KG, I can't remember if anyone has asked you this, but would your wife be willing to post here?

Gamma, your posts about this continue to amaze me! Do you not understand the nature of an affair?? It's all smoke and mirrors! It's all fantasy!! This business you have trotted out about orgasms, etc, is all a distraction from what needs to be done to recover their marriage. Do you have some sort of obsession about the more salient points of what is just a tawdry aspect of an addiction? Would you be equally curious about how many times a syringe was used between heroin users?

You are often spot-on in so many of your posts - I am not sure why you have this inquistiveness about the number of orgasms, etc, that have NOTHING - ZERO to do with an addiction.

maritalbliss,

His wife is whathappened76.

I appreciate everyone that continues to respond and help me move on in the right direction. WW and I have had good days over the past week...I have refrained from speaking about the A and focusing on meeting her EN and ensuring that EP are in place. I am working hard on researching relocation, and have applied to 2 positions and awaiting a hopeful response. My WW relationship with her oldest daughter is not good right now. D continues to be short with W and actually gives her dirty looks often. Ww has took the stance that she is willing to work on relationship when D feels she is ready. WW told D that she is sorry for the damaged she caused the family and asked D for a second chance....D just feels tha if W loved H she would not have cheated, period. WW did post here early on, was hit pretty hard about A, which I think brought some things to light, but W still feels that she would rather follow MB principles by ready books, doing wb, listening to radio archivies and videos...W just feels that she has agreed to do all that is needed in the MB programs, but that info can be found on the site and in the books and does not need to be broadcasted for all to give their opi ion of... I disagree in a sense, but I dont want to force the issue if she is doing all other things....I have even told here that the worse is probably over...the people on the posts will see that she(we) are headed in the right direction and it would be a encouragment more than anything at the stage...thanks again...

Have you thought about you and your WW going on the show and asking Dr. Harley about your DD17?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Do you just send an email explaining your situation with a contact phone number?

And to "gloveoil" reply and many of you have read in my posts, YES, I did cheat almost 15 years ago at the onset of our marriage and right before our marriage. It hurt my wife the same. My unfaithfulness were one night stands with no emotional connection or talk...after the one night, it was done and I felt ashamed and ill. That maybe some of my trouble now with my wives A. How can one go back, and 4 times at that? I wanted to all but disown myself from the OW when I cheated. I did listen to Dr. talk about a longer term affair where EN were being met to be harder to "kill" vs one night stand type. Thats what I fear, no contact ever and a dead affair.

Hi KGaa12. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to bust your chops for your previous infidelity (I'd be the last person in line with any standing to do so). My point was about the addiction aspect of affairs. Maybe you didn't feel it in your case(s), but if you've read "Surviving An Affair," then you've read about how there is a wide range of levels of emotional connection. The implication of this is a very practical one for you & your wife, and that has to do with extraordinary precautions to ensure no more contact.

Midway through my own affair, before it had gone physical, I also felt a measure of revulsion at what I'd gotten mixed up in, and I knew it was no good. But I failed to take steps to cease contact. Kept seeing the OW at music rehearsals, kept taking her calls. You're right to view any potential contact as a major risk. It's what reignites affairs.

The good news, though, is that if you recognize this, you & your wife can take steps to prevent contact. Knowing every detail won't get you through this period & move you toward a better marriage. Once you know the basic facts of the affair, what will get you through is no contact. That will give the two of you breathing room as a couple, to attend to one another, without much less distraction & apprehension of the prospect of OM coming back into the picture.

Yes and if you include your contact info you can become a caller. They like it when both spouses are callers to get both perspectives.

They also want your mailing address so they can send you a complimentary book that will be appropriate to your situation. It is painless to be a caller, and it was helpful to my wife and I when we did it.

