We need to schedule 15-20 hrs UA time. Right now he is spending his spare time on this site. I'm ok with that for the moment.

He did say he'd like SF 4-6X a week. We average 2X a week. We'd really need a schedule for that to happen with our timeframes and the aches and fatigue during this pregnancy...

Financial Support- I'm starting to bring in a little cash here and there from my new business. It's all I can do at the moment.

Admiration- he'd like 10 compliments a day. I can work on that

Family Commitment- Not sure how to measure that but I can be sure I'm finished with my own projects by the time Ship and the kids get home.

Thanks NED, this is so encouraging to me. When I asked Ship to forgive me, he said he did. Then I said I wasn't sure I could forgive myself. I had been punishing God's son all these years.

Then he said, "so you are going to punish God's daughter?"

Point taken.

I guess I didn't realize just how muddy my side was, and I'm going to focus on being caring.

I totally agree. I have done much better about AOs with Ship, but the kids really push me. I will work on it. I have felt very overwhelmed with the state of my marriage, and I have not handled the pressures of having a teen, pre-teen, and toddler at the same time.

It is high on my priority list.

One thing I did recently was to email my 13DD when I was upset with her. It was so great so that I didnt' have an AO or DJ. I may implement this with her for a while until I become safer for her.

I (respectfully!) wonder about this list.

Honesty and openness are typically female, because women like to know their husband's deepest feelings, and they like to talk about these things. Honesty and openness is also typically top of either spouse's list when they have been the BS. Your H isn't a BS, is he? So, would you say from what you know about him that he really seeks to know everything about you from your past, your current emotions, your future desires, your reactions...your deepest feelings?

And financial support? Is he really saying he needs to feel financially supported by you in order to feel in love with you? So if he were earning lots of money, he would still lose love for you if you chose to stay at home with your kids? Again, that is typically a female need. If a woman is capable of earning a lot of money, she still wants a husband who works and can support her. Many women lose respect for men who lose their jobs or do not earn enough.

Lastly, Family Commitment? He wants you to be a devoted mother more than he wants you to be his companion in recreational activities?

I know what DrH says about the needs being changeable between the sexes and so on, but - to get to my point - I'm wondering whether he really understands that ENs are needs that he needs filling in order to fall in love with you.

Does he really place the needs I have picked out from his list as being more important for falling in love than an attractive spouse, or a recreational companion? Really? Surely he did not fall in love initially with you because of your earning potential or your family commitment.

Good observation SC!

Also Dr. Harley suggests that if the top needs are not of the intimate kind that the spouse is often in withdrawl.

SC, You said out loud what I my mind was thinking but couldn't articulate. Anointed, I'd also love to hear your thoughts on SC's questions.

If those were his top EN's, then this affair partner must've been one kid-totin' sugar momma with a loud mouth! I'm thinking the Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe and just won the lottery?

Instead of questioning that these are his needs, why not ask for examples of what it would look like to be meeting those needs?

For example, I could see FS to be simply being on the same page with regard to money. Budgeting, value shopping, etc. Supporting financially by not spending all or more than what you make.

I'm not saying Dr H defines it that way, I giving an example of how one MIGHT define it.

I believe the Q's are nothing more than an opening to a dialog. I.E. you say these are your needs, give concrete examples so I can meet them.

Anointed, you see from my sig line I have a teen and preteen too. Yes kids push, especially if you've been so stressed out with the marriage that you haven't been able to plan much FC time with them. It's like the squeaky wheel got the grease, so they felt they had to play the game too. But you and Ship are moving the furniture now. You will plan ahead of time to succeed, not fly by the seat of your pants. And as you demonstrate thoughtful requests, respectful persuasion, negotiation, and the Friends of Good Conversation,they'll soak it up, too. When you sit with Ship tomorrow to plan out the UA time for the week, put some family activities in there, too. They'll surprise you how quickly they respond to your changes.

I would say 2 of the 3 are very typically male; admiration and SF.

As for O&H?

In his first post he made a claim that he felt "misrepresented."

Now, I can't speak as a FWH - but as a BH O&H is still at the top of my list.

I would postulate that his need for O&H is driven by the current state of marital crisis, and he needs O&H to assess the situation so that he can direct his course.

As things progress, those needs may change or fall in order of importance. But, I would again guess that O&H is going to float near the top.

As for the rest; the short and simple answer is...





































... 20+ hours per week of UA time spent meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs.

