Did you listen to the clips? What did you think?

I'm so sorry, Anointed. His saying this speaks clearly: he is unwilling to do what it takes to have a great marriage. His desires are more important than considering your feelings. That hurts so much.

I know you're pregnant, I see you doing everything to make this work. You are highly motivated to create a great marriage, and you are keeping your side clean...and I am glad you're being honest with him about what you are uncomfortable with.

If he doesn't listen, if he keeps doing things that he knows hurt you, then it may be time for a separation. You are crying almost every night, he continues to IB and reject EPs. He's had multiple affairs and it seems like he doesn't care to avoid them even now.

Oy. I'm sure others have better advice, but I would consider a Plan B.

(((((((((Anointed)))))))))

and kindest thoughts to you today.

Unwillingness to have EPs is a deal breaker, Anointed.
These are not things he has any room to negotiate.
If he is not willing to follow EPs, and is not willing to give up his Independent Behavior, he is not marriage material.
He is not recovering the marriage. Even if he had never had an affair, this behavior is not acceptable.

If Markos behaved like this, I'd kick him to the curb.

Anointed, you have been doing great. You have put so much into this marriage -- you've been adopting MB, and have made GREAT improvements in yourself and in how you treat your husband.


But he's not even willing to adopt basic EPs?

You've become someone he doesn't deserve to be married to.

I think it's time for you to call it quits. At least until he is willing to participate in a program of recovery.

Read:
When to Call it Quits letter 1
When to Call it Quits letter 2

I just can't. I have never been committed to my marriage like I am now. I have been quick to look for an out because I thought he was just going to leave me anyway.

I am committed. 100%.

We have had his family in town for 1 week, and we've had a very nice time together. I've met his need for SF a couple of times and we've just been pleaseant and lovey dovey.

Then I saw your posts and remembered that my needs have still not been addressed. His family left today, so at lunch I broached the subject again.

I let him know again that these EPs are necessary for me to feel safe in the marriage, and I want him to WANT to do it. I don't want to be a ball and chain to him.

He said I was threatening to leave the marriage, and I wasn't. I told him that a marriage cannot last with the two of us disregarding each others' needs. I told him I am committed to working on meeting his.

He told me that 2 of those things he doesn't even mind doing (I guess it's the not going out without me and the not hugging women). He said maybe he just is being mean by not meeting those EPs for me.

I said, "What the hell???"

I asked him why he would pick a subject that goes straight to the core of my soul and brings me all the way back to day 1, and he said that he wasn't the one who brought up the conversation. I told him that it is the NEED for the conversation that is the problem.

I told him we needed to go to Affair Recovery because if he truly knew what he had done to me, he would NEVER say what he was saying to me. I told him I wasn't interesting SHAMING him, just getting him information so that I can get help.

I told him that I was being vulnerable, showing him my tears, and he was sitting there like a stone.

He said, "What do you want me to do? Cry with you?"

That was enough. I went to my closet and cried the deepest gutwrenching cries I've cried in many, many years.

He came in the closet after a few minutes and said that he loved me and these conversations made him not want to have them at all.

I told him that when I tell him in small ways what I need he doesn't respond. When I tell him in big ways he doesn't respond. So I hold it in til I can't bear it and then this happens.

I told him I am trying to show him parts of me that I've never shown him, and I told him I'd have SF right now if he didn't have to go to work and that is HUGE.

My walls of protection are coming down because I do love my DH, and I know that God is my protector.

I told him I wasn't interested in shaming him or making him feel badly; I just need some things to help me feel better. I told him I cannot keep sweeping these feelings under the rug because they always come around again.

He's worried that doing the Affair Recovery program won't help things, but we've never had any assistance like that. Not from people who specialize in teaching the former wayward exactly what they did to the betrayed and helping them both come out the other side without shame.

I want to try it at least.

I know my husband loves me. I know it to my core. He does the whole "jerk" persona at times, and I just don't understand why. He even said so at lunch today. "Maybe I just want to be a jerk."

There is so much under the surface for him, and I know what God has said about him is true. I know it.

He loves me, and he will do what I need. I know he will.

This is not going to work, Anointed. The answer is not to get him to understand what his affair did to you. The answer is to start a program of RECOVERY. He needs to get onboard with MB.

HOW do you know?

We all know and believe that, Anointed. We have seen it.

But your husband is NOT committed. What are you going to do to protect yourself from him?

There have been many people on this site who are completely committed to their marriages, 100%, who have had an abusive husband or wife and have had to take steps to protect themselves. It does not lessen their commitment at all, and I'm sure you don't mean to imply that they are not committed.

You are committed to this marriage.

If your husband was committed to this marriage, he would:
* Take extraordinary precautions to protect your marriage,
* Follow the Policy of Joint Agreement to make sure that everything he does is caring toward you,
* Protect you from abusive behavior like angry outbursts, including taking anger management if needed

That is what commitment would look like.