I'd like to say things are on the "up and up" but seem maybe on the downslide at times. Weekend was good for the most part, tried to make time together and traveled a short distance to grab lunch with the family away from our hometown. It just seems like a go good for awhile then thoughts of the A hit me and my mood changes. I try to understand the "why" and the "how" this all came about and how my wife actually did this to me. I feel like a fishbowl living where I am now with feeling like the OM could pop up at anytime or my WW is going to admit to me that they are once again talking. I think the biggest thing about the A is that when I first discovered it at the end of March 2012, my wife saw how devastated I was, sick over just knowing what I did at the time. Then WW provided me with all this assurance that I was everything to her and her and the OM were done....IT WAS ALL LIES! WW and OM met a last time in the beginning of May 2012, had a full blown PA and continued talking until all was finally disclosed July 8, 2012. This was one of things I verfied on the polygraph. (The last PA was at the beginning of May but they continued to speak via phone until full discovery on July 8, 2012) I know everyone is going to tell me that I need to quit thinking of the A BUT I just can't get past why my WW would return to OM after I found out she was in an A? WW saw how devastated I was just with the news I had then she continues to be with OM and have another PA? How is it any different now? Just becasue the A has been exposed and it is much harder for them to be together doesnt mean she doesnt wish she was, does it? When I ask WW she says she figured that because she already knew she had ruined her entire marriage and she had got nothing from the PA thus far, she figured she would have one last PA with OM and be done with him. I don't know...what the hell does a guy like me think? OK, I could deal much better with the fact she had an A, it was discovered by me, her husband, then the [censored] stops in its tracks. This issue is the cause of our fights and has all but caused us to divorce. Was she in love with this OM and just couldn't stand to be away from him. Was the sex good to where she had to have one last PA before she went back to her H? How does someone move on when it is so unclear why this reignited after discovery?

Ready for the big silver bullet answer to your questions?



Here it is:

There is NONE.

I asked myself these same questions over and over again my friend after my W�s 9mo A and 9 mo. FR. I know exactly how you feel. I can totally relate. It is gut wrenching at best. Absolute and complete Hell.

The only way I could even try (without much success) is to truly realize it was a SICK addiction. No better than a crack whore or drunk. Disgusting? Yes. Absolutely. Makes me want to vomit too.

Unfortunately for BS�s like you and me, this is our reality and what we have to live with. No way around it my friend.

Here is the silver lining; at 7mo�s into our R, memories of the A are starting to wane ever so slightly. Slightly yes but much better than not at all. Hang in there my friend. Try to keep your mind busy with whatever distracts you � pick your poison. Obsessing on the details is NORMAL but unhealthy at the same time.

MB�s works if you use it. Not easy but it does work.

Of course you wonder if they will hook up again! That is totally natural after what she did. However wondering if they will does NOT mean they will.

FWW knows that any breach to EP�s and we are DONE. Period. So, in the end it is totally on her, not me.

What are your boundaries? Set them and stick to them.

Remember, you can only control yourself. She is going to do what she wants to do. Hopefully, it is the right thing.

One additional quick note...there is NO getting 'around it' or 'over it' you MUST work 'through' it.

See the difference? This was a hard concept for me at first.

The attitude I took was after finding out about the FR, I was done and ready for D.

What I am now allowing HER to do is this: I am giving her a chance to prove HERSELF worthy of ME.

I showed her I had changed before dday and during our FR. She knows I am for real. Now it is up to her to prove to ME that she deserves the marriage and our life.

See the difference? Where will YOU draw the line in the sand?

I just can't get past why my WW would return to OM after I found out she was in an A? WW saw how devastated I was just with the news I had then she continues to be with OM and have another PA?

KG, I haven't done this recently (all right, not today, anyway), but:

You, of the dozens of bleeding BSs here, have the most insight, the firmest grasp, of the issues you raise as "unanswerable"

YES, I did cheat almost 15 years ago at the onset of our marriage and right before our marriage. It hurt my wife the same. My unfaithfulness were one night stands with no emotional connection or talk...after the one night, it was done and I felt ashamed and ill. That maybe some of my trouble now with my wives A. How can one go back, and 4 times at that? I wanted to all but disown myself from the OW when I cheated. I did listen to Dr. talk about a longer term affair where EN were being met to be harder to "kill" vs one night stand type.

So spend a whole spit-load less time with your bewildered betrayed-husband schtick, and a lot more time recalling the "rush", the "excitement" you got from your tawdry ONSs (actually EN-satisfactions that you were not adequately getting from your BW), and how her system more recently was craving similar satisfactions (if from likely different ENs) that your wife found it impossible to resist.