If this are his needs then his spouse does indeed need to ask for examples how to meet them. That is the only way that needs can be met successfully, after all.

I don't know why you suggest it as an alternative to clarifying if those are his needs, though. I have seen this done on the private online forum by Dr Harley. Our coach has done this to us. I would not have suggested clarifying if I hadn't seen, in my marriage and in other people's, that the concept of romantic ENs is sometimes misunderstood.

What do you think is wrong with clarifying?

I have email correspondence with someone who used to post here when I first arrived, who doesn't post here now. She and her H consulted with Steve Harley for several sessions.

Her H had had affairs and one-night stands during business travel. When he filled in the ENQ he put Family Commitment and something else non-intimate in the list, and Steve had him take them out. He said that he obviously hadn't fallen for OWs and prostitutes because of their family commitment. Steve told him that he was filling in the ENQ the way he thought his spouse would like him to respond, to prove that he was now being a good husband. What he had missed from the list were admiration, which is a typical needs that is met in affairs, and attractive spouse, which is a need for most men, especially those who chat up pretty women when they are married, as this WH did.

I used the knowledge gained from my own and other people's coaching, including the private forum, when I wrote the post. What were you going on EE, when you challenged me?

HHH, I do appreciate the point you are making, but I still don't see what is wrong with Anointed speaking to her H to clarify the situation, as Dr Harley, Steve Harley and the coaches do, rather than anyone here postulating and guessing. It is true that I made suggestions for alternative needs, but I did suggest discussing them with her H. I did not try to impose my view of his ENs, and I don't know why my post has garnered this reaction.

Steve re-ordered my H's self-reported needs during coaching, as well, by asking him questions about different situations and which ones made him feel closer to me.

The questionnaires probably confuse this issue--it does instruct you to rank them according to which would make you happiest if it was the only need that would be met. My H, at the time, felt he would be happiest if the house was spotless all the time. He wouldn't be in love, but his OCD would be soothed! Of course that would make him happy.

Also, for someone in withdrawal, they are only looking at personal happiness, not marital happiness. It's almost like saying, "Hm, if I could get somebody to do things for me without requiring anything in return, what would that be? Oh, I know! Fawning admiration, money, and someone to take care of the kids and house!"

Odd, I thought I was suggesting she clarify it by getting examples of what meeting those needs looks like.

No, you told her to do that instead of my suggestion. Don't be disingenuous. You know you were arguing against my suggestion. At least be honest.

Can the two of you work together to make that happen this week?

I remember coming home and finding Prisca reading His Needs, Her Needs, and feeling the same!

At one point on the radio show, I heard Dr. Harley comment that when we see the prospect that our emotional needs are going to be met, it deposits love units. Then, of course, we have to follow through lest those love units be withdrawn.

Huh?

I believe your false accusations are in violation of the terms of service here.

It's ironic that you would engage in DJ's in a topic about DJ's.

I was being honest, I suggested she take the list, as is, and use it to engage in dialog. I believe that would be far more productive than to approach him as if one doesn't believe those are really his needs.

Who would remain engaged in a dialog with someone who when you tell them these are your needs, they would say no they aren't.

That sounds like the story in Patricia Evan's book, Controlling People where the mother keeps telling the daughter that she does or doesn't like certain foods or things.

Any person would not feel heard and/or respected if others keep telling them that they don't really mean what they say.

If he says those are his needs, he likely means that to his understanding of the needs. He's put it out there, and now she can ask him to give examples. Perhaps examples of when she's done a good job of meeting the needs, or examples of what he would like to see. Not to mention how does HE define the things he's ranked highly on the survey.

So I caution against dismissing his stated list of needs. I suggest that it be used to engage in a deeper dialog, as I said initially.

No arguments, simply suggestions for the OP. She can take them, or leave them.

This is 100% honest. I've clearly stated my goal here is to help others. If you are unwilling, or unable to take that recurrent statement at face value, there isn't much more I can offer.

I still believe your baseless accusations violate the TOS here.

I never suggested that she do that.

If you hadn't taken issue with, and now distorted, my suggestions, which come from my personal experience and knowledge of MB coaching, I wouldn't have had anything to say to you EE. You objected to what I wrote. If you do that, I will respond.

Anointed,

I'd love to hear how you are doing! I am hoping that you can see a loving, caring relationship begin to develop, and hoping your H begins to work on the skills he needs to learn. You are doing your part to create a mutually enjoyable marriage, and I hope he responds in kind.

~ Z