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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
I also have a very difficult time with the fact that I am having to compete for my wife. Difficult because I have NEVER been the kind of guy that was interested in chasing a woman. The way I have always viewed that is that if a woman doesn't want to be with me then I'm not gonn chase her to try and convince her to want to be with me. This is making it very difficult for me to follow through with many of the things I need to do here. I'm having to fight my urge to just tell her "if you dont want me then get the heck out of here and I'll find someone else."

This situation is different in the respect that we have kids, have been married for years, have built a great life together and love each other under all this extra crap that's going on.

Not that any of those traits are excuses for me not staying on track but maybe it will explain ONE reason why this has been difficult for me to deal with.

Not making excuses...just explaining my personality a little.

Yes, you are competing. And your personality type is one that wants to save his marriage. So you have to work SMART and not hard and put aside your usual tactics. Your usual tactics will not work. And yes, she doesn't want you right now and yes, she has gotten out of there!

You must be STRATEGIC rather than emotional if you want to beat the OM. See, he has no plan! You do! That gives you an advantage he doesn't have if you would just play it smart.

Everytime you feel like lovebusting her, just remind yourself that doing so makes the OM look good! Ask yourself whose side you are on...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Tomorrow is my counter file day. It will be a difficult day for me on one hand. On the other hand though I'm ready to start showing my hand in this fight more than I have up until this point so her and the POSOM know that I'm serious and will not let this go without a fight.

I also plan to put everything I have into Plan A'ing even though I have a difficult time due to personality traits and whatnot doing it in light of her behavior toward me. I'm gonna try to put what I would normally do aside and Plan A the best I can. Again, I may be too late but I have nothing to lose now anyway.

Once I do file and she gets the paperwork, I think i remember y'all telling me that I need to not discuss what is in my counter file when she calls me, right? I just need to tell her that the lawyers will work that stuff out but I'm willing to talk about repairing our marriage. I dont need to go into any detail or explanations about anything in the filing.

I wanted to throw that out there to be sure I am clear on what my duties are after I file tomorrow. I'm going to try to get some sleep now so I'll check back tomorrow for guidance.

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I gotcha Mel. I do.

Most everything I'm having to do here goes against my normal ways of doing things but I DO want to try to save my marriage. I'll do my best to be more strategic and smarter in my approach/tactics.

Again, it may be too late (hopefully not) because I have screwed up so much of the plans that I have been given so far but I'm still gonna try until the judge's gavel drops. If it does turn out that I "lose the battle" because I haven't been a strict follower then I will have to take full responsibility for that.

I am STILL holding out some hope as hard as that is becomming to do...

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Most everything I'm having to do here goes against my normal ways of doing things but I DO want to try to save my marriage. I'll do my best to be more strategic and smarter in my approach/tactics.

Good man! I know how hard this is for you! But I also know you can do it. You can be strategic if it will help you save your marriage. You will do fine.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I am rooting for ya big guy! Keep your chin up!

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My stomach is tied in knots this morning because I know in a few hours I'll be counter filing for divorce. I never thought I would be here.

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Going into lawyer's office.

Heart is breaking to have to do this, but I MUST!

Praying for strength....

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Thank Goodness! You've drug your feet long enough!

I regret that I haven't paid much attention to your thread.
But lordy! What exactly is your idea of Plan A LFH??

(It appears to be not getting mad at her, and accepting her phone calls.)

That is NO WAY to sweep a woman off her feet!

What are her top emotional needs?
What was it like when you first started dating?
What are the best activities you did together?
When is the last time you spent time together (just you and her!)?

Plan A is supposed to demonstrate to her that YOU are the man who can best provide for all of her needs. I've read through your whole thread -- and I am not seeing any proactive measures of COURTING HER. You just seem to be in "stay out of her way" mode.

Its completely clear that she is still involved with him.
She's just gotten better at hiding it. Your first mistake is believing ANYTHING OM had to say. You think just because you talked to him, and he said he wanted nothing to do with her -- that he told you the truth?????? Why would he confide in you?
Lying is a way of life for him, and I promise that YOU are the last person he would be honest with...

She is addicted. She will do anything to preserve her addiction.
She is being friendly and nice just so you won't squirm so much while she destroys your family. She's trying to keep you on an even keel so she can manipulate you into cooperating with the divorce.

