Remember this??


PS I would recommend the phone coaching. Kiss and I coach with Steve Harley and it is worth its weight in gold.

I am kicking arounf the online program. WW and I r focusing on our UA and keeping track of it...I may ultimatley try to use the money for expenses related to relocation instead of the online program....not sure yet...by far my biggest worry is recontact...and at this point I beleive it would be unintentional but neverless would still be..W understands the EPs and has agreed to tell of any sightings, attempts ect...the thing with relocation is it wont happen all too quick...I have several applications in out west and as many of u know, the market and economy are tough. I am trying daily because I would love to quit living in fear...but doing all I can...it is very hard for me to not bring up the affair to my wife, but I refrain most of the time because I have been encouraged not to...I just feel at times that I need living proof that W did not want to replace me with this OM, and if W would "cave" to any future temptation from OM...W trys to tell me she is doing all she can...She is abiding by EPs, followed all steps MB suggested, is willing to move if that's is what needs done, has no problem when I question anything relaed to her whereabouts ect....I dont think I can ask anymore from her atp this point? Thanks for the support...

Kgaa, what has to happen next is that you have to create a marriage that is much better than what you had before. That is as critical to recovery as no contact with the OM. Otherwise you will end up in a very crippled version of the pre affair marriage. If you want to see what that looks like, go take a look at some of threads of those who are still nursing deep resentments years after the affair. That is what happens when the present is not happy.

This is one of the reasons I recommended getting into the online program. You have a willing spouse so all you need is sme good coaching to walk you step by step through the program. The phone counseling is more for reluctant spouses or marriage with bigger problems. I think you would greatly benefit from the online program.

Thank you for your input. I read the "Foggbabble" post and it does really bring into light and reality what a WS is feeling no matter how much one convinces themselves that it is some other mindset. I can say this about my cheating episodes (15) years ago. I am obviously totally in the reality mindset now days, but it took awhile to see things for what I was really doing and SHOULD HAVE been thinking. Do you think this would be beneficial to print and show to my WS. She has come around much much more than weeks ago and like I've stated has commited to working on recovery in our marriage. I don't want to pour salt in her wounds, but I thought maybe sometimes you need to see what kind of thinking you actually convinced yourself was ok during the A...

Personally, I wouldn't bother. She knows how to find her way around the site and will find it if she is serious about educating herself. Also, it might be too soon for her to recognize the craziness of her actions/words.

Its been about a week since I've posted. Since then I have REALLY been trying to focus on a new realtionship with my WW and focus on conversation and spending time together. We both work so I have fit it in when possible. I know as of today I am beginning to feel the damage that this type of incident has on someone. I have been on an emotional roller coaster and I feel as if I have just hit rock bottom. I have been reading as much as possible in the Harley books, whcih at times helps to see the reason for affairs and what I was lacking in our marriage. My WW has done nothing wrong since I've last posted. EP's are in place and if she has had any contact with the OM I sure do not know it. I have as many safe guards in place as I can, but I am a realist and know if there is a will there is a way. I just feel very depressed. I can't get the thoughts of the PA out of my mind and keep reverting back to how in the world could she actually do this to me over and over. I feel she had to know how much pain and disruption this would casue to a realtivly good life minus a marraige that just could have used some work. I know for a fact that I could NOT handle any further contact with the OM. WW says no, and I have no reason not to beleive that. We are working the MB program, but to be honest that helps in every aspect of building your marriage but not taking the severe pain away that the affair caused. Do I want her to leave? NO, I love the person she was before the affair. I'd miss her and feel I gave up on the person I love. I am completly confident that we could now build a great marriage with the knowledge we have now. I just FEAR a rekindle, a small lie about recontact, even thinking she still has the desire to speak with this person hurts. I just don't know when to admit to myself that the pain is to great to have that level of confidence I need to focus on us. She knows I hurt and I don't know that ther's anyting really she can do. She is doing what I ask. I know many of you say RELOCATE. WW is willing and has actually taken steps to get that ball rolling. The fact of the matter is, it won't happen soon enough and the OM is always a lingering threat in my daily life now. My goal is to keep trucking along, but it's so hard to be the husband I always shoudl of been and that my WW actually deserved all along with the brutal pain of the A.

What is she doing to get the ball running to relocate?

How much UA time are you getting?

Have you been to your doctor for some ADs?

Okay, go back and re-read your recent thread. Now when you once again feel like asking, "Is it REALLY that important that we relocate, with all the attendant confusion and complexity?", you'll be able to answer with, "Yes, so I'll never have to write such a note detailing my fears ever again."

