Should I expose them anyway? I want the divorce so it is no use breaking up the affair, but should I expose anyway or is it just being nasty at this point.

Is there any thing I can do to help with the resentment?

How often can we satisfy two questions with one answer?

Yes, expose. There will be fallout from the divorce. Would you prefer that the mindless drones of the world uncritically accept her version of events ("..he was abusive...", "..we grew apart..", "..I felt smothered...") or your truth?

Yes, expose. You will have the satisfaction of knowing you were honest enough to identify the malignancy, even if you could not defeat it.

RCX,

Since your exposure will dampen her enthusiasm for affairs and bringing strange men into contact with your daughter, EXPOSE NOW and EXPOSE MASSIVELY.

God Bless
Gamma

Exposure isn't "nasty". It's the truth! If she's got nothing to be ashamed of, then why would it be "nasty"?

She's being unfaithful to the marriage. It's important to you and your life, and the people who are important to yo that people understand where you're at.

Whether it's "physical" or not has nothing to do with it. She's acting like a teenager in heat. Spending time with a bunch of singles is not motherly or behavior becoming of a spouse. It's hurtful, inconsiderate, selfish, and disgusting.

Shame of it is that she might just figure that out someday, but it sounds like it will be too late. She will have already destroyed her marriage to Father of her daughter, and possibly lost her daughter's respect in the process.

A big exposure is important in so many ways. You would be doing everyone in your life and in hers a disservice to not let them in on the facts -- wouldn't they have liked an opportunity to talk to her about her actions before it was too late?

Read up on how Dr. Harley recommends exposure to kids of certain ages. 4-5 "Mommy is breaking the rules of marriage" I believe is about how it goes.

You can't think straight when your wife is actively cheating on you. You can't think straight when your wife is actively searching for a landing pad for herself after the divorce. Plan B is the only way to do this and make rational decisions.

I'm sorry and sick about all this for you and your daughter rcx. There's hope still, but it's a narrow road and you've been knocked way off course.

Opt

A radio clip from Dr. Harley telling children even as young as 4.

The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair

When we talked about it she said what she did was fine since our marriage is already over, I told her "well if its fine lets just call your parents and explain to them" she freaked out and said "you will ruin me if you tell anyone" I simply told her "your actions are what is ruining you, I will just be telling people who you really are, they deserve the truth".

This morning I told her I would not accept anything less than 50% custody, she told me she had hoped things would not get nasty between us. I told her they do not have to get nasty unless she pushes it there, and if anyone asks me why I am getting nasty with you I will simply say that you are not a good role model for our daughter and I need to be a bigger part of her life. She asked if I would tell people what she did and I said yes if they ask, she started balling and threw up several times. We will see what tonight brings.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that she chose her affair partner over her daughter... but I guess she is just a standard wayward.

I have told her to find a new place to live by the end of the week. I said I had almost no respect left for her and if we were to remain on speaking terms I could not know anything that she was doing.

As for plan B I have stated that she needs to be out within a week, but that will not change how I feel about her. I clearly see who she really is, all this time when she said I was "controlling" her all I was doing was holding her accountable. When she told me it did not get physical this weekend I told her I was not hurt by what she did, that it is what I have come to expect from her. But I did say that if she got physical with him before the divorce was final I would be hurt and if anyone ever asked I would tell them the truth including our daughter. She asked what she could do and I said "don't have any sexual contact with him until the divorce is final" (I know its stupid but I kind of wanted to see what she would say) and sure enough she said "OK fine nice that you are still trying to control me"!! WTF telling your wife to act like a wife and mother is controlling?????

She is simply a bad person, she has done a pretty good job of pretending to be a good person but I could always see through her.

...if I would tell people what she did and I said yes if they ask...

So you ask us here if you should expose, get four solid affirmative answers, and basically tell us, "Thanx for nothing...."

...I have told her to find a new place to live by the end of the week...
with the following negative consequences if she predictably ignores the suggestion......?

You seem to have confused this site, with it's program, advice, and easily implementable steps, with an "Oh, Woe is Me!" blog.

RCX,

One of the more Subtle, but compelling reasons for exposure is that the betrayed spouse no longer has to lie to anyone, or hand out cute stories about why they broke up, or feel guilty.

There is no reason you should have to cover up for your WW, lying is for waywards and you are not the wayward. What your WW is telling you BTW is that exposure WILL be effective, DO IT NOW and without warning!

God Bless
Gamma

RCX,

Please read NG's advice again.

You need to expose this affair. Your WW's wife concern about her parents is exactly why this needs to be exposed.

When you go to D she will spin the story about how "horrible" and maybe even abusive you were.

Shine the light on the truth, but you've already decided that you know what's best for your situation.

Exposure is inevitable because you'll have to tell people the truth about why are you having a divorce at the first place. Nobody will by the crap about "insurmountable differences" and everybody knows that there is more behind it and usually it is someone's wayturdness.

