I asked the MODs to move this to 101...because we have a number of different things going on. (SAA might be more appropriate?) Some EA's on both ends...we are "seperated" she doesn't love me...need help on making Deposits...lots of issues for both of us to work though. I am hoping this moves into the recovery phase but right now she doesn't want to actually put any work in...just sit back and survive. I am working on the recovery side of it. I am fine with any catagory and have greatly appreciated the guidance offered!!!!!

I would move to SAA.

Asked to move to SAA. FIND ME OPTIMIST!!!!

Well been a rough night. OM IM'd my wife on Facebook to tell her that I sent him a few emails. She got so pissed off telling me I have no right to know who she talks to and she doesn't want me looking at her stuff or interfering with her support system. And that she knew he would stick up for her and defended him alot. I told her I wished I had done this back in the winter when she had her EA...and she told me that would have been stuipd because he would have driven over here and tried to beat me up. I am going to assume this is typical...but she is really pissed. I knew that if I talked about it first she would have told me no and was mad that I didn't run it past her first. UGH I AM SO ANGRY the fact that she stood up for her other EA guy.

SAA. Keylog for her FB password, and shut it down. Hang on!

I have a keylog on it from her last EA.....CWMI keep in mind I have had in appropriate conversations on line with girls. So its not like she is the only one at fault. Its just hard because she wants to be able to do whatever she wants. There definatly was an emotional outpouring on Facebook...

And he told her that she needed to delete the conversations. Amazing how people need to delete conversations when there is "nothing" to hide.

You need to expose her affair now.

When she had her affair last time all of the important people in her life told me it was nothing and he meant nothing and I needed to stay out of it. She told me she had to find a friend that wouldn't be "tainted" by Dan. Because all I manipulate everyone in her life...and I always say the right things...In her world me standing up for marriage is manipulating everyone.

I have to think alot about how much I want this to work.

That's why you use the template from here and you won't sound manipulative at all.

You could add a line saying. I know I had an EA back in xyz. I am putting in the changes now to be a better husband and I want to save my marriage, but I can't remain married with three in our marriage.

No worries, Twenty.
You'll get a lot good help here. Folks here have a good understanding of the importance of exposure here but also the need for a good Plan A and how to do it right.

Persistence pays off, so keep at it Phoenix. Good things are already happening because of the positive changes you've made in your life so far. Make no mistake about that.

opt

You're coming from the position of strength, so in contrast her wild emotions are evidence of major discomfort. That's good. It's not supposed to be comfortable to do something devious. You've done well and are disrupting her ability to carry out clandestine activities. You've put a crack in the crack pipe and of course she's going to act with vehemence. No matter. You're the one who is stable here, not her and not OM's. At the end of the day (month/year) you will be the one standing on truth and honesty, and courage for standing up for your family.

The fog babble still amazes me. I don't hang out in SAA, but I still find it mind-blowing how illogical people become when they are being unfaithful.
"Support System," "no right to know...," "he would stick up for (me)..." "support system"
How the human mind can twist things into something so backwards is truly remarkable.

I reiterate. Don't apologize for doing the right thing and standing up for yourself and your family. You did the RIGHT thing. By not apologizing (no matter what vitriol she spews at you) you let her know that this is NOT a marriage where infidelity is tolerated. You make it an uncomfortable choice for her. You take some of the fun out of hitting the infidelity crack pipe.

opt

Thanks for the responses...I am really really angry at her and my love bank is in the red x10000000000 with her so its really hard for me to type anything that will be helpful. She feels like she has a right to privacy so she can talk about her feelings to whomever she wants. To me that is not a marriage... I am so mad and wonder why I am even trying right now.

Are you going to expose to OM family and friends and your WW's facebook friends?

You do know the difference between Privacy and Secrecy, Right?

Privacy is going to the restroom with the door closed. Secrecy? Well you know what that is..

So its been a rough couple of days with some ups and downs. Yesterday was my wife's birthday. Things went pretty well. This morning my wife told me that she feels like I am trying to fix everything and I am trying to step into the role of Father and Husband and into a leadership position in my family. She gets angry with me because she views me as the guest.

I am guessing that I am trying to do too much again and smothering her...Today is probably a bad day for her. Its so hard for me to give her space.

From my wife's perspective she is filled with a lot of anger from my betrayl of her. She feels like she needs to deal with that 1 on 1 with her counselor before going to joint counseling...if we make it that far. What can I do to help her get through her anger? Just give it time?

You can only stop doing whatever it was that made her angry.


Then hope she eventually sees that this "anger" is a choice she's making. I doubt however if her counselor will grasp that, much less anything that will help your marriage; typically they stay employed simply by making people feel good anout making bad choices.

So, yea, just patience and strict adherence to your goal of being a better pheonix.

On the above, if you are contributing to her view of you as a "guest" by portraying yourself as a guest, then i suggest you stop it. Immediately.

She doesn't have to like it, but you have just as much claim to your house as she does. Thats not smothering her, its self-respect. And if she reacts violently please call the police. Please dont let your kids grow up thinking disrespectful behavior is acceptable. It is not.

..,And you dont control other peoples' actions, they do. Its called responsibility and its a gift from God that few choose to embrace because its easier to blame someone else for their own deplorable behavior.

Opt

OPT...i always look forward to your posts.

So progress has been made: I revealed to her that I was sexually abused once as a child and had a teacher slap me in the face and another teacher slam me up against a locker to yell at me. She was very supportive and glad I shared that kind of stuff with her. (She helped dig that out of my past). We have been sleeping in the same bed the past few nights which is also good. We are looking at houses and considering moving. Fresh start. She asked me to rub her feet last night and I did. Slow and steady progress is being made. She is meeting with her counselor today at noon...so that may either help or hurt the situation. Its been a rough road and both her and I have a lot of individual recovery to do in addition to recovering our marriage.

That Is good. Maybe buy a foot care kit from the department store? Thy cost about $16.

I'm very happy for you and encouraged Pheonix. I commend you for your patience and understanding. I hope you can continue to look at things through your MB-eyes. EG: househunting can be VERY stressful, so you'll have to be particularly patient and calm with good andherence to conversation skills of listening and making sure your partner feels heard and understood. But don't agree to something you don't like, because it will cause you to develop resentment (daily, if you are living there). Know what I'm saying?
Hey, this is a great example of why MB is better than "counsellors" out there. I bet her's would advise her to look for 'compromises' and 'give-and-take' solutions. MB looks for win-win and solutions taht are better than either of you could have found indifidually...
Radical Honesty. Good stuff. It's important for you to know as much about each other as possible. It make you feel closer. Isn't it amazing she never knew this in all this time? So many marraiges have things like that. You're not going to dwell on that stuff though, right? It's in your past and doesn't really have to have an influence on your current behavior if you don't want it to, right? You can change your brain chemistry with repeated behaviors which become habits which repeated become part of your character. Right?

These types of statements still baffle me about you Phoenix. Why not just follow the MB plan? Identify and eliminate Lovebusters. Identify and meet each other's emotional needs. Recreat your behaviors and habits. Fall in love with each other. Seems way more simple than "working on" something. And way more fun, in my view.

All this "individual recovery" business just sounds like "Individual Behavior" to me.

[If you found that opening up to her was helpful, you may consider some of the workbook material, historical inventory stuff which can be found here somewhere...]

opt