Not being on MB at the time, I never isolated the worry about recontact until I realized its absence after the POSOM himself relocated with great finality.

Update..got to speak on MB radio and heed some advise from the Harley's..we still are aggressively looking at relocation and in the meantime making sure EP's are solid amd I conduct my checks and balances. My BIG bone of contension has been bringing up the A to my WW. I have done this almost daily..My thought process has just been stuck in the mind frame that my WW lied to me soooo much upon D the A, that I feel as if I must continue to search for answersand reasons surrounding the A itself. DR. Harley advised strongly against this and said it will not help accept to withdraw love unit from my wife. I agree and feel sometimes thats why I revert to posting here. My single biggest thing in moving on past my wifes A is that I discovered in at the end of March 2012...It was then semi e posed, had no knowledge of MB principles. A girlfriend of my wife found out and our kids knew something was "not right". My wife cried and saw me at my lowest points. My WW told and had me beleiving that it was an EA that almost turned physical.We talked and argued for about a month. I thought there was more, she lied, but said her and the OM were done speaking. I like a fool confronted the OM, who actually told me that he was sorry and he would refrain from any further contact. Life went on and in the back of my mind I knew there was more. Thats when I found MB and knew what I was dealing with. I looked further and further into the A and discovered the TRUTH of the entire A. The part that stuns me and makes me feel at times that"when will this truly end" is that after my initial discovery on March 2012 my WW met with the OM one final time and had a full blown PA....this has been confirmed by poly and I can confirm with some degree of certainty that there has been NC since full discovery in first week of July 2012. Nc letter was sent by WW, and Eps put into place. A was exposed much more than at end of March....Why do I feel like I am forcing my wice to reamin with me? She says she loves me, never "loved" the OM, but admitts to a feeling of addiction because of the " power" and sense of importance it brought her....WW said she really enjoyed the conversation she had qith O, but never once thought of leaving me and knows she could never be ina " real" relationship with this OM. I have been focusing on her EN but just sometimes feel like I am trapping my wife to be with me when she was gaining so much happiness from the OM. I know my W is doing all she can now to follow theses principles and abide by Ep...I just sometimes look at her and really beleive that this OM made her happy....any help and guidance?

You actually have the option to solve your problem...and have had it for months.

I'm going to give you three possible futures, and you have to pick one. You don't get to imaginatively create a fourth, and you don't get to try all three out and then select your favorite. Ready?

OPTION ONE

You and your wife stay together. She spends her time with you trying to repair the damage she did, and over time, inevitably, your LB$ grows due to her efforts, and slowly but steadily her affair no longer occupies the largest chunk of your mental/emotional operations. Think "When Harry Met Sally".

OPTION TWO

You bring up her infidelity and deceit whenever the mood moves you. Your snide comments and disdain eventually move her to a state of apathy and disconnection that approaches yours. Your wallow in your misery, and she in her guilt, so neither take any action to recover the union. Think "The Night of the Living Dead".

OPTION THREE

This one may develop from #2, or can be approached directly. One of you pulls the pin on the divorce grenade, because doing anything else simply requires too much effort and innovation, and risk the other may do so first. You have the pain endemic to #1, without the balm of the spouse's efforts. Total devastation and agony results. Think "Dr. Strangelove".

There is a complicating factor to this game, however. While all BSs have the option to enter any of the three cases, I did not address the fact that #1 requires POWER of the BS, over the behavior of the BS. I've not seen evidence you have that quality. If true, your #1 will without fail slide into #2.

Okay, dude - make your pick.

Spot on, and I believe this should be a notable post.

You have all these options, but as NeverGuessed so eloquently shows you, they are not compatible with one another. And apparently Dr. Harley has explained the same thing, too.

You don't have to do everything that you feel like doing. If you want to have a good marriage, you have to constrain yourself and not follow every whim that strikes you.

I suggest you come up with a plan for what you are going to do the next time you are tempted to bring up the affair. Plan something different to do in response. Take your wife for ice cream, or something.

What day were you on?


You're not trapping anybody. She's a big girl and nobody is going to "make" her stay with you.

As far as happiness from the OM, regardless of what she says, this is very simple, although probably painful to hear:

Yes, the OM brought her happiness. So would heroin. Make sense?

We were on Tuesday.

