(Con't from To Tattoo or not)

NOW, one thing I want to make clear to y'all, and I am sure H would back me if he were here... I/We haven't been sitting idly by these past 10 years. Contrary to what some of you think *cough, cough Melody cough, cough* I have accomplished a lot with my counselor, and so has he.


I intend to buy this book for her so that SHE can help others even more than she has helped us.

H has already come back out here, he is aware (I hope!!) that I am serious about fixing things... there are other dynamics involved, such a long story and *yawn* I just got up... I know I did the right thing by coming out here yesterday, I guess I had NO IDEA that you all would INSTANTLY reply with such vehement feelings... It was a bit of a shock actually, LOL, but now that I slept on it, a good one. I see that we became lackadaisical and lazy. Procrastination is a HUGE... MASSIVE...ENORMOUS problem for us. In ALL areas of life. I feel now, and have often felt in the past, that if I am not the one reminding us of what is important, keeping us on track, then it won't get done. I will have my "blow-up" and H will see that I am serious, but then after a while as the storm blows over, all the LB's come right back. this is such a pattern that right now I am tired of riding the merry-go-round. I simply know how the ride will end and I am not having fun on it anymore. PLEASE... YES, I KNOW I HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY in this marriage.. I KNOW that is it work, for ALL time, love is a choice, etc,etc... BUT I CANNOT DO IT ALONE!!! and :') I DO see that I LB, and that I need to be accountable for MY actions. I guess I also need to have somewhere to let the hurt and pain out... As Markos said, I need to stop bowing and scraping. That is a very blurry line for me, at THIS point...I need a correction on my prescription to see where my healthy limits should be. I am tired of hanging my head and walking on eggshells. I do not do this as much as I used to, but I SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT AT ALL....!!! He is my H, not my keeper, my teacher, my superior, my elder, my *insert appropriate adjective*... I shouldn't feel inferior to him and yet I do, all the time. When I try to bring it up I get "Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, that is not my intention", and like I said, a little change for a little while then... old habits come back. I VERY much feel, right now, that it is MY turn, that I am the one who gets to have what I want... I guess the new term (for me) is the TAKER in me is screaming out...

So suggest away, I am here and will read and learn. I now have to go shower and get ready for church. I'll see all of you later...

MrsWLD, the reason we think you are not in recovery is because a successful recovery involves changing the HABITS in your marriage. That has not happened here. Anyone can read from your first post that you and your husband engage in a plethora of lovebusters, ie: your IB, disrespectful judgements, and he with his angry outbursts. That is not a recovered marriage. In a recovered marriage, those bad habits have been eliminated. That is not the case in your marriage.

Keep in mind that I have been here the same length of time as you so I KNOW what recovery looks like.

It looks to me - and others - that you instead spent time with a "counselor" who believes it is worthwhile to waste time examining your "childhood" and who believes you should ramrod your husband into accepting a tattoo despite being told he HATES tattoos! You can argue she is a good counselor, but all one has to do to see that is not true is look at the RESULT. The proof is in the pudding!

I am not saying this to be harsh, but to help you see that a) your marriage is not recovered by MB standards, b) your "counselor" has not been successful and does not understand how to help you and c) that we CAN help you do it right this time.

We have couples who have been here 6 months who are farther along than you and your husband. We CAN and WILL help you get there!

But, you won't get us to agree that you have accomplished anything with this unqualified "counselor."

What has happened is that you are in the habit of sacrificing your happiness for his. This is a renters strategy and is bad for the marriage. As you can see, sacrifice leads to RESENTMENT and leads to a destructive attitude that says "By God, I have given and given, now it is my turn to take!!" It creates an entitlement atttitude that leads to destructive behavior like adultery and getting tattoos!!

Renters always keep score and when the score is not even, they resort to demands and independent behavior. That is what you are doing.

But you can't blame your husband for your part in this dance. You contributed to this mess by engaging in the practice of sacrifice. You are both responsible.

If yuo had been using Marriage Builders all along you would have eliminated lovebusters and you would not have engaged in sacrifice. As you know, Dr Harley is adamant that one not SACRIFICE.

Now, not getting a tattoo is NOT considered a sacrifice. And since you say you are familiar with MB I will let you explain why!

The first, off the top of my head reply, is that this is a huge LB for him that does NOT fill an EN

Please stop bringing up my counselor, I am WELL AWARE of your opinion,
Thank you.

*YOU* brought your counselor up. I was responding to your first post on this thread. I will be bringing up your bad counselor when I see fit.

MrsWLD, ask yourself if Dr Harley, a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Buiilders with a PROVEN track record, would approve of your counselors methods? Dr Harley is immensely more qualified, wouldn't you agree? So why wouldn't you look at the results you are getting and then compare how he would counsel you to what you have been getting?