I guess I could ask him to post again, but I didn't want to demand it.

He doesn't like to read much, so I tell him what I've learned and he is fairly open to it.

I think he has felt attacked in the past (mostly by me) and is not interested in posting here.

But this is where I have received the most help. I posted exactly what happened and y'all showed me what I did wrong.

That is priceless!

(In my head I could go on and on with what he does wrong but seeing my side of the street takes some interaction from this board.)

I am very grateful for what each of you have done to help me.

To answer your question, Prisca, I know he will do what I need because I know it. I know he loves me desperately. I don't know what God is doing in him right now, but I know He is doing something.

God promised to honor me if I stayed in this marriage. I know God will keep His word.

Ok, markos.

I don't know what to say. I just have to believe he will.

If he doesn't, well then I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

He wants this marriage to work. I've seen him to some hard work, and behavior like today puzzles me.

He has reached out to me when I've been the pokiest of porcupines and hugged me anyway. He has taken steps when I've been unwilling. He has shown me over and over again that he is committed.

Honestly, I think it may just be pride. It is my idea and he may feel like I'm "forcing" this new way on him.

He told me today it might be pride. And that sometimes he pushes back on the things I need because it is only "fair" for the times I have pushed back on his needs.

He kept bringing up that I don't like to give him blowjobs. It has been a subject of contention for years and one I have been working on lately. (That is why I went to therapy for sexual abuse to try to get past it.) I felt like I was making progress, but it sounds like he is holding this things against me. He has been very hurt that I've been unwilling or if I've done it, I didn't want to do it.

He compared EPs to my not liking blowjobs. We both want each other to WANT to do it.

It sounded like it really hurts him that I don't.

Not sure where all that came from but there it is.

Stone cold truth.

I know we are meant to get past this and help others. I'm willing to put my stubborn ways aside. I hope he is, too.

That is not knowing. That is hoping.

Did you read that quote from Dr. Harley I posted? You could very easily be hoping the same hope in 20 years, when nothing has changed.

It's time for you to stand up for your marriage and tell him that things are going to have to change. It's time for him to start doing.

So far, he isn't doing. He's complaining about having to protect the marriage, and he's verbally abusing you. He's not putting much effort into the two of you.

Hoping he will change while he walks all over you is not attractive, btw. Standing up for yourself and telling him that he is no longer going to treat you or this marriage this way, on the other hand, has more chance of attracting his attention.

Insisting that he must start a program of recovery in order to stay married to you

BTW Prisca, he said today that he feels like the affairs come up every few months.

I feel like such a failure.

That is ridiculous.
One is to protect the marriage. Which cannot be negotiated.
The other is a desire that can be negotiated.

Yikes! You may not see this, but you are enabling your H's poor boundaries. He doesn't have to WANT to do EPs in order to do them. They are non-negotiable and help make the marriage safe.

My FWH didn't want to do them either at first, but there was no way I was going to allow myself further torment by waiting for him to WANT to follow them. He followed them because he loved me and wanted our marriage and following them was the way he could have a chance at keeping me.

The interesting thing is: over the past year and a half since we began the MB journey, he actually likes the EPs because he knows they will make him a better man. He has begun to like who he is. He fully confesses to being a complete jerk in the past and despises the man he was then. He wishes he had a "do-over," so he could start out being a decent man and good husband from the beginning instead of waiting all these years, after causing so much pain.

He says my drawing my line in the sand and holding my ground with dignity was the starting point and actually THANKS me for staying with him under these non-negotiable rules.

Please don't enable him. Draw your own boundaries. Yes, of course, God will protect YOU, as He protected and loved me throughout the agony, but ultimately, I was the one who drew my own line in the sand, knowing I was within biblical principles.

This is exactly why I think going to Affair Recovery will only be devastating to your marriage.

Talking about the affair like this only hinders recovery.

You would do much better to sit down one day and ask what ever you need to ask, and talk about whatever you need to talk about concerning the affair, and then NEVER BRING IT UP AGAIN. And then commit to a program of recovery together -- this program of recovery is how your marriage will heal. Talking about the affair only does damage.

Dr. Harley says that a marriage will never recover as long as you are dwelling on the affair. While it may feel good to you to discuss it, it is detrimental to your husband and will only hurt you in the end.

Insisting how? I feel like I've done that in the past and was told not to threaten to leave. I've told him that I need this. So what? Just leave?

Don't talk about it more? Just make plans and leave?

How do I reconcile this with my deep committment and belief in this marriage?

Also, how do I not bring up the affair when he is balking on keeping EPs?

I told him what this does to me...how can the affair NOT come up when this is to prevent it from ever happening again?