My opinion is you need to do MORE carrot and MORE stick!
You haven't done enough of either!

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Lexxxy,

I admit that you're mostly right. The biggest hurdle for my Plan A is that we are separated and she wants nothing to do with me except when she wants or needs something. So it doesn't leave me many opportunities to do anything.

The only "conversation" sessions we have that dont always end in an argument are via email. Kinda hard to court via email.

I do agree that I have pretty much obliterated Plan A up until today. I have just had a hard time with it. She has hurt me so bad and I'm so angry with her it's beed hard for me to be nice to her.

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Now that all this legal crap is thrown into the mix, Plan A'ing is gonn be even more awkward.

I mean, how do I court her and such one minute and the next minute I'm telling her that my lawyer said "blah blah blah"?

Isn't that counter productive? I'm gonna do it for sure but it sure does seem that way.

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I do understand.
But Melody has advised you well -- avoiding confrontation (like not contradicting her when she rambles on with her version of your break-up) actually DIMINISHES you in her eyes.

She has to RESPECT you before she will LOVE you.

And letting her walk all over you has harmed your case greatly.

Don't EVER let her think you agree with her twisted version of the story. She's been pretty free to do damage control after your exposure, hasn't she? How many people still believe that she is divorcing you because she is involved with OM? Or do they know believe her watered down version of not "feeling in love" anymore? And sadly, I bet she's told lots of people YOU AGREE WITH HER!

Counterfiling and bringing CURRENT pressure against the affair is the very best thing you could do for yourself today.

Plan A is not about being nice to her.



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You will not be discussing the divorce with her AT ALL.
If she brings up ANY legal issue, you deflect that to your attorney. Have a few canned phrases ready "I will discuss with my attorney" "My attorney will handle that" etc.
Deflect ALL of her questions regarding divorce that way. Give her NO glimpse of your legal strategies.

In the meantime....answer the previous questions:
What are her top emotional needs? (how did that weasal infiltrate your marriage?)
What did you do on dates before you were married?
What recreational activities do you share?

Let her know you will fight for her.

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Lexxxy,

I'm on my way to pick up my babies. I definitely want to answer your questions and will do so once I get home shortly. I value what you have to say so please check back in a little while if you can.

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Have you identified her top emotional needs?

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration


Just try to focus on the top 3.
You'll have to make an educated guess, because she is not open to having you make love-bank deposits.
Where did OM get his hooks in?


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She actually filled out the EN questionnaire before everything went WAY south. So I'll check that out when I get home.

The POSOM is actually her highschool sweetheart. They actually were married for a month until he cheated on her (as best I can gather) then she divorced him.

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Don't give up LFH.

I've only skimmed through your thread, but you've come a long way from complete and utter denial.

Does your lawyer think you can get custody if it goes to D? Can you get her to pay you child support? I'm sure OM is not going to want to pay you child support if they get married.

Have you secured your finances? Make sure she doesn't drain your checking/savings accounts. What about joint credit cards? Who's paying all the bills now?

Protect yourself. Protect your kids. Plan A.

Save all evidence. Print all evidence.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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LFH .. im just going to regergitate one of my old posts to you... along with that remind her that things DONT have to be like this . that you KNOW how to fix the marriage now .. that she CAN fall in love again with a bit of time and work regardless ofthe pending divorce. REMIND her that this is NOT what you want.. that you want a Loving and fulfilling and successful marriage with her where you BOTH get your needs met and fall in love again.



Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
LFH ... put it this way. You have already lost your wife. Your letter outlines your boundires for her return if SHE wants to agree to them. If not .. thats HER loss because your a NEW man now and forever and you KNOW what went wrong and how to fix it now.

You need to show her that YOU are the great catch (like you did when you courted her before you married) .. YOU have the back bone .. and YOU have too much respect for your self to put up with her antics and games. Do not give her any of your energy when she comes down on you about the past negative things .. you just state "Yeah .. well .. I am not like that anymore".

Make it CLEAR that you realize what went wrong in your marriage own your part of its demise .. and how it happened and your own contribution and that you will NO LONGER be that guy anymore ... you are a NEW MAN .. you have NEW BOUNDRIES and NEW SELF RESPECT and your happiness does NOT depend on your wife being in your life.(women are meant to be a part of our lives and contribute to the amplification of happiness but not the end all be all of your happiness) If you place too much reliance of your happiness on your wife then she will not respect you and this will drive her away. LEAD BY EXAMPLE.