I will just tell you right now that Dr Harley would disapprove of what your counselor is doing and point to the current state of your marriage. Doesn't that mean anything to you?

MelodyLane:
I have come on here for help. I am admitting that some of my behaviors are in need of correction for a happy healthy marriage. I know the mistakes that I have been and am making. I am politely asking you to BACK DOWN a bit. I understand that you are here to help me and others and I appreciate the help. I am asking that you be a little less "YOU did this, YOU didn't do that" and a little more suggestive of things that I can do. You have good advice, however the manner in which you are coming across keeps putting me on the defensive... So, again with a big PLEASE, try to find a way to not be so... in my face, harsh... not sure what the right word is. I can only tell you that your posts make me defensive and hope that you can find another way to come across as you have great things to say...
Thank you!

I see someone who is so busy defending herself that she isn't getting the point. This isn't about ML's approach which is perfectly fine. You control whether you get defensive or just... listen. And for the record, you're hearing the word YOU a lot because YOU came here. ML isn't invading your living room.

My suggestion is you take a thoughtful look over what has been said over your two threads. Your marriage isn't in the state you want it to be because what you're doing isn't working. That includes a whole host of things including your current counselor. I'm sure you like her and she does something that makes you feel good. But she hasn't helped you fix your marriage, just helped you communicate better with your H which is all they're trained to do aside from childhood naval gazing. If that's what you want, cool beans. But I think you came here for a MB perspective and that's exactly what you've gotten. I suggest you listen and digest rather than fire back. ML and everyone else has taken the time out of their day to help you. That's something no one has to do.

Travis

MrsWLD, I am not convinced you are aware of the problem, which is why you are getting so defensive. You have already decided what the problem is or isnt and are not open to objective views. You just dont like WHAT is being said.

My suggestion would be to try and keep an open mind. That is really the only way you are going to learn on this forum. Folks here really do want to help you, but you might have to hear some uncomfortable truths. You just have to be open to that. Let me know when you are open to that.

I LB, I make decisions without using POJA, I waste my time on the past in counseling, instead of looking to the future, I am disrespectful, I haven't changed any of the bad habits that put me in this position...

I am also hurt.... My taker is very much in charge here, I see that. I see that I have work to do... Where do I go if I need to vent? If I need to just get things off my chest? It would seem that I am not allowed to defend myself here, as that is putting my head in the sand. So I guess I do that a lot. BUT I AM HURTING!!!!!

Is there a different site on this forum that I should go to? I am ready to do the work, I GET IT... But I would rather feel a little more supported and less pointed at. Call me defensive, fine. But I get this at home. Am I not in recovery? YOU BET I'M NOT. I understand. I DON'T understand why I am not "allowed" to ask someone to be easy.Rome wasn't built in a day, I only just re-started this process yesterday....

I ALSO want to point out that THIS post has a much better "feel" to it.

Yes... I guess part of me is arguing here and being defensive here BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T DO THIS AT HOME AS THEY ARE UNHEALTHY BEHAVIORS. But the anger is so pent up, I have to let some steam off before I can move forward...

Again, do I belong in a different forum??

Believe me, you are on the RIGHT FORUM! You are getting the absolute best support you can get. You just don't realize it yet. Venting will not help you; having a serious plan of action WILL.

I encourage you to stop focusing on "tone" and start focusing on CONTENT. Quality support is completely contingent on the content, NOT the tone one uses to express that content. That will get you much farther, I assure you!

*CRIES*

I hate this...

ok, are you ready to get to work?

*stomps foot*

*folds arms across chest*




*sighs*

yes

You've had a counselor for all these years. And now you're here. Does that not say something about your counselor?

okay! Here we go! Buckle up!

You really, really need to start on lovebusters FIRST. That is because nothing is going to do any good until you get those under control. And I do mean BOTH WAYS!

So your first assignment is to get the book Lovebusters [2 copies if you can] and do a chapter each night. You read the chapter in your book and he reads the chapter in his book. You highlight things that important to you in PINK and he highlights important things in YELLOW. Then you swap books and look at the highlighted text.

Sit down together and answer the questions at the end of each chapter. Discuss the chapter. [without lovebusters, please!]

In the meantime, make a committment to NOT commit any lovebusters.

Download these 2 questionaires and fill them out. For now, exchange the Marital problem analysis when you done, but DON'T exchange the lovebusters questionaire yet. When you exchange the questionaires, simply thank your husband for his honesty. Don't get upset, angry, etc. But come here and tell us what was on each of your questionaires.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4506_mpa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4502_lbq.html

If there is anyway you can, it might be a good idea to also get the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love.[they sell it cheap here, about $11] because it has worksheets in it you can't get here.

I have been in AA for 27 years and at my FIRST meeting an old man told me: "you need to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth!" I was so mad!!

BUT... I was really serious so I came back the next week. ..