Here you go.
Radio clip of KGaa12's call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Kgaa, the point of the program is to learn to make her happy in the same way. She fell in love with the OM because he met certain needs. That is how you create romantic love in your marriage. In order to create romantic love the FASTEST, you should spending 20+ hours of UA time per week meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. When you do that religiously for a few weeks, you will find yourselves falling in love with each other again..

People fall in love with each other because of the way the other MAKES THEM FEEL. I don't think your wife completely understands this fact.

What did you think of Dr Harley's suggestion to stop talking about it and get on anti-depressants?

And this is why it is so dangerous to live in the same town. Every time your wife runs into the OM, those feelings of happiness will be triggered and the affair will likely be resumed. Everytime her feelings are triggered, she will be back to day 1 of recovery.

The fact that she doesn't understand this should scare you. Dr Harley tried to explain this to her and I don't think she GOT that. She doesn't understand how vulnerable she really is.

She doesn't understand how vulnerable she really is.

I listened to the segments twice. My opinion is more negative than yours, Mel.

I think she DOES understand how vulnerable she is. Listen for her tone when she confirms they will be relocating. Does that sound in any way the model of a woman about to start a new life with her spouse, removed from the temptation of POSOM?

Dude, you can't get out of there soon enough!

Well you guys have offcially scared the %$#@ out of me! My WW after hearing her weeks ago compared to now is talking MUCH more sensible and realistic about the entire affair. We are both trying to get the relocation thing rocketed ASAP, but we do have children to think about in reagards to income, jobs, housing and schools. We are looking in the SW part of the country. I saw one of the posters is from Utah? Any insight on a great area to live there? It scares me very much that it is the opinion of many here that my wife is not getting it and in a blink of an eye this whole thing can be rekindled. Does it make any sense that early on in our relationship when we were together (when I cheated and we separated) she began a relationship with another guy. Completly understandable, but anyway, we ended up back together and our marraige moved onward. This guy and my wife for that matter had what I would say was a good relationship. My wife said that she beleived this man was in love with her and she had "feelings" for him. Long story short, her and I reunited and moved on. My wife ran into this man, who is now married, a few years back. He did his best to avoid her as he was uncomfortable seeing her. They crossed paths and spoke briefly. NOTHING to her credit was rekindled and they both just went their separate ways. Also when I had cheated in the past, it was a "one night stand" with a woman who worked in the same building as me. I didn't want anything to do with this woman after the PA. My point is that we continued to work together, I avoided her as much as feasibly possible and nothing ever rekindled. It was over and we both knew it. I understand fully that in both of these past scenerios it was NOT the BEST way to handle them nor shoudl my wife or I expect to handle the current affair of hers in this manner. BUT I try to give her a little credit in the fact that she admits to the addiction of what the situation of the affair was doing for her. Also that she admits to the need of EP's and has agreed to follow them. She has agreed to move and is doing things to make it happen (i.e. job apps, house hunting ect...)She won't go anywhere without me, even the grocery store and if I can't she makes it a point to take one of our children. I just don't want to lose faith that she was in LOVE with this man. He made her feel important, showed her attention so oon and so on, BUT she knows that this is not a man she would want to be her husband or even ina serious realtionship with. There are many things that he did and said that offended her but she admits to liking the attention that she was not getting in her home and from me.

Kgaaa, I am so glad we scared the hell out of you. It concerns me terribly that your wife does not comprehend the risk and that you are trotting out these examples as reasons that it is OK for her to run into the OM. Willpower did not stop her in the past and it wont stop her in the future.

If you put a recovering alcoholic in the bar and put a beer in front of him, how long will he be able to hold out?

And if he sits there sitting staring at the beer and smelling the booze,what will be the ONLY thing he thinks about? Since he is tRiggered now, I assure you the only thing he will be thinking about is taking a drink. Every time your wife even SEES the OM, she will be triggered and will be put back to day 1 of recovery.

Please stop making excuses about why it's ok to be there close to the OM and accept that your marriage is in danger. Don't play around with this, my friend. Please be scared...very scared.

" I just don't want to lose faith that she was in LOVE with this man. He made her feel important, showed her attention so oon and so on, BUT she knows that this is not a man she would want to be her husband or even ina serious realtionship with. There are many things that he did and said that offended her but she admits to liking the attention that she was not getting in her home and from me."

The feelings your wife described on the radio are the definition of "in love." she was "in love" with the way he made her feel. That is the exact definition of "in love." we fall in love with people according to how well they meet our needs and make us feel.

Affair partners are typically people that would not make for good spouses; that is the rule, not the exception. That is WHY she is addicted and why you should move.