You dont have time to jump every time she asks you (be pleasant but firm in everything) .. nor do you have time to play her mind games. State your conditions (which you did in the letter) .. tell her you wish to spend the rest of your life with her and your kids as a family and grow together and recover your love you once had and make it even better now that you have a new understanding and some great tools (marriage builders) to make sure that your marriage is fulfilling in the future and that you will be sad that she chooses not to recover but you will get on with life if she chooses not to be a part of yours.

Kill your desperation ... if you project ANY of that at all .. you have to get rid of it. Its weakness and she will use it against you.

Do not let your wifes mood effect yours ... Moods are infectious so make your mood (a positive one) more powerful than hers. Example of infectious moods? Ever notice how when somebody says something, and everybody else laughs, even if you don't think its funny, you often laugh too? Happiness spreads. If you act like you are always having a good time, laughing at jokes, etc. it will instantly put all the people around you into a good mood.

Likewise, if you are always down and depressed (i know .. its hard sometimes to beat off the depression due to your situation), people will want to AVOID being around you (including your wife), because your mood drags theirs down too. This is why i suggested you do things for yourself to keep yourself more positive (working out .. doing things with your kids etc). your wife will sense this and possibly realize hat she is missing out on by not giving you another chance.

Something else you could do is find out what it is she likes about the POSOM and be better at doing those things than he is ...

Keep fighting the good fight! But do not drop your self respect to be a doormat.

MNG

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Lexxxy,

Don't know if you're still online or not but her top three ENs are

1. Conversation
2. Openness and Honesty
3. Affection

Lawyer visit was disappointing. I was told that if I asked for full physical custody, the courts would most likely see that as I was trying to punish WW and would be LESS likely to award in my favor. But that doesn't mean that I can't push for close to full during mediation or hearings. I made sure of that.

I will be subpoena-ing hers AND the POSOM's everything, basically. Their bank records, cellphone records, FB accounts, etc., to legally prove the affair and to drag it back out into the open. I talked with the lawyer about this and there doesn't seem to be any problems doing that. I hope doing that will send the POSOM packing and maybe he will tell her to buzz off in the process. All the better for me.

I was told that she would probably get the papers around the middle of next week.

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I started Plan A'ing first thing this morning. I sent her a simple email that said "good morning and hope you have a good day."

She actually emailed back and told me to do the same.

It's kinda weird (maybe not to y'all) but kinda makes sense that it seems like the nicer I am to her, the nicer she is to me. The problem I have when she does that is that I don't believe she's being sincere or genuine. I feel kinda like she sees me being nice and she automatically says "yay...another chance to walk all over him, so I'll be nice back and get what I want."

But, like I said before, I just have pretty much no trust in her at all right now that I just can't believe that she's being true.

Like this afternoon after I picked up the kids from school and was on the way home. She got behind me on the road coming home. Well, when we go to the point where she would turn to go to her sister's house I stuck my hand out the window and waved. She waved back.

Well, that wasn't so out of the ordinary. A couple hours after I got home and was feeding the kids she called. She needed help again with filling out her financial aid for college. That's something I've always done for her when I would do mine. Well I helped her gather all the info she needed and get everything entered....(Plan A'ing). She thanked me and I told her she was very welcome and we hung up.

I know I have a long-standing habit of over analyzing things but I just don't know what to make of it when she calls like that to ask for help. If I were ready to file for divorce (to begin the divorce, not to react to a filing) I wouldn't ask her for help if she was the last person on the planet.

Is that just because of my personality or would anyone else react like I would?

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Originally Posted by looking_for_help
Lexxxy,

Don't know if you're still online or not but her top three ENs are

1. Conversation
2. Openness and Honesty
3. Affection

lfh, she likely won't allow you to meet her needs since she is getting them met elsewhere, but the EN's you focus on are the top 4 intimate emotional needs. Conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. You may be able to meet her need for conversation if you remain as pleasant as possible. Success in that area could lead to the others. THOSE 4 needs are the ones that create romantic and that is where your focus should lie.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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