The main EN's that I'm 'allowed' to make are DS, FC, and FS. I can't be affectionate. IC typically has led to relational talk because if it's about plans, or dreams the RELATIONSHIP inevitably comes up because she has feelings of contemplating divorce. She hasn't gone through with a divorce for 2 main reasons.

1) She's admitted she's not in the proper state of mind to make a life-altering decision and
2) The kids - she's admitted I'm a great father and doesn't want to take the kids away from me nor the me from the kids.

She's stated that romantic love is a must, but that she doesn't have it for me. However, when I TRY to meet her needs she resists - I KNOW for a fact AFFECTION is #1. She's telling me it's SF, but I'm fairly certain that's not a top 1 or 2 for her. Aff and RC have always been her top 2 throughout our marriage. Just now after her affair has she placed such high priority to SF. So how do we achieve 'romantic' love when I'm not allowed to meet her top needs, even if SF truly is #1, it's not happening. I can't hug her, she even gets upset when I call her sweetie sometimes. She doesn't want me to tell her I love her either. She views all that as 'pressure'.

We've done a few things together and each time I think they've helped she'll later tell me that she was completely uncomfortable doing it and makes it sound like a LB withdrawal.

So I'm at a loss of WHAT TO DO. Basically I feel like she's telling me, SIT ON YOUR HANDS and WAIT for her to change herself.

You're right. Very good advice. I've acknowledged my errors and apologized for how I have made her feel. I'm turning over a new leaf and am trying my best to be a better husband and become more in tune to her needs. She says things have always come difficult or unnatural in terms of creating the feeling of love in our relationship. That marriage should be easy and natural(I think there are times that's true, but reality has a way of changing that from being there ALWAYS. IMO).

You will have to achieve all of this without her handing you the map.

It is possible.

The reason she is not willing to let you meet her intimate emotional needs is she is in withdrawal. It's all in Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts. Review them regularly.

I agree she's still in withdrawal, it's been almost 2 full months since strict no contact(no more visiting FB page)--- I'm a dense male, obviously. So I'll know she's coming out of withdrawal (which could take upwards of 6 months or so) when she's willing to be affectionate with one another again?

Hi HH

I'm almost through your thread and have a few suggestions for you. My ex is former military so I know how the deployments suck especially being bad timing but there are still things you can do to Plan A your WW even while gone. Will be back later tonight.

Thanks, any advice on that subject could be very beneficial. I'm dreading those 5 weeks being away from my family. What HORRIBLE timing indeed. I was suppose to go in June, but thankfully I was able to not go until August.

Oh something I haven't mentioned that my wife said today...
we were discussing moving our stuff in August to our new location because the movers have to come out and check out the house before the move tomorrow. My wife has agreed in the past to get rid of our bed( 1 - Because hello MAJOR trigger, and 2) it's run it's course as well). She asked me what I wanted to do with the bed, get rid of it there or move and and get rid of it.

So her thought processes are to stay in the marriage, though she says her 'feelings' struggle with the idea of divorce.

Is this normal?

You asked on another thread what is Plan C.

Please read. BSs...Plan C is not a plan

I'm avoiding relationship talk outside of our MC we're seeing right now. So I was wondering if I could get some assistance on dealing with my feelings about a few things my wife has said that really bother me.

First, I asked her a few weeks ago to admit that her feelings for the OM weren't real(whether or not I should have or not is irrelevant, I understand now I shouldn't have). She wouldn't do it. This still bothers me. I think if she read SAA she'd figure out a lot faster what really happened to her.

Second, I really want a re-assurance that for us as a couple, divorce is not an option, because I don't think that going forward we're going to do the things to each other that would warrant a divorce. I believe that successful marriage learn to work through their problems and that when divorce is taken off the table negotiating in good faith can occur. Is this an unreasonable request or expectation on my part?

Third, I believe Love is verb and that the feeling of love is the fruit of the action of love. It bothers me that we're just roommates at this point and that we're not working as a team to restore romantic love. She feels that she can't actively love until the feeling of love is present. I guess that the crux of this thread for me, is that I feel completely handicapped in restoring 'romantic' love. That meeting my wife's emotional needs shouldn't be a love buster and it frustrates me entirely.

We don't fight, we don't argue much, we have a very healthy and cooperative parenting relationship, but the 'romantic' love is missing. I feel like she killed off any lingering of 'romantic' love between us with her affair and that she's comparing her illusion of infatuation with what real romantic love is. Is this a disrespectful judgment on my part to feel this way?

Fortunately, MSS did not suggest "demanding" SF, which would be the favorite "phantom bogey-man" of the feminist fringe. In reality, staying with my base analogy, males could no more "demand" SF than females could "demand" an oil change. Read his words again:

its about a partnership she signed onto...years prior, faltered on terribly, and then I gave her another chance to live up to her end of.

I dont ask my wife for SF anymore. I simply TELL her. Or, in fact, in a major change of normal course of action, she'll actual take the initiative. This is not to boast, well, may be a bit. This is an extremely normal thing in happy marriages I have come to learn. Who knew? She has said to me in a moment of passion that depriving me of a normal sex life is near the top of her regrets.

Allowing for certain degrees of variation, this should approximate the NORM of a mutually supportive and loving marriage. (All bets may be off for irrepairable physical/emotional pathologies affecting either party.)

