I think this is why it is especially important to have a plan you have confidence in. When you lose confidence in yourself, you still have the steps to follow that you can grab onto - like a ladder in the pool when you are tired and feel like you're going to drown. And that ladder is there whether it's personal recovery or marital or both.

(I like using that analogy because it's something my H said I was to him...)

Edited to add... lots of good stuff here on these past couple of pages - I'm just out of time to comment on it all!

My changes began with a change in my attitude.
Asking God to take the wheel, because I was wildly all over the road and crashing into things. I knew I was causing more damage, and I knew I had to stop (for my own sake), but I did not know how.

Please, remember, this was all pre-MB forums.

My feelings were just like every other BS. Helplessness + anger = one crazy lady.

The first behavioral change I made was to become quiet and shut-the-hell-up! My 'rocks' were verbal.

My belief in my God was briefly shaken, then grew stronger.

This is why I asked you about your timeline.

It is my opinion ~~~> that if the BS has created a never-ending impenetrable wall keeping their husband/wife at a distance ... then they should divorce. Especially if years have past and the FWS has done every effort asked of them.

Like MBer Krazy ... his wife did the right things reaching towards recovery, but Krazy finally came to the conclusion he could not ever lower his defenses and allow himself to become vulnerable to love his wife again. In those circumstances, it is kinder to divorce than live in an ice house. IMO, Krazy did his wife a favor. He tried. He could not. He acknowledged he could not. He filed for divorce. IMO, his divorce was an ethical choice. He was honest. He did not fail. He tried.


The wall of protection may be used as a weapon .... if used dishonestly to keep the FWS in a forever limbo.

My God.
I surrendered my pridefulness.

TRUE !!!!


Cool phrase.




Also, figure out under what circumstances you can trust yourself.

Wonderful! Thanks.


awwwwwwwwwwww

I call a "time out" on this. (picture me, wearing a striped referee shirt, making the "T" sign with my hands)

Your H is allowing you to do things FOR HIM but not accepting love-bank deposits in order to build a loving relationship with YOU.

I call this dishonest bullcrap. I don't call it "protection". Protection is Plan B.

DoNoMo got the quote I liked
Recovery really begins when you can trust yourself

Let's take the other partner out of the picture, Plan B as it is practically used.
There is where the resentment lies, within yourself about yourself. Also the evidence of trusting what your spouse says about 25% of the time and what strangers 50% makes sense too

I love the quote made to BobPure also Pep

So where does healing and strength begin? It's within yourself

Many marriages can be healed at the same time, but separating the subjective from the objective is a nessesary process that takes time

"How could I have been such a fool? Why did this happen to me?" Ask god and his counselors
"Why did they lie? Why did they cheat?" Ask the cheating spouse or thier counsellors

Trusting yourself comes first

Thanks for this thread Pep may God continue to richly bless you

Oh just picked up on it that you healed your affair issue Pre-Mb Pep

Much like what drew me to Dr H and the forums, when I read about plan B and had accually done it myself years ago.

Just makes sense huh?

Them aliens

My God. I surrendered my pridefulness.

As I try to interpret this, you were able to subordinate your resentment of, and innate distrust in, WH to your faith that He would protect your interests?

If so, I'm impressed (obviously not for the first time!), all the more because that would have been impossible for me to accomplish. I know that because I tried it.

The problem that kept raising its head was that I knew that bride and I had made all the sacred vows in His presence on our wedding day. If to Him was to be ascribed the ability to ensure/assure bride's fidelity in the FUTURE, what failure caused Him to not attend to that detail in the PAST? (Let's not even open the discussion of the impossibility of failure on His part!)

Please don't take this discussion as my doubting that it worked for you, or might not work for others. I just cannot envision ever having enough personal faith in the Almighty/spouse linkage to trust it.

Not exactly.
I surrendered that I did not know what I was doing.
I was lost.
I was going to need His guidance.
I had faith that I would make better choices because He was going to slap me around (or, gently guide me if possible) if I made wrong choices.

Mr Pep could have gone off to fly flaming poo kites in the pouring rain .... for all I cared at that time.

