Yes, but I've already suggested this, and she's not willing to at this time. Honestly, I think she'd be more willing after the reunions and my military training are over with to do something like this. The good news is she still talks about the future together with me and makes plans about us after my military training.

The MC is my best bet right now. She's agreeable to him and he's saying a lot of the similar things that MB's talks about.

Is there much difference between SH and JC as far as marriage coaching goes? Does one have more specialty than the other for different scenarios?

But, he has not been effective in selling her on a plan to restore the love in your marriage. He is not your best bet if he is not effective. That is why I am suggesting Steve. Steve could tell you what to say to persuade her to get on the phone with him. And once she gets on the phone, he can be very persuasive.

The besT time to get her on board is before you go. You have lots of time with her now and that would be ideal.

We've only seen him a couple times due to the move to another state. I saw a lot of progress in that short time, so I'm willing to give it more time. I'll talk to him indivudally this week, and he's expressed the same concern in the past, that restoring love is tantamount to moving forward.

I mean you can't compare sexual union between a husband and wife with changing the oil in her car. It's so much more than that which is why this is so much worse that she's so against it.

Sorry dude, it is EXACTLY the same.

You exhibit evidence of "neutering" from the estrogen-fueled intelligentsia that controls the society we live in.

As long as you are willing/eager to be led around by the nose by the women (in the locus-personae of WW) who claim some kind of "primacy" of the SF EN above all others, you and she will stand no chance of making a go of your union.

Here's how this started: Bring home a chunk of sabre-tooth tiger to feed the youngsters and stay-at-home neanderthal women -> get sex. Show up without tiger -> read neanderthal "PlayCave".

Ten million years later, you're chipping in your tiger-meat and accepting "I have a problem with having sex with you." Then you complain to us, but disagree with the truth of the previous paragraph.

Sadly, the society that we inhabit will not let your progeny starve. So the ability you have to withhold your tiger-meat pending a little WW-affection is diluted. But diluted or not, you're willing to accept the crappy exchange (tiger for no....alternative satisfaction) without even the fight!

Straight up dude, you cannot ASK her to change. You may have the capacity to COMPEL her to change. But you won't do that, will you?


**edit**

I'll talk to him indivudally this week, and he's expressed the same concern in the past, that restoring love is tantamount to moving forward.

Oh, dear GOD......Sorry, I've tossed my grenade for the week. Tex, do you want to take this one?

What do you suggest I do NG? Concrete example? I don't think demanding sex will make the situation better. She knows I want to be intimate, she knows I want her to touch me and love me physically. She's even acknowledged that's a worthy desire to have as a spouse, but she feels she's incapable of providing that until she feels 'COMFORTABLE' with it again. I'm at a loss of what to do without lovebusting. I mean she literally freaked out and withdrew from me physically when she offered and attempted to hold my hand during a couple's prayer together a couple weeks ago. How is THAT overcome by anything I DO?

I read a post a few weeks ago about a WW who was posting on here. I can't remember her SN, but essentially she was complaining how she felt like SF was her husband's way of 'using' her, she felt used by it and wouldn't give that to her husband because of that sentiment. She was someone who used to be overweight, but had lost a lot of weight and that was a contributing factor to her affair. Someone gave a great analogy(can't remember it very well) about how giving your spouse SF is not being 'used' for your body. Not sure if anyone else is familiar with this post and that analogy that was used there. I'd be interested in reading it again if I could locate it.

It was WPG, and her current situation and yours are similar. In each case the spouse wanted his/her EN supplied, but not reciprocate to our poster's needs.

As for turning your WW around, only two methods are espoused here. Plan A her into grateful acknowledgemnt that you might be someone worthy of some SF. Plan B her, cutting off HER EN's to show her how barren life can be with an emotionally absent spouse.

Your call, but Plan A is essentially what you've been attempting to do for a while, (Holding hands while praying, sympathetically listening to her barf up nonsense about her "feelings" not connecting with her "heart", etc) only resulting in the pain/frustration/confusion that comes through to us in your postings. And once Plan A is known to be a failure.....

HH-This is one my favorite NGisms, actually. If you read a few times, you may get the gist of it. To me, it describes the sub-par goings-on in my bedroom to what I asked for, nay, demanded after I caught my wife cheating on me.

After she was caught having a sexual relationship with another man, I chose to stay married but I made several parts of marriage designated for change and at the top of the list was SF.

Your current state of sexuality in your marriage (and certainly what is was prior to dday) seems to be similar to mine as well. Its not a job, er..so to speak, not a respsonsibilty, not a 'oh geez, again with this horny freak?' situation, its about a partnership she signed onto 15 years prior, faltered on terribly, and then I gave her another chance to live up to her end of.