You could not refrain, knowing how it was destined to devastate your new bride, and she failed on her part, harming you, for the same reasons: unmet ENs alternately sourced because of crappy boundaries toward opposite-sex relationships.

There - BOOM! - is your answer. Now stop the distracting navel-gazing, and pity-party hosting, and get to work ensuring it never happens again, by EITHER of you.

(GOD! That felt gooooood!)

I just want sooo bad not to leave any stone unturned in the recovery process and fear the worst result being losing my wife, who I love very much. My WW and I have had a hard few months. WW knows what she did and the damage her affair caused everyone. For the first time tonight my WW admitted to the affair being an "addiction".WW even told me that when her and the OM were speaking that they both agreed how addictive eachother were in the affair. My wife remains consistant, saying it was the conversation and feeling of importance that was the source of her addiction. She even said that right up to the point of the NC letter being sent she still had her own doubts if she could refrain from conversing with the OM had she been approached by him. WW expresses how the door for the OM is now slamed shut. W says she looks at OM as a cause of problems and desctruction to me and family. WW says that after the NC letter was written and sent she felt as if it was OVER and understood the EP's and why they needed to be in place. Of course all of this scares the crap out of me! But at the same time it is also reassuring that my wife has basically admitted to her addiction, realizes that it was in fact that, and can better avoid it and is out of the "foggy" affair mindset. It is a bridge that I think was worth mentioning crossed.

I spoke with MB via phone today and went over all they had to offer including the coaching center. I am not sure what will benefit our marriage the most and where my money should be invested?...(5) sessions with S. Harley or the online program.

As most of you know we now have HSHN/LB/SAA and the workbook. We are working our way through this daily.

Out of all the pain the A caused, the biggest fear I have is my WW and the OM making contact sometime in the future. It is comforting to know my wife realizes the severity of what recontact can do, but at the same time I feel as if I am just waiting for the "recovering alcoholic" to drive past a bar and possibly pull in. This is why we are heeding the advice of relocation, but as you know that does not happen over night.

Again from the previous posts, I know my focus must be on not discussing the affair BUT working on my wife's EN and UA. I know my J.O.B. but in her case I have all the EP's I can put in place and know maybe know is just that time you say to yourself..If it is meant to be and we follow this program to the "T" it's all I can do to ensure a successful recovery.

If anyone could give their opinion to where to best invest my money...(1) Coaching Center (2) Online Program...I appreciate the support and insight....

We have recently completed 7 sessions w/ S. Harley in private coaching and it has been beneficial. We have more sessions to go. I think we will need another 3 sessions at least. We have not had the on line program, but it does cover more than what we have covered so far in private coaching. That being said, my W and I needed to be a little more focused on certain areas of our relationship and thinking, and the private coaching was able to focus more on that for us. If you do private coaching, I think you may need to consider more than 5 sessions, IMHO.

KGaa12, I was going to respond to one of your earlier posts too but had a hard time going back to a life altering event for me when I was a much younger man. What I will say is I believe the only reason I did not turn my keys in early back then, is being convinced that I was not alone. Google 'footprints in the sand' He carried me ...

Kgaa, my vote would be the online program, because you will be assigned a coach who will take you through the entire program. You will be assigned weekly lessons, tested regularly, until you get through the program. You will have daily access to Dr Harley on the private forum to help you through any minefields. I think the phone coaching is good when there are motivation problems, but in your case, you would get the greatest benefit from the online program.

I think it would also be a distraction from your grief and will help you achieve a happy marriage FASTER.

If you look around the forum, many of the happiest marriages came out of that program. I know it made an amazing difference in my own marriage.

It happened because your wife was being selfish and only cared about herself. That is the how and the why. It had nothing to do with you. It diidn't mean she loved you less. It meant that she loved herself MORE! Don't try to understand it, it doesn't matter. What matters is what she is doing NOW.


Is it possible to move to another state so that you have a fresh start and can put this fear to rest?


Again, it does you no good to beat yourself up and dwell on these details. Believe me I know! She was a selfish wayward who's only thoughts were about herself! Let it go and work on yor recovery in the now.

~RQ