB help.
She should leave him alone. If the BH requests being left alone, which as a big boy he is able to do, she should respect that. As it is, he is responding to her and allowing her to make amends while not making her any promises. So she is doing what he wants. I have 'moved on' too. I don't want my WS back. But he could at least offer to make amends. Its basic decency. I applaud BVs efforts. She will be a better wife in the next marriage if she doesn't save this one. If you steal money, you should offer to pay it back and show how you would do so. And the legnth of time for a divorce is necessary, not 'medieval'. A marriage is a solid thing that can't be dissolved by a click of the fingers. He has healing to do and decisions to make in that very necessary time period. BVs offer (not manipulation - a straightforward offer) makes the end of his marriage HIS choice, instead of the abandonment and lack of choice most BSs have to heal from. Keep it up BV, get on that EP list and don't be scared of offering your BH a great marriage IF HE WANTS IT. You owe him the offer. He is owed that choice. In his shoes I would be wary and unencouraging too, but I would watch how hard you were willing to work, how fearlessly you made amends, how many amends you made, how much you cared. How safe I would be. So there's no room for fear and trepidation. He has the luxury of being wary - you don't. Give it your all until he makes that call.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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IndieGirl
Your post/encouragment is spot on and i appreciate every word. Thanks.
I also agree that the 2 year gap before one can file for divorce is a good thing. Marriage is not something that should be taken as 'lightly' as have in the last year or more. It is something to be honored, protected and valued at all costs.
Yep, he has every right to move on even at the end of this next 18 months - regardless of how hard i work during that time. His 'get out of jail card' was issued the moment i started my affair. However, i WILL do my best until then. And if i don't manage to save this I look forward to the journey in which i am becoming a better person, moulded by God, and a safer person should i enter another relationship.
Thanks
I am going to be a good employee now so will not check back on here for a couple of days.
Will update then on status of sending EP's/NC letter etc. It's all drafted on my computer but i like to handwrite these types of things and i don't have time to do that till tonight.
(BTW - i can't believe how good it feels to have changed my phone number and email! thanks to those who pushed me to do this :P)
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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So�should we counsel BV to give up, and fail at her M, as ours have failed? My point exactly. Thank you for a great post, WPG.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Just a quick update to say handwritten letter to my H including NC letter, EP's, and passwords are in the mail today.
It's a weight off my shoulders to do this and i didn't even realise until it went.
Thanks to everyone here who has encouraged me to take these steps.
You guys rock
Me: WW, 33
My BS: 30
Married: 11 years
1 x Child: Daughter, 3 years
D-Day: 10/8/2011
Fighting to save my marriage.
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