She will be in your daughter's life forever and you are also responsible what kind of a mother she has. Exposure may shake her out of this mindset and may give her a good chance to become a decent person if she chooses to. If you don't expose it is your daughter who will have to deal with the concequences. Think about it.

By not exposing and just arguing about exposure or threatening to expose is actually enabling her waywardness. You have been here long enough to know this. Read this Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon

RCX,
You have gone through a lot of changes with all this. The experience seems to have changed the way you look at yourself and you have made positive modifications in your behavior in response to the horrible assaults to your marriage and to your existence.

However, this program is like a lot of other programs. It works to the EXTENT that you implement it. Some parts are easy to understand and implement, some parts are hard to understand and imlement.

Your success is commensurate with the amount of effort you put into learning about the hows and whys of the procedures outlined on these pages. The procedures are no longer based on theory, they are fact, having been implemented hundreds and thousands of times by folks like us.

It's also never too late. There is, in my experience, not a defined day when all hope is lost in a marriage, (except once one of you gets remarried - which I hope you understand is a long ways off.)

In looking at your situation, it reminds me so much of my own. I acknowledge there are parts of the program that I could not implement; due to misunderstanding, incomplete research, and/or plain old cowardice. With 2 years of hind site, I can say that the aspects of the divorce that I still struggle with are exactly the areas where I didn't have the follow through with the program (or got impatient).

I believe I also went off AD's too early. They are really crucial to clear thinking until the Affair is over, or until you are away from the onslaught.

As I said yesterday, you can't think clearly when your wife is beligerently beating you senseless emotionally. It's no time to be making decisions that will affect you and your child for the rest of your life: better to remove yourself from the situation (or remove the situation from you) and give yourself time to think this through in a more rational environment. (Plan B)

opt

Somehow my last posts came across wrong, I was not saying I would not expose her I was merely explaining the conversation we had earlier, and her reaction to it so I apologize for the miss communication. In hindsight I should have included my exposure plan with my previous posts.

Last night when I got home she broke down and said she realized that she has ruined so many lives with her reckless behavior. Unfortunately she was referring to her affair partner's life and not the life of our daughter or the two of us. When she said this it pissed me off and I immediately called her family and exposed her while she was there (I was going to wait until she had gone to bed to be in privacy but I needed to get it over with now). She didn't try to stop me and she talked with her family after I was finished. I was respectful and honest to them during the exposure unfortunately her family was not so respectful... to her. They flipped out and verbally bashed her, it was not pretty. I had already exposed to my side of the family and our close friends earlier in the day, again being respectful and honest. I believe that this has cleared some of the fog but not all of it as I can still see some signs.

As of this morning she is more humble and somber than I have ever seen her. She is now starting to look at herself from the outside in, but she still says some things that make me feel this is really not rock bottom, I guess only time will tell. She clearly sees that her whole world is collapsing in front of her eyes. She is loosing half of her child, her husband, her house, her family has all but abandon her (this is sad but typical of her family, they are all sort of renters), many of her friends have contacted her expressing their feelings about her behavior and after the exposure her affair partner will not even look at her (he is a local business man). After divorce she will have nothing but half of our daughter and a dining room table. Exposure is a very strange feeling, I felt bad doing it like I was being nasty... but looking back I was respectful and professional in how I did it and now I feel like a bigger more complete person for taking the high road and doing the right thing.

This morning she came to me and said she needs to move out and just be alone and heal. She said she wants to get into counselling and figure out why she keeps making stupid emotional decisions. She asked me what I would need from her to start building trust between us, she says she will do whatever it takes to earn my trust back. Again I am hopeful for her but some things seem a little foggy still. I will try to post as often as possible.

Put every impediment you can think of in the way of her moving out, but do so without appearing to do so. (Good trick, I know.) She is wounded and bleeding right now. She will struggle to find a way to heal and recover. You want that to be at home.

I explained this to LFH earlier. The stories here demonstrate that the odds of a moved-out WW ever returning to the marriage are pathetically small. Prevent that at all costs. Cut off her funds, refuse to sign leases, (surreptitiously) disable her vehicle - get creative.

Coming out of the fog just takes some time.

NC has to be established and affair phones, e-mails etc shut down. Does this OM have wife? You should expose the affair to her, too. She needs to know about this.

Good job on exposure!

okeydokey. Dr. Harley writes that separation and Plan B is risky, but the odds of surviving an affair are already low; especially when plans aren't followed with dedication and understanding. Being in a relationship with someone who is having an affair is extremely stressful and painful; leading to irrational decisions based on emotion instead of clear thinking.

My understanding is that MB logic would not advocate encouraging a spouse to move out, but that preventing it at all costs would actually be "controlling." Doing so in a sneaky way is simply dishonest and violates multiple principles not the least of which is personal integrity. What's wrong with being up front: "I'm not supporting you moving out - I believe in our marriage and our family, if you want to leave that's something you'll have to do without my blessing or guidance, or money, or assistance."

