Yes, I've been in plan A for almost 3 years. Its been a struggle and we have had our moments where LBs have happened. But for the most part I am pleasant, kind, loving. Or we just avoid each other. She doesn't see it that way sometimes. She is still angry about the exposure and I am honest with her about my concerns about drugs, alcohol and men. Her response to that is anger and sometimes I shutdown for a bit after her outbursts. Sometimes I've become sarcastic in return. But not recently. Ive also said in my D paperwork that I don't believe she is fit to have custody. That incites her anger also. �I think for the most part my presence in the house drives her crazy. She mostly ignores me and does her own thing. She will answer a question when asked but really has no interest in discussions with me. I've tried. None of this really matters anymore. �I'm just going to be as loving as possible until the D is final and then go completely dark.� She can be extremely caring and loving. But none of it is directed towards me.

And there are days like today where we just tolerate each other. Each hoping this gets over as soon as possible.

Do you still have sex?

See, this is not marriage. Not around here.

One person logs a complaint in a respectful way and the other person respects it and does what they can to make the complainer feel more safe and comfortable. That's love. It's action and response. It's Care.

You're ww has manipulated you and controlled you with the grand-daddy of them all: the Selfish Demand. She has managed to become an expert at getting you to do exactly what she wants without you actually wanting to do it (e.g. shutting up and not complaining anymore).
That's my take from keeping track of your thread for a while. I am not saying you're perfect sbt. None of us are. I just feel she has the upper hand in this relationship like nothing I've ever seen and it just appears to be so harmful to you and your kids, I'm compelled to voice my opinion. I hate to think of another generation of kids growing up thinking it's okay to treat their spouse like yours treats you.

I don't know how much you know about MB principles. It's hard to tell from your posts. I hope being out of this toxic environment affords you time to learn and understand things at a new level so you can then understand more about how you (and your family) got to this point.

Goal: not ever gettng into a situation like this again.

*glad you changed your thread title back to it's original.
opt

I know quite a bit about MB principles. I've read the books. Early in the whole mess we did several phone sessions with Steve. We each assessed our emotional needs and love busters. When things started to get tough, she quit. In retrospect, the timing was wrong. She was still active in A and was mixing Vicodin and alcohol (I didn't know that at the time). We had no shot.

She does treat me very poorly. She has for years. You've identified one of my biggest fears in all of this. That my kids grow up thinking its ok to treat your spouse that way.

To be fair, I have had a hard time taking her complaints seriously. I try but in the back of my mind I find myself thinking "really? You are upset at me because you think Ive had an affair?". There have been times I haven't been able to keep a straight face. Then I hear how I dismiss her feelings. I honestly try not to but accusing me of an affair is about as crazy as it gets. To me it sounds like projection.

And in the larger picture none of that matters because there is something else in the way. I believe she has addiction/dependency issues. She doesn't believe that to be true and takes great offense to any discussion about it.

See, this is what concerns me about you SBT. We've suggested ways to deal with this in an MB way before and it seems to get right by you. I know you're an intelligent fellow, but it appears to me that you are simply so downtrodden you can't follow up on some basic ideas. Again, this is why I'm hoping you can get out of that environment and get another perspective, and start rebuilding yourself from the ground up.
The idea above would be that you can lovingly extend to your ww the offer of making her feel safe in the relationship by enforcing Extraodinary Precautions on yourself. You have nothing to hide, so let her follow you around. Give her all your passwords. Account for every minute; call, text and talk to other people in your lives throughout the day. "I know you think I've had an affair. While I assure you nothing could be further from the truth, I understand that somehow I'm making you uncomfortable and as your husband, the last thing I want to be is a source of discomfort for you. Please tell me how I can make you feel more secure in our relationship and lets work on this together. I want to have a relationship with you better than either of us ever dreamed possible." --- etc.

AS for past affairs (if that is the accusation), I believe the only way to deal with that is a polygraph. If you have nothing to hide, then you're all set. If you do, now's the time to get it out on the table.

opt

I don't know what it's like to live with an addicted person. However, I don't believe it's wise to let someone else's addictions influence your conviction to do something if you know it's the right thing to do.

IOW, having something "in the way" should be for the person with the addiction. It doesn't have to change the way you behave. Right?
She's addicted to something, okay, fine. I'm still going to conduct myself with integrity and grace.

I have some experience with alcoholism. My latest observation with these types of issues is that the devil has done a very very sneaky thing: he has made it so the people who are hurt most by deviant behavior (addictions, criminal behavior, promiscuity, pornography) are not the ones who are engaging in the deviant behavior. It's his greatest accomplishment in my view.

opt

Dr. Harley has said that if there are addictions, his program doesn't work. It's the first thing that has to go. I'm sorry you ran into the juggernaut.

Your kids are going to be okay, because when you get yourself in a place where you can put yourself back together, they are going to have someone in their lives with integrity, strength, vitality, truth and honesty, happiness, faith, and tremendous insight. They need structure and consistency more than anything; they are not getting that from your ww and I believe you can only provide so much of it at this time. The contrast will be obvious in a few months and continue to get stronger as the months pass into years.