Oh gosh, how oh how do I make sure I'm plan A-ing all the time? I am constantly reeling from some of the 'open and honest' talk of her feelings.

Get rid of the bed if it is an A trigger. Get a new one and hopefully you and the Mrs. will christen it soon. Don't drag A triggers, especially something as intimate as the marital bed, into your new house.



Her feelings were real, HH. That is a bitter pill for BSs to swallow. A BS would love to see their WS hate the AP but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes it does but it also depends on the type of A and a bunch of other factors.


You are being unrealistic. There are always options with anything in life. To say otherwise is denial and delusion. You may not like or want that option but it is always an option.


It is normal to be frustrated and of course you are bothered that your WW is withdrawn. Every BS faces frustrations especially if there is withdrawl involved. See #1 about a WS's feelings. You can go round and round thinking about this...not matter what the answer is or how you choose to see it, it pretty much sucks. There is nothing loving about an affair. I'm sure someone else can explain this better.


That is not a DJ. That is pretty much what a withdrawn WS does...especially WWs.

The family reunions - Plan A by having fun with WW and the kids. You can also use this time to cement relationships with her family members who may lend support if WW is still withdrawn and not getting with the program. Keep these events upbeat. If WW wants to be a sour puss, you still keep upbeat and enjoy your family time.

Plan Aing while away for training -

If you will have access to a computer, you can skype with her if it is allowed. Or use Facetime if that is an option. Ck to see what forms of communication are allowed so you can "see" each other. If you can do this and she seems resistant, tell her you want to see your children and don't argue about it. She will have to be present in some capacity for you to see the kids. And if she still hides you can still check in with the inlaws and see your kids.

Hide cards or love notes either in places she will come across them at various times or get the inlaws involved...give them to MIL/FIL and ask them to leave one out for her to find every other day (or whenever) so that she is reminded that you are thinking about her. They don't have to be long and syrupy...and shouldn't be. Short and sweet; a funny joke to make her laugh; and old pic of you two...think of the things that make her smile.

Flowers - another way to make a nice gesture and let her know you are thinking of her. You can pre-order for future delivery. No need to go overboard but one or two arrangements while you are gone can't hurt. Card should be short and sweet. And if she absolutely hates flowers for some reason, there are other things you can use in lieu of that. Point is make the effort. Worst case you score additional points with the inlaws who will see your effort too and MIL can enjoy them. You may even send MIL an arrangement...always a nice thank you.

Back with more soon...

Here's a good thread on deployments.
Amazin's deployment Thread

Just wanted to point out that the starter of that thread almost divorced now. [divorce filed, they are just waiting for it to be final] Deployments and traveling jobs are a disaster to marriages.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I think it is important to face reality.

Dr. Harley takes the issue of selfish demands extremely seriously. Not only is it a love buster, in the case of SF it can create a sexual aversion.

Demands are a short sighted way to get what you want. They may get what you are looking for, but they will make you less likely to keep getting it long term.

Doesn't sound like a "phantom bogey man" to me when I read what Dr. Harley has to say.


Am I reading right that you are saying it is logically impossible for husbands to demand SF?


Okay, so the implication here is that she [b]SHOULD meet his SF need, which is a disrespectful judgment, and a nasty bit of entitlement that is pretty much completely the opposite of what Dr. Harley has to say about this.

And as a bonus, there's the subtle stick of resentment being used as a weapon: I'm so gracious to give you another chance after your affair, so you ought to be grateful for the chance to meet my needs. Dr. Harley counsels a wife in such a situation to basically set her husband down and explain "Listen, Buster, do you want to be in love with me? Because if you do, the way you are going about it is all wrong. You are not acting in ways I find attractive; you are acting in ways I find DISGUSTING!"


Okay, I'm going to be all for male initiative and aggression here in the context of a loving marriage and in a context where it's understood that a wife wants to be treated that way. BUT, "simply tell her"? Order her around, in other words? So the advice being handed out here is that a betrayed husband in recovery should order his wife to make love to him? Use selfish demands to get your needs met?

Or am I misunderstanding? (If I am, I wonder how many others will make the same misunderstanding...)

I have an idea. Since this is Marriage Builders dot com, and since the Marriage Builders plan for restoring love and intimacy in marriage works, why don't we advise this husband using Marriage Builders concepts?

When I presented my recently discovered cheating wife my list things I will require to remain married to her, all I thought about was the sex she was having with her OM.

I didnt care one bit about the lunches, shopping, and anything else they did together. I cared about the sex.

I cared about how I spent years deprived of her and how she didnt deprive him.

Therefore, the list of conditions which was accepted without any issue started off with SF-related items.

I wanted to claim her back and all the mental damage, I felt, could be somewhat healed if that element of married rose to a "normal" level.

I will never beg or browbeat for it like before. I TELL HER I WANT WANT HER. If she is not into it for any reason, she will tell me and she has done so since dday.

Im pretty sure MB tells you to list the conditions for recovery and just compensation and to present them to the WS. What are needs may not be your needs, so I resent your implications.

I simply was advising this BH to establish what he wants as his new normal as I did whether its in bed or keeping the house clean or helping with finances.

I think the bolded clarifies a lot. Your original comment without this clarification sounded pretty much like a wtf? Thanks for clarifying.


Agreed

Thanks for the update. How sad. That's why Dr. H always says to get out. When my WH was deployed I said never again.