I was focused on myself and my need for His Grace.

Yeah I hear ya NG
For years I had said when I got to heaven I had a bone or two to pick with God
" You said this, and allowed that, WTH?. I did all you asked and was ready to die for it, but you leave me like a fool in this world? You better have an answer!"
Such is the male response

Seems like I was right years ago when I left her because she drank. Not bringing in God at all, just common sense and survival.

Yeah heard it all then too, eventually I would be OK, but I needed support and didnt look for it because of pride as I hardened my heart

That doesn't work either because our hearts were not designed to be hard. We eventually fall again for what my friend called then," The tender trap"

In my case I went out to find zactly what my wife had done, with all the same bullcrap, like we warn others here when they think,"I just am so lonely and need to be loved" what a sucker, and falling into that set ME up for a false recovery with my wife. Which turned out to have deadly consequences as you know
The game of love, where the cards are stacked in Gods favor" Who is first shall be last"
The resentment takes years to overcome, and as two years approached when wife was clean and things looked up, I was still processing the resentment from the past, when it all started again, but now we were going to church, involved with ministy out saving souls and of course it would be alright, God was looking out for us, forgivness was the answer.
So I personally went for round two of the suffering savior role. Or round three, lost count

When will we realize Christ allready died so we could have life and stop trying to mimic him?
We own resentment and it's a hell we embrace as just compensation for wrongs done to us that in some way I guess we asked for

This is a very sad image WPG. A BS has the right to walk away..but stand still and build a fortress? How woefully depressing for all concerned.

If my H comes to repentance after a D, I will not walk with him. But not because I am walled in to the mountain, but because I have already walked away in such a fashion he cannot follow. And that is kinder. He can heal and close his lovebank for me (even if it is just the cake-eating kind) without me there.



No matter what the past, two people are needed to make a couple. One person cannot be asked to give and give.

That is the dangerous deception resentment tries to con the betrayed into 'Get whatever you want! On demand! They OWE you!'


Its OK short term, but not forever.

Yeah Indie you got it
Even the passion and self seeking anger of resentment wanes after a time, and what a waste of time
We are spiritual beings and we gotta ne honest about that, our emotions are running our lives
So it's no wonder when Peter walked on the water in the bible, ( the water being in many beliefs to be like our emotions and simulates them in us), that when he became aware of what he was doing, he plunged back into it again.

The emotions don't think, they react. They make little sense

Building that fortress is natural for men, like the mancave, but women do it too when they seek shelter

Thanx, Pep. I think the concept made it through the casaba this time.

You weren't expecting Him to assure WH's new fidelity;
you were putting in His hands your welfare regardless
of whether or not WH got with the program.

Hmmmmmm......I have to think on that one.

WPG:

Your H is allowing you to do things FOR HIM but not accepting love-bank deposits in order to build a loving relationship with YOU. I call this dishonest bullcrap. - Pepperband

This is kinda the issue I've been anticipating discussing with you on your thread. In essence, there are only four "Plans" open to a BS, long-term:

Plan A, Plan B, Plan D, and Plan M.

I'll wait for you.

Me? WPG?

I'm a little thick this morning.

Edit to add:
Plan A is not supposed to be long term.
By "Plan M" I think you mean marital recovery, am I correct?
Are you posting from mobile device?

No, you're not thick, Pep. I was trying to get a point to WPG. From her posting on her thread, she got it.

Yes, I know Plan A is not really long-term. What I should have said was steady-state, as in "once all the oscillations stop".

And Yes, Plan M is "Plan Marital Recovery/Marriage".

An excellent show that the Harley's talked to the BW and WH. You could still hear the resentment (understandably so) in the BW's voice. Also Dr. Harley explains how if he didn't live by his EP's he would've been just like the WH.

Radio Clip on a BW and WH married for 38 years and he had an affair for 8 years
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4
Segment #5

Another excellent two part series. The callers back in May after the BW just found out about her WH's affair from 6 years ago.

Radio Clip on Affair from 6 years a...ly friend and BW just found out about it
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4