When they grow up they will have a choice to make: do I want to be like Mommy or do I want to be like Daddy? 'Mommy's life seemed like so much fun -- drinking, drugs, "friends" galore. But she never seemed that happy and there was always so much drama and instability. Dad might have been boring in contrast, but at least he seems happy and put together.'
The choice will be easy. They will follow your path.

opt

I've tried this. Several times. She has no interest. I've offered that we both employ EPs. Her response has been that she doesn't want to be treated like a two year old and that I should trust her. When I suggest I shouldn't trust her she she says something like "there you go always thinking the worst about me". Remember that she now denies most parts of the A. She claims she just talked to him too much. She also said that the guys she talks to are just friends and I can't tell her who her friends should be. This then deteriorates into how controlling I am. To be clear, Ive never told her she couldn't have those friends. Ive said that it's best for our marriage that she doesn't.

As for the polygraph. I hadnt thought of that. That's an interesting idea. I may look into it just to clear up any doubt. I have nothing to hide.

It's unfortunately too late for most of this. I can't give her my passwords, etc. because we are in the middle of a legal battle over our parenting time, money, etc. I've said this since she filed and said she didn't want it. If she seriously doesn't want it then she needs to stop it. I can't see a way to rebuild trust when our attorneys are going at it. Your cant put a relationship and family back together while you are ripping it apart. At least I can't see how.

Here you go.
Polygraph Testing

I agree and disagree with opt.
I agree that YOU are responsible for your conduct and actions.

I would NOT give her any email passwords etc during divorce. Divorce is war. Generals do not think with emotions.

You need to be healed from living with an addict. We receive healing through the AlAnon program and working the 12 steps. The MB Plan A will not win over an addict nor will anything else. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and you need to protect yourself and your kids from her behaviors.

I encourage you to read a daily devotional, One Day at a Time in AlAnon. I read it daily for clarity

Also.
Take some parenting classes.
I took some from my county free of charge.
You n�e to fight for full custody and have a plan on how to be a custodial parent.

Regarding the legal fees, a Guardian a litem can save you lots of money.
A judge will follow the recommendation of the GAL.

Thanks. I used to read the Alanon blue book. I'll dig it out and start again.

Do NOT give out passwords or do a polygraph!

That's giving ammunition to the enemy! That would be really stupid! You are in divorce proceedings!

Im not giving her my passwords unless it is part of recovery and the D is off. I may talk to my atty about a polygraph for me if it may help my case. I wouldn't do it without my attys approval.

SBT, I think you got my point. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to hide.

Of course you wouldn't give your legal adversary access to your ammunition or legal documents needed to defend your position. If she wants you to do a poly, then she will clearly be willing to do one as well...

I don't believe a polygraph is admissible in court anyway. The offer is to make the point that you don't like being called a liar and a cheating scumbag without any evidence.

I think in this country the burden of proof is still with the accuser. As the accused, I should think the one pointing the finger would be responsible for paying for a polygraph test and then taking one themselves. In fact, I would demand it.
-- but she won't because she knows there would be four more fingers pointing back at her.

opt

I have nothing to hide.

SBT

DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT submit yourself to volunteer for any poly in the situation you are in.

That would be the perfect ammo for CPS-Human Services or whoever is invoved in your case through your WW to present "LOADED" questions that could be used against you with custody.

You will open yourself to all kinds of twisted questions that you may be pefectly innocent of but it will be percieved there is wrong doing in the past.

EXample: When did you stop abusing your children?

SBT: I did not abuse my children.

Examiner: Well when did you stop?

You could be seen as not cooperating or hiding something with this type of questioning. DO NOT GO THERE!!!

Percieved wrongs your WW has thrown at you will be twisted and used against you.

CPS or Human Services, and your WW are not going to help you at this point. If there is dirt they can drag out and even if it is only percieved and even if it is not ethical they will in a twisted fashion use your answers and use it agaianst you.

You will be greatly diminishing your chances for custody. Don't trust any of the three mentioned above to be your ally in this mess.

A Gaurdian would be the best option because you would be presenting your real life everyday interactions with the children. It may cost a few bucks but so does dragging this out with attorneys. Your WW would also need to have interaction with the GAL.

The GAL reports facts directly to the courts. Your really only going to get one good shot at this and time is winding down. Really consider the GAL.

I think HDW knows about this. Hopefuly he will also comment.

ETA:
In my brothers case the GAL taped exhanges at the GF's house unknown to either party as the GF complained my brother was harrassing her. All the GAL saw and taped was pulling up on the street-his DD getting out and going up to the house-when the door opened-Brother got back in his car and left. Where was the harrassing? My mom also sat in the back seat of the car unseen on every exchange. GF was confronted with the tape after she complained with specific dates. Took away a lot of her credibility with the court.

If you are such a danger to the safety of your own children why are you still in that house? In our state you would have been removed a long time ago if there was evidence to make anything stick.

nESRE

There is no evidence. Because nothing has ever happened.

I have a different question today. I checked our cell phone bill and she is texting a new guy in the middle of the night. Do I expose/confront or just move on with D and forget about it?