I agree with NG, I just don't believe that MB advocates dishonesty in the approach, nor do I think it's necessary.

opt

You can't control others' behaviors. But it's only fair to ask them for assistance with this very difficult situation. How they choose to administer that guidance to your ww is up to them. Regardless, the lights go on in the crack house each time someone asks her "how could you do this?"

She's liable to threaten and pour out hatred and go through all that; it's typical and I hope you are ready for it. Just keep your head about you that you are fighting for your marriage. It's going to take time, she will have a long period of withdrawal even if OM falls off the face of the earth.

"Exposure" needs to continue with the OM's wife. It's essential, and the duty of the BS as a human being. If the situation were reversed, you would want the OMs wife to inform you of your wife's infidelity. It's only fair to her. She may have information for you also that could be critical in continuing to kill the affair.

opt

Being alone for a wayward is code for continuing to be wayward without interruption or knowledge of those who love them. Please don't fall for this; she is wayward and dishonest. They all say this. Counselling should only be with the Harleys as they are the only ones who you can be sure understand infidelity. Otherwise she is just buying time until she can sneak back into her waywardness whilst she has your "trust."

I hope you understand what "trust" does to a marriage by now, RCX. Trust has to be earned daily and really has no place in a marriage. EVERYBODY cheats given the right circimstances (they would be different for each person). And NOBODY cheats given other circumstances. The approach is to understand what circumstances those are, and not allow yourself or your spouse to be in those dangerous places (like a camping trip with all singles). And to be accountable to each other at all times -- with openness and honesty.

In your situation, you now have a right to request Extreme Precautions. And there is the answer to her question. "you will allow me full access to your life at all times, with honesty and openness, and NEVER be alone with someone from the opposite sex, etc. etc. etc"

See, she is playing with words right now. It's all a game to her, but you need actions. Consistent and sure-fire actions. Real committment to the marriage. Otherwise it's false recovery time and you're going through this all over again in a few years.

No Contact is crucial and would be at the top of the list. If that means quitting her job, then that's number 2 on the list. If she's serious about the above text in red, she'll be drafting her resignation letter tonight. Her job environment is toxic to your marriage if I may be so bold to say so. Unless she quits it, I believe you have 0 chance at recovering your marriage for any length of time. Maybe some day she goes back to it with a new attitude, but recovery will be very difficult for her with the immaturity that seems to pervade in that workplace.

opt

I believe Steve even agreed, based on information you gave him that your wife was possibly NOT wayward. This is why it's going to be so important for you to require full accountability from your WW. She was wayward at the time the above was written (perhaps not in a relationship, but trolling, shopping, setting things up) and it got by you, your counsellor; even got by the best in the business.

I wouldn't believe a word she says right now. Only believe actions.

opt

Rcx,

Here's a link to Extraordinary Precautions. Right now you should press on the category 1. These are the first steps. Then move on to category 2.

You'll get to know quite soon whether she is serious in what she says, because this list requires ACTION.

She is not at all serious about earning my trust back, this morning she came into my room and told me how much I have hurt her and how controlling I have been lately. When I asked how I was being controlling she said "like when you approached OM and told him to stay away from me, do you know how embarrassing that is"? She said "I cant even go to the gym any more because you have embarrassed me so much", I asked "well would you be embarrassing if you never went camping with him" and she said "I had to go to get away from you, you made me do it". I asked if she realized how embarrassing and hurtful it is for me to know my wife is going off with another man for a weekend, did she know how embarrassing it is for our daughter to know what her mom who is still married to her dad is doing in secret? Then she got mad and said "see I can still never win with you, you will always remind me of the past"..... she will never change, she will never see what she is doing, she will always make emotional decisions.

The OM is not married and doesn't even have a girlfriend, when I talked to him he told me that my wife said our divorce would be final this week, he apologized and said if he knew the truth he would have never even talked to her. He said she did call him and tell him they could never meet again and he told her "your damn right we will never meet again, your not worth loosing my life over". I told him I appreciated his honesty but asked him "if she said it would be final in a week you should have told her "ok bring me the papers in a week", he agreed and apologized again, and he insisted that there was no sexual activity and stated again that he will never see her again, he was willing to take a lie detector to prove it, this guy was legitimately terrified of me.

I just don't think there is any hope for my wife, her renter mentality is too ingrained into her personality. Also she is very weak emotionally, she gets nervous and feels threatened around people if they are not laughing and constantly smiling. Basically she needs to live in Disney World because she can not handle real life with real/healthy conflict and issues. This has been in an issue for other aspects of her life in the past as well, she has requested to change jobs because she didn't get enough compliments in her position or she had to work with someone who was "didn't smile enough".... no really this is a true story. She also needs constant admiration but it looses its effectiveness over time so even if I constantly give her as much as I can it wont mean anything like when she told me "you don't count, your my husband". She needs admiration from new fresh men all the time. And when I tell her that her relationship with these other men is inappropriate and offensive to me she says I am controlling and insecure. This fact of our marriage is not due to fog, it has been this way for a long time.

As much as I want to keep my family together im starting to wonder if it may be better for my daughter to see the clear contrast between me and my wife. I need time to think.