I dont ask my wife for SF anymore. I simply TELL her. Or, in fact, in a major change of normal course of action, she'll actual take the initiative. This is not to boast, well, may be a bit. This is an extremely normal thing in happy marriages I have come to learn. Who knew? She has said to me in a moment of passion that depriving me of a normal sex life is near the top of her regrets.

I remember in the bad old days, I used to have to beg for it with things like, 'you have the sexuality of a nun', and 'all I need is 10 minutes, maybe 5, of your time', and other things to badger her into bed. A married man commited to his wife had to beg for a normal function between couples?

On my list of things that will change was that above scene. After 13-14 months of a much improved SF life, Im not sure how (or why) I lived so long without it being normal. The affair itself is emasculating and add in begging for your wife's affection while she was having sex with someone else. Uh-uh. No more. Life is way too short after knowing what she was doing.

I dont know if my interpretation of NGs analogy is quite what he was getting at but I recommend you get to place where 'cleaning her oil' is something you do whether its scheduled or not.

I am plan A-ing all the way through right now. I'm providing her with what she's expressed to me that she wants. Things have gotten dramatically better. Last night she was even talking about the distant future of when I could be potentially stationed on a ship and she being home along by herself for that time with the kids while she was talking to her folks.

We're going to have a semi-natural plan B in effect in essence when I go to military training in August for 5 weeks.

Do you have a link to that post? I can't seem to find that post. Thanks.

I guess I may be too dense and missed the meaning of the analogy altogether again as I think you confused me even more to what he was actually trying to communicate. I appreciate your post, though.

The other dynamic I am faced with is that she thinks I'm just as culpable because I wasn't honest and open with her about my pornography usage in the past. This REALLY bothers her a lot. We talked about it before we got married and I thought I was past it then, but the fact that I never came to her about it after we were married has been a major hold up to her. She says she knows she's done worse, but this still bothers her and it's something I've stopped and have placed all the proper EP's to avoid it in the future too. She feels like I've been unfaithful to her because of it and that she wasn't/isn't good enough.

Sure I can dismiss those feelings, but this is the reality I'm faced with, her perception is still my reality(even as fog-ridden as they may seem).

You're right. It won't. Demanding sex would make things worse.


Follow Mel's advice:

I agree with MelodyLane's advice, and here is why: according to Dr. Harley, women need two things before they will begin to feel like having sex: an emotional connection, and the prospect of enjoyment. In other words, they need to be in LOVE with you, and they need to feel that it is likely that you will make love in a way they enjoy.

Plan A (and/or the making of MASSIVE love bank deposits) generates that emotional connection. It does not feel vital to a man, but it feels OH SO VITAL to a wife! Of course it is best if she can start making love to her husband as soon as possible (and if so you should take GREAT CARE to make it EXTREMELY enjoyable for her!) in order to build the habit and positive associations, but you should not do anything that would be perceived as forcing her or pressuring her to have sex, or even showing yourself to be impatient, as you'll be making love bank withdrawals and making it even harder for her to ever feel like making love.

Dr. Harley says that once that romantic love threshold is crossed, it is a SUDDEN change, and men call him up wondering if their wives have taken hormones or something, because suddenly they want to be sexual with the man they love. It comes on without warning, not gradually.

Please give a listen to the Marriage Builders radio clip I am about to post. What you want is for your wife to be in love with you, because then her instincts will prompt her to feel like meeting your emotional needs. Women have much MUCH less stamina than a man does for meeting emotional needs when their own emotional needs are not being met. You have to come through with your own end of making love bank deposits, possibly for longer than you expect and to a greater degree than you expect.

This is very, very typical. Even when men have done NOTHING at all blameworthy, wives typically blame them for their affairs, sometimes even long into recovery.

It does not prevent recovery, and it does not prevent you from having a good marriage. What could prevent that, though, is trying to have a discussion to straighten this out. Don't try to deny, contradict, fix, debate, or whatever to her feelings. She feels you are to blame, and that's okay. It doesn't change anything about the program or recovery.

By the way, I suggest becoming a regular listener to Dr. Harley's radio show program. It gives a very, very accurate picture about what to expect from a (formerly) wayward wife. Some of it can be very demoralizing, and counterintuitive. And that can be so disappointing that you start making love bank withdrawals trying to get your needs met in order to recover. She OUGHT to be begging for the chance to do anything possible to make it up to you, but that is not going to happen, and if it did it would be so degrading to her that I promise you would never recover a happy marriage.

I asked her what are the 3 things I could do that would help make her feel more loved by me, and then asked what 3 things I could stop doing to help frustrating her.

She won't answer them, she says it's because they deal with intimacy. She correlates intimacy and affection as nearly the same thing. I'm convinced Affection is her #1 EN, but she won't let me meet that Need. #2 I think is recreational companionship - this is hard to do because we have 5 month old twins that dominate our time and energy right now.

I've listened occasional to the radio